The State of LOTC

[argonian 14254]

23 hours ago, Ryfin Chany said:

it’s also killing every other unique idea and identity on the server in favor of a relatively homogeneous empire that’s just a repeat of the same attempts done over and over and over again on LoTC from the history that others tell me from both sides of the argument.

A couple nations have gotten destroyed, most of whom either (a) actively pursued a hostile foreign policy against the Pontifical States (and BTW, housing literal demons from Hell is hostile and it's silly to act otherwise), or (b) previously invaded and destroyed Veletz (I still don't understand why the Church would care about this IC, but it does show that these nations were willing to go to war and destroy other people's nations, so they acknowledged that inter-nation conflict and playing-for-keeps is legitimate).

 

As for Empires having previously failed - well yes, that's what happens when you have a server for 15 years. We could easily take the same attitude and dismiss "diverse magic outcast nation #5786" or "wood elf fae ring harem nation #92325" as failed repeats of previous projects in order to delegitimise them or any RP done with the goal of creating or furthering such an entity. Is trying to repeat something that's done before a bad thing or not?

 

23 hours ago, Ryfin Chany said:

#2. I am aware of the length of time between Empires, but it doesn't change the fact that there've been 9 empires on LOTC (which IMO is a lot of empires to spread out over nearly 10 years). 

(1) The server's been around for about almost 15 years, (2) a few of those Empires are only counted separately because the dynasty changed and the Empire never actually fell, and (3) most Empires fell because the server allowed wars and intra/inter-nation to happen freely (to a much greater degree than today) - which is something you're actively trying to prevent.

 

So again, it's hypocritical to criticise a nation (or the concept of a nation, really) for having taken the L in wars when you're literally calling for war to be abolished because yours took the L.

[TysCreations 458]

Unlike loxy I don't have the best of ability to put my feelings into words or express what I mean expecially through text but when a good part of the community is constantly battered and bullied out of the map its NOT fun, especially for newer players, ik that politics are politics but when a whole community of people CRY OUT because of it something HAS to be done.

 

servers like this are supposed to be as fun as possible for EVERYONE not just a very specific group of people. Many of the places we put effort and time and love in are gone and yes as loxy said places rise and fall but 8 nations gone in just over a year is not sustainable,  not for how much starting a nation costs and even if we are able to start up a nation, with how one sided the server has become they will be squashed if they don't align with that nations ideals. Isn't making a nation because of different options the whole point?

 

Yes, it's realistic as loxy said but no, it's NOT FUN. The east, the Midlands and the heartlands have been steamrolled, that's not realistic nor fun. Especially when these wars are spured on by the same two groups over and over and over again, vikela, dunwen, lurin, vortice, aaun, cnor, hyspia, haenese, rinemar and now soon to be balian too, gone in just over 1 year by the same 2 major groups and seemingly more are to go. This server was once so diverse but now its one congealed mess.

 

Please, something has to be done. The sentiment 'rp is rp' will kill this server eventually if nothing is done. Please. 

[Yeetboy0206 1574]

1 minute ago, Navigator said:

If people got out of the forums and out of their fear of 'metaplay' to actually play the game, you could reshape the map too.

Nav, don't be like that. Nuker's one of the leaders currently reshaping the map in Celia'nor right now. But the fact of the matter is he doesn't hold the influence of an ST member OOCly and an 'Aengul' ICly. No matter how you cut it, Werew0lf has more power over the server by virtue of his position and the character he plays. A regular player can only do so much compared to him, and the effort to match what he can change is too immense for any one GROUP of players to accomplish in the same amount of time. That's not to insult Werew0lf or accuse him of anything, that's just the position he currently has and that gives him more power.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

Conflict is good for the server and frankly it gets worse in all regards the more you try to avoid it. Pick you flavor [Church Schism, John the 3rd who is near-identical to his great-grandfather Johnny the 4th who hates his neighboring lord, Elf v Elf Racism, Good MA v Evil MA, etc] and the same thing can be observed - the more people OOCly do their damnest to make it impossible to be conflicted, the worse any resulting conflict becomes. I would argue the server enables this - it does not force a middling ground resolution to conflict but outright encourages you to wipe out your opponents tiles, dissolve their vassals, and so forth - not really because muh RP, but because you're a idiot to not get rid of the ways people might have to rebel against you in the manner that you could feasibly lose in. This has already been mentioned in the mod discord with Helious v Cnor and most people agree it blows to have war be a exercise in cheesing the OOC rules rather then something driven by RP [I.E choosing vassals to keep/remove instead of removing them all to prevent revolts].

 

That said, I will always stand by the fact PvP, with a entirely separate set of grinding and PvP systems and rules, should not by THE deciding method of conflict on a RP server. The point should not be convenience, but narrative - to say RP conflict is just stalling is a bit ironic considering we are watching in real time how wars [PvP] gets stalled non-stop through technical issues, rescheduling, and outright delays. It is also a favorite point of people to glass over the fact the Server and it's Lore, and PvP, are entirely separate things. In theory nothing is stopping Koyo-Kuni from buying swamp tiles to WC the Stake, and you can bet the Mystics under Mordring have not been spending their time grinding neth and iron sets. 

