Lets Talk About PVP

[LobsterLarry 1514]

8 minutes ago, ContestedSnow said:

i resent the thought of spending even more time in the mines to make 1 kit. a single suit of armour on AEVOS was one hour of real life time, plus the grind times for breeding cows and collecting leather. during veletz war i was forced to spend so much time in the mines gathering ore that i essentially stopped roleplaying alltogether to try and keep up with gear demand.

 

i would say that the best choice for pvp is making gear as cheap as possible to make people less scared of losing it; with the amount of time it took to gather gear for roleplayers on 9.0, it actually delivered psychic damage to have to use it in combat and i personally think contributed to making communities reticent of actually USING the gear. the gear costs being nil on this temp map has made me think that maybe costs should ALWAYS have been this low.

 

after all, the mythical unemployed pvper will defeat the unemployed rper in any grinding competition, so why bother forcing people to compete for who can waste the most total amount of hours of their lives in a tile mine

I say this as I believe not everyone should have a kit. It should be on the NATION to grind the kits out for their fighters, not require everyone to have a kit. Not everyone should be expected to show up for fights to defend against invaders, nor should random bandit groups have the same amount of gear as a full on government.

[ContestedSnow 1435]

3 minutes ago, LobsterLarry said:

I say this as I believe not everyone should have a kit. It should be on the NATION to grind the kits out for their fighters, not require everyone to have a kit. Not everyone should be expected to show up for fights to defend against invaders, nor should random bandit groups have the same amount of gear as a full on government.

if the tiles auto-produce the ore in a chest to collect thats fine, but as it was on aevos, someone has to be the 'NATION' guy sitting in the mine for 1 hour per minecraft armour set (speaking as a guy who had the glorious honour of grinding every piece of gear for Haense that got lost at westmark)

 

i dont think there ends up being much distinction between 'fighter' and 'not fighter' once warclaims come around either way, realms will pull every single person they can to try and achieve numbers advantage

[LobsterLarry 1514]

7 minutes ago, ContestedSnow said:

if the tiles auto-produce the ore in a chest to collect thats fine, but as it was on aevos, someone has to be the 'NATION' guy sitting in the mine for 1 hour per minecraft armour set (speaking as a guy who had the glorious honour of grinding every piece of gear for Haense that got lost at westmark)

 

i dont think there ends up being much distinction between 'fighter' and 'not fighter' once warclaims come around either way, realms will pull every single person they can to try and achieve numbers advantage

Might just be better off having warclaims supply the shit and have that be an instanced fight rather than expecting players to sit in mines all day long (because itll happen regardless on main) where if you want a set on main you should just grind it, but not need it.

[Kholibrii 1211]

Whether or not you like it, PvP is a part of the server that has always been here and is never going away. As someone who isn't a PvPer, I find 1.9 PvP to be a lot more enjoyable than 1.8. I can recognize that 1.9 takes longer for non-PvPers(like myself) to get used to and understand, but I believe it created more interesting combat scenarios than 1.8 has this map. 

 

Expecting players to take a few hours to practice 1.9 PvP to get the gist is not that big of a burden. As someone who isn't a big PvPer, being able to see your improvement(and reap the rewards it) as you practice with 1.9 encourages more people to learn to PvP on the server. 1.8 PvP doesn't really encourage people outside of PvP groups to practice because whether or not you get some practice before a war makes very little difference in your overall performance. Encouraging people to practice PvP more could promote some form of PvP Stratification on LOTC rather than just having PvPers and PvP-Noobs with very little in between(what we have RN).

[LobsterLarry 1514]

2 minutes ago, Kholibrii said:

Whether or not you like it, PvP is a part of the server that has always been here and is never going away. As someone who isn't a PvPer, I find 1.9 PvP to be a lot more enjoyable than 1.8. I can recognize that 1.9 takes longer for non-PvPers(like myself) to get used to and understand, but I believe it created more interesting combat scenarios than 1.8 has this map. 

 

Expecting players to take a few hours to practice 1.9 PvP to get the gist is not that big of a burden. As someone who isn't a big PvPer, being able to see your improvement(and reap the rewards it) as you practice with 1.9 encourages more people to learn to PvP on the server. 1.8 PvP doesn't really encourage people outside of PvP groups to practice because whether or not you get some practice before a war makes very little difference in your overall performance. Encouraging people to practice PvP more could promote some form of PvP Stratification on LOTC rather than just having PvPers and PvP-Noobs with very little in between(what we have RN).

Absolutely not true. You can't just practice for a few hours and get the gist of it on 1.9. There are countless strategies you have to learn and you can't just 'one shoe fits all' 1.9 like you can on 1.8. Ping matters WAY more like to the point where you'll get wrecked just due to ping. It is immensely different than what we are used to on LOTC with 1.8, and it will only bolster pvp groups who are used to playing 1.9. It takes a LOT of time to get good at 1.9 and maybe some learn it sooner, but it is a MUCH different system that will only favor those who do it all day long. It will hurt the roleplay community vastly and those who say 1.9 better are probably the same ones that use it and practice it every day to destroy the little guy.

I am thinking what if the lance and pike had a cooldown but keeping the rest at a non cooldown. It would make things a lot better so people don't just run into groups of horses and kill people in waves.

[olpx 1013]

55 minutes ago, indiana105 said:

think surge is fine just get rid of item quality since it doesnt even work for half the craftable items and reduce crafting costs 

 

btw as long as crp is just arguing