[Your View] Build Rules / Petty Theft

[lemonke 6014]

55 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

 

A cooldown on keys would only buff redstone doors, which are already extremely broken.

 

Mods absolutely need to nerf them, especially where more than one redstone door is used in a build.

 

There needs to be some mutuality here - there's no point of having a phylactery if it's virtually impossible to reach in any circumstances by virtue of being miles underground, beneath lairs and lairs of honeycomb iron doors, and as many redstone doors as the creator wants. 

It isn't even fair to break into an undead dungeon while no one is online or without a challenge since they are supposed to be dangerous places. You are offering no roleplay at that point, and it might be worse than people who put several doors and layers in their place because you're going on your way to mess with them in a non-interactive way. That might also be the reason why they do that—because peeps break in to steal and ruin their shit. Both sides are at fault, and no one helps in this cycle of paranoia.

 

 

I do think it's a huge problem with this server. It isn't just theft, but even people attacking others within a city's square when no one is around or breaking into houses when everyone is asleep. There should be some control or communication between the two sides, because it's quite unfun to deal with.

[squakhawk 14038]

i do have to agree a thing i’ve been bringing up since the previous mod admin's administration changes with war and such is that thief rp is the lowest bar of engaging or fun on the server because realistically the most that’s ever attained from it is 

 

“Oh, somebody broke into my thing while I was away yesterday. That sucks.” And you just have some annoying signs that are basically courtesies that no, your items didn’t glitch / doors didn’t break.

 

Being on both ends of this after once giving info to heist someone’s freebuild red stone hyper base and having my items stolen from me it leads to nothing and no roleplay has ever come of it other than OOCly going “haha remember that time we stole all that guys magic shit 3 years ago and he never found out” or the inverse of “Hey squak im sorry it was me that stole your medals a few months ago i thought they were special items but i saw they were just sentimental so i’m gonna give them back”

 

these are both real btw and not exaggerated for point like the person i’ve had both these convos with can comment on this like today he’s still active 

 

 

The only “heisting” or thief rp i saw that I liked vaguely was during my eventline when azdrazi were stalked up outside of the paladin base for 8 hours a day optifinr zoomed in so they could see which key blocks were being used and by what item. Even then, this isn’t rp, this is basically a bureaucratic barrier to do a goal or accomplish something that otherwise would’ve had roleplay

 

im not saying thief rp just is hopeless and sucks but it kinda does in its current state and just detracts from the server strictly by wasting time and effort and making these giant supercomplexes because people are so paranoid of losing items and structures for what ultimately is going to be someone who just stores the stuff they steal in a giant paranoid supercomplex.

 

I think the door merge is a fine idea (Rounding down the numbers is a weird choice but whatever) but the current grounds we have for heists and petty theft just adds nothing to the server and is mostly an adhd stim for people (esp new players, i was a victim to this) when they have nothing to do at 1am that only takes away from rp and fucks up the server mentality a lot. i’m not saying we should give up and remove it i just think effort is best spent reinventing the idea on those and committing to a direction instead of sticking to something like what we have now.

[FlemishSupremacy 6115]

4 minutes ago, squakhawk said:

The only “heisting” or thief rp i saw that I liked vaguely was during my eventline when azdrazi were stalked up outside of the paladin base for 8 hours a day optifinr zoomed in so they could see which key blocks were being used and by what item. Even then, this isn’t rp, this is basically a bureaucratic barrier to do a goal or accomplish something that otherwise would’ve had roleplay

Represent o7

In reality, it's true that thief rp is usually done in such a way to give as little ways to counter for the opposing side. On the flipside, the current systems make stealing something super difficult, too. Generally speaking, it's not a fun system for either side, but I'm not sure how you could alter it to alleviate the problem of having been stolen from without any recourse. I'm honestly not against removing petty theft altogether.

As for redstone doors, if they're allowed to be used for anything other than just vaults, they should be bypassable outside of heists. As Squak mentioned above, I did stakeout for 8 hours a day to get an idea of a key for the paladin base. If we entered their lair once, however, they could super easily change the key (they had atleast 2 keychanges to that door during the eventline alone), and we'd be back to stakeout for 8 hours hoping a paladin would obliviously walk up and open the door. 
There should be a way to bruteforce these doors open like every other door, because had that paladin door not been on the outside of their build, we'd have never been able to legitimately ascertain the key.

[Xarkly 17299]

1 hour ago, lemonke said:

It isn't even fair to break into an undead dungeon while no one is online or without a challenge since they are supposed to be dangerous places. You are offering no roleplay at that point, and it might be worse than people who put several doors and layers in their place because you're going on your way to mess with them in a non-interactive way. That might also be the reason why they do that—because peeps break in to steal and ruin their shit. Both sides are at fault, and no one helps in this cycle of paranoia.

 

 

I do think it's a huge problem with this server. It isn't just theft, but even people attacking others within a city's square when no one is around or breaking into houses when everyone is asleep. There should be some control or communication between the two sides, because it's quite unfun to deal with.