 

Idk end of the day the point of the server is to have fun and write. PvP is fun if you really don't want to write. PvP also [allegedly] goes faster and more smoothly. To claim conflict bad though is a bad take in general - the issue is people don't do conflict well, and too often place winning above telling a cool story. People really don't have middle grounds besides CUT THAT DUDES HEAD OFF NOW AND WRITE THAT POST and doing nothing so i feel like we'd be better if people did conflict in a way that preserves it and offer some decent respect to players and not so much US versus THEM.

[Navigator 4260]

1 minute ago, TysCreations said:

The sentiment 'rp is rp' will kill this server eventually if nothing is done. Please. 

But thats what it is. The issue has never been roleplay itself, it has always been the OOC value people put into roleplay and how much OOCly charged the server is. If people learned to DETACH THEMSELVES FROM THEIR CHARACTERS, half the server's issues would disappear.

[Werew0lf 24180]

Sorry for roleplaying being a real and true angel of the Lord GOD! I won't roleplay it ever again. 

[gremlockgremlin 755]

2 minutes ago, Werew0lf said:

Sorry for roleplaying being a real and true angel of the Lord GOD! I won't roleplay it ever again. 

The only one true Lord of God is Sideways Irongrinder and you know it

[TysCreations 458]

1 minute ago, Navigator said:

But thats what it is. The issue has never been roleplay itself, it has always been the OOC value people put into roleplay and how much OOCly charged the server is. If people learned to DETACH THEMSELVES FROM THEIR CHARACTERS, half the server's issues would disappear.

Say that to the people who hid ooc reasons to start war beneath flimsy, see-through rp reasons

[Navigator 4260]

2 minutes ago, Ryfin Chany said:

Nav, don't be like that. Nuker's one of the leaders currently reshaping the map in Celia'nor right now. But the fact of the matter is he doesn't hold the influence of an ST member OOCly and an 'Aengul' ICly. No matter how you cut it, Werew0lf has more power over the server by virtue of his position and the character he plays. A regular player can only do so much compared to him, and the effort to match what he can change is too immense for any one GROUP of players to accomplish in the same amount of time. That's not to insult Werew0lf or accuse him of anything, that's just the position he currently has and that gives him more power.

I watched a regular player, Smawton, who wasn't even VIP, single-handedly doom an entire map with Shamanism

I watched a regular player, Star_Whale, who wasn't in Staff, single-handedly reshape orcish culture.

I watched a regular player, Thatpyrodude, who wasn't in Staff, single-handedly force World Team to rebuild an entire section of the map cause he blew up his own city.

I watched regular groups of players reshape history.

 

Stop hounding on the guy for playing a character lol.

[Haseroth 1740]

deal with it irp

[Navigator 4260]

1 minute ago, TysCreations said:

Say that to the people who hid ooc reasons to start war beneath flimsy, see-through rp reasons

gladly. have said, will continue to say so. read my first reply to this post, where i said the exact same thing you said.

[Werew0lf 24180]

1 minute ago, NotEvilAtAll said:

I don't get why you are allowed to play an Aengul as a personal character and use it to influence events.

 

I am a real and true Aengul, and it is my personal character, and I do use it to roleplay and influence events. This GUY is spitting FACTS!

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

5 minutes ago, Navigator said:

I'm not saying Loxy makes invalid points. I do believe that a conversation should be had about how OOC mindsets and OOC discussions affect and have always affected roleplay, but at the end of the day, if people just play the damn game, play their damn characters and stop being afraid of consequences because of 'ohhh all the time I spent :((', things will happen.

To be so real people need to stop "having" this discussion or saying it'd be so nice to have and start doing it. Start naming and calling out bad OOC mindsets and fixing them. something something be the change you want to see. 

 

I am more then happy to point out, in example, Hnor has forgone its entirely cultural identity in favour of RAAAAAAAH CLICK RAAAAAAAAAAAAA RALLYRALLYRALLYRALLYRALLY and outright being hostile to people who don't do that, in overt and less overt ways. I have said this explicitly to these people, because this is not IRP behavior I don't like but OOC actions that I don't like.

 

7 minutes ago, argonian said:

A couple nations have gotten destroyed, most of whom either (a) actively pursued a hostile foreign policy against the Pontifical States (and BTW, housing literal demons from Hell is hostile and it's silly to act otherwise)

Just to talk about this and I have no idea the context here so it's not about this specifically;

 

I was told recently that if you, a RO/PRO OOCly grant a dark faction permissions to be on your land - not IRPly, but OOCly - to promote conflict and a narrative with them, you will be held directly responsible both IRPly and OOCly for this entirely OOC choice [let's not pretend the region system is a IRP thing] and can thus be WC'd freely. I feel like this is just a good example of how OOC mindset stuff goes, and how certain rules and systems suffocate RP. 

[the GOAT of the craft 606]

the lore for canonism is okay and does enough to deviate it from regular catholicism. the implementation onto the server itself and how it is roleplayed is a poor imitation of catholicism tbh. there should be room for other religions and heresies to grow and thrive, but it seems that the status quo is "canonism is correct and the true faith" and this is shovelled down your throats by many human roleplayers.

 

@Werew0lfyour character doesn't help this by being a literal Aengul and I would like to see him binned

[Pancho 4197]

28 minutes ago, Benleft said:

I promise if ET were in charge of arbitrating how conflict is resolved the server would be much worse. Keep ST cucked, it is better for you. 

@Werew0lfgo back to doing memes!