[✗] [Amendment] Voidal Feats - Mental Effects

[_AzureLexi 771]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Just out of curiosity, why wasn’t voidstalking involved in this? That feat has some pretty severe mental affects

Because voidstalking doesn't refer to any real-world diagnoses, only symptoms. (And Second Mind, which is very much a fantasy-exclusive affliction)

Edited August 30, 2024 by _AzureLexi

[Satyrdays 222]

I am a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic with BPD, GAD, depression, etc. There have been more time than I could count where the disorders I suffer from are used as a joke on this server, specifically schizophrenia. This disorder which has greatly affected my life in ways I do not wish to share has been, time and time again, boiled down to being "crazy", "seeing things", "schizoposting", etc. I am incredibly uncomfortable with these portrayals and, of course, I would love for players to not do this, but no one can control what people find okay to joke about or funny. An amendment to the lore to get rid of medical diagnoses as examples of mental detriments will not change how people already inclined towards this behaviour roleplay them. People will continue, if they already found it fine, to portray mental disorders in a stereotypical and uncomfortable way. I accepted that soon after I was diagnosed that I have to be very careful who I tell as, crazily enough, these people will outright ask me for my experience so they can make their character "more schizo" (insane) or literally make fun of me when I barely know them.

 

What I'm trying to say is; this amendment, if it passes, would not change people's minds if they already portray mental illness incorrectly or offensively. That's a sad fact of being on the internet. This is just my two cents as someone affected by this, so I'd prefer no arguments in response. Thanks.

[_AzureLexi 771]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Just out of curiosity, why wasn’t voidstalking involved in this? That feat has some pretty severe mental affects

 

Edit because after thinking a little more I have some more points:

 

- All magics and feats have mental effects, because drawing power from an unnatural source has consequences. In real life taking steroids or other hard drugs can have terrible effects on one’s physical and mental health. A not exactly fair comparison, of course, but you get the gist. Why only focus on voidal feats, and not voidal magic itself? Or any other magic, FA, or CA

- I’m a psychology major. Hi. Not all mental disorders are portrayed in the same way. A lot of symptoms overlap, and people won’t experience the same ones. Additionally, many mental disorders are comorbid, so it would not be uncommon or unheard of for people with one disorder or mental illness to have multiple from the lists. Players can sometimes incorrectly portray mental illnesses, but sometimes they play them really well and just portray different symptoms in their character than someone else.

- Lowk trying to avoid anyone playing a mentally ill character sounds like a way to bubble wrap roleplay. Not talking about them or not having them in roleplay will, contrary to many people’s beliefs, make the stigma worse. In fact, if we see how these mental illnesses affect people in roleplay, whether or not they’re derived from magic, they can educate people! I know I’ve put a lot of research into my characters’ mental struggles.

 

All in all, I think having severe mental illnesses as consequences to taking up a magic is good, not just undiagnosable symptoms; it can develop characters or make them less heroic and “perfect” 2d characters. Just my 2 cents

Okay, seeing the edits now!

• I only touched on voidal magic and not other FAs and CAs, because I want to start small, and I am only really involved with voidal magic. If it passes, then I (or others) can move onto amendments for other FAs and CAs. The issue here is again, not the consequences themselves, but rather the use of real-world mental health conditions tacked on.
• My issue isn't with the mental consequences of voidal magics, or the portrayal of real-world mental illnesses/disorders (I've never played a neurotypical character myself, and I have played characters GAD, and CPTSD in my time around RP servers), but voidal magic causing real-world mental illnesses/disorders.  @xDK articulated some issues a lot better than I could, quoted below.

1 hour ago, xDK said:

1. For one thing, using real world mental health disorders as an explanation in a fantasy setting runs a real risk of reinforcing that these medical disorders are a “consequence” of your actions, which is incorrect and can be a form of systemic stigmatization that could lead to a real inner stigma of an individual.

 

2. We tend to also associate these conditions with a form of “corruption” for using voidal magic, this could lead to the idea that having these real world medical disorders are "wrong", which is also a form of systemic stigmatization.

 

3. Another thing is that, it is putting an ethical responsibility on players to correctly portray these medical conditions, since the players may create misinformation around that portrayal.

 

Edited August 30, 2024 by _AzureLexi

[kuebiko 686]

I get what this post is trying to say, but I dont think generalizing a mental illness or removing it by name is a particularly good thing. Yes this is fantasyland, however, I believe that mental illnesses would and should exist even in a fantasy world. They are real. Paranoia eats away at a lot of characters, and that manifests within the mind (as an example). As Pancho said, this amendment kinda comes off as censorship rather than advocation. People who want to be mean will be mean to those who suffer from mental illness no matter how you word it. For every person who doesn't do research and figure out what x disorder does, there's at least 3 others who do their research and come out better understanding of the disorder. By naming a disorder it presents an opportunity where someone who's likely unfamiliar, can go explore these topics.

 

Any ableism should be reported, and the subject needs to be treated with utmost respect. 
 

[xDK 1205]

I feel like the replies to this topic focuses too much on the ableism coming from an individual, rather than seeing it as a systemic problem. The issue that I believe the author is shedding light on, isn't about whether or not a player can avoid being ableist in how they portray mental health disorders. It's about how the use of real world medical diagnoses within a fantasy setting feeds into the larger systemic issue of stigmatization.

Stigmatization

The action of describing or regarding someone or something as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval.

 

Individual ableism refers to the single acts, speech, or attitudes that demean or discriminate against persons with disabilities. These can be personal prejudices or biases a person could show, either intentionally or otherwise.

 

Systemic ableism is embedded in policies, lore, and culture within the community, where people with medical diagnoses are portrayed as disadvantaged. What is most important, is that if something is systemic, it doesn’t require anyone to be individually ableist. This is because the system perpetuates the whole society in terms of stereotypes being created, or negatively viewed narratives.

If disorders are associated with corruption or the consequence of ones actions, then this lore may support a negative stereotype within the community, that these conditions are “wrong” or “avoidable”. It's not just a question of individual responsibility, it's about the lore of the server creating and perpetuating stereotypes. People should be more concerned with the ways the lore may be inadvertently contributing to bigger problems rather than how the story is portrayed.

 

This change feels like a no-brain solution to avoiding all this, it wouldn't even take anything away from the existing lore.
 

11 hours ago, kuebiko said:

Any ableism should be reported, and the subject needs to be treated with utmost respect. 

Unironically this is very well put, and I feel like this is what @_AzureLexi is doing.

[z3m0s 1957]

I think it'd be dope regardless to make fantasy mental effects instead of real one's, why don't we have cool oddball mental issues and oddities. Like what portion of people actually want to accurately roleplay disorders? I don't think that's a big enough deal we have to approve for it, why couldn't that be a personal character thing, and we have funny mental effects we make up, take em a bit more into roleplay, but they're strange rather than forcing accurate disorder roleplay. . . I dunno though I'm high.

[ProcaPro 559]

So, I am mentally ill, hi. I can say that shamelessly, from my POV when something like mental illness or portraying it is removed from roleplay it has the opposite effect intended: erasure. People will continue to roleplay mental illness, they will continue to be involved in it, and taking the name of the illnesses away from the scene does nothing but erase the knowledge that it IS a real thing.

 

If it's an issue with representation and proper useage, I've found that providing resources for people to understand what they're doing and/or encouraging good research before portrayals does a lot more for representation and all without completely erasing it from the public eye. Overall, I appreciate the time this must have taken, but there are better ways than deleting away the actual illness from the symptoms.

[kujo_ 2510]

i dont think removing the official names is gonna ruin or erase mental health awareness, half this server is on the spectrum. nobody should be diagnosing OCD because they learned voidal eminence. clearer guidelines makes people less likely to do something stupid.

 

from a game perspective, emphasizing symptoms over irl disorders is a great idea, it makes that kind of rp more accessible (expecting players to research these issues and portray them respectfully as a prerequisite to minecraft roleplay is fundamentally bad); medics can make their own fantasy dsm, guards can rorscasch spook test you, and magic becomes just a little more than combat spells. this post makes me think magics should have more defined, unique mental effects instead of picking and choosing from a grocery list of disorders

[Islamadon 9159]

This lore has been denied. You will be sent a forum PM regarding the reasons for denial within the next 24 hours.