 

I think the most reasonable thing here is to just relegate chest theft back to heisting (which must occur during peak hours) since that seemed pretty balanced.

 

Otherwise, though, I think it's kind of silly to suggest a hypothetical attacker has to contend with unlimited redstone doors (anymore than 2 is virtually uncrackable in a single heist, after which the defenders can just change the key), and X iron doors in an underground compound WHILE defenders can charge a mega magic death laser and whatever alch potions as you try to pick a door.

 

'Offlining' came into being because most of these places are so well defended and they would become even harder to breach if actively defended. Bearing in mind, though, you still must heist at peak hours.

 

It's sort of a chicken and egg situation in terms of defenses being jacked because offlining is a thing, and offlining because defenses are jacked (the balance does lean in favour of defenders, though, because of heist times).

 

Make it so chest theft (or at least signed item from chests) can only happen during heists during peak hours, and nerf redstone doors.

[Crevel 7557]

Can we make accessways to buildings where they are only accessible by going through an underground ladder locked by a trapdoor illegal? It is anti-roleplay to see a barn or some other building with no doors but has a trapdoored ladder hatch going underground to get in and out. I feel like it should be a common sense rule in the same vein of farms needing to have a logical supply of oxygen and tunnels needing to have visible supports that would prevent cave-ins. I've only seen this a handful of times myself recently, but I expect it's more common than I'm seeing.

[Ninjay 1184]

Just thoughts from a 2am dollar store bandit.

 

Iron doors are already painful to get through, mainly because if someone does a build with security against heists in mind, it can easily be made nigh-impossible to heist into without either extreme luck, a huge amount of lockpicks being made and enough people to bring them all on a heist, or a combination of the two. And if there is only one entrance to some specific location and any of the doors on the way in jam, then you’re out of luck until the heist cooldown wears off. And that's without factoring redstone doors in. So please, I beg, do not buff wooden doors.

 

Redstone doors I legitimately have no idea what the best implementation of them would be, though I am very much of the opinion that they should be openable at any time as long as their current mechanics remain unchanged. Locking them to only be pickable during heists would just remove the ability to ever legitimately obtain information on what is beyond the door or ever get inside except during heists.

As they currently are, the only way one can find and get through them without outside knowledge, getting very lucky, or going through every possible item, is via some less than roleplay friendly means. I understand and like the idea of hidden doors to places, but I really have no idea what a happy middleground would be between making things almost nearly impenetrable and too easy to break into. It might be something that requires a complete rethink or overhaul.

 

This is not 100% on topic with the original post, but moreso to address the complaints some others had; petty theft does not really need to be nerfed or made more difficult at all. As it is, you have to spend a large amount of resources to craft lockpicks if you want a half-decent chance of getting through any doors. Then, if you manage to do that, you still need a good enough roll to get a chest open (and a mod online to handle this). Finally, assuming you picked a good chest with actually valuable items in it, you are allowed to take:

“up-to one-half (rounded down) from a single stack. You can only loot one slot, per target chest. In effect, this prevents unique (singular) items from being stolen.” per petty theft guidelines.

At best you’re getting knowledge of some actually-valuable unique items being present in a chest along with half a stack of some other resource that can likely be farmed up easily enough on your own, at the cost of what you spent to make the lockpick. At worst you’ve just wasted your time and lockpicks.

If you really don’t want to have stuff stolen, then be attentive and lock your shit. As long as petty theft exists, it’s something that is only as big an issue as you allow it to be.

In terms of not having any rp (for both petty theft and heists), when it comes to stealing, taking things without getting caught is typically the point. I don’t know how you’d be able to make stealthily stealing things into an actively interactive experience for both sides without moving into highly unrealistic territory like mandating evidence being left behind or something.

One thing I can understand being annoyed at is breaking glass. For that, would it be possible to update whatever plugin is responsible to eventually repair whatever glass is broken? It currently places signs in the glass's place, so I imagine this would be something within the realm of possibility.

Edited July 10, 2024 by Ninjay

[tasty_cheesecake 2298]

they don't know i can build a door with more than 800 possible keys

[Spoopy_Duck 3217]

9 hours ago, Crevel said:

Can we make accessways to buildings where they are only accessible by going through an underground ladder locked by a trapdoor illegal? It is anti-roleplay to see a barn or some other building with no doors but has a trapdoored ladder hatch going underground to get in and out. I feel like it should be a common sense rule in the same vein of farms needing to have a logical supply of oxygen and tunnels needing to have visible supports that would prevent cave-ins. I've only seen this a handful of times myself recently, but I expect it's more common than I'm seeing.

yes

[haenselover45 834]

remove redstone doors

[MayRndz 1830]

11 hours ago, Crevel said:

Can we make accessways to buildings where they are only accessible by going through an underground ladder locked by a trapdoor illegal?

 

Were already supposed remove rat tunnels unless people take the time to make the tunnels appear “roleplay friendly”. 

[Liam5232 450]

I think the key signs should be removed. having to right click a random block with a lever makes it near impossible to discover, and that, in my opinion, is very much unfair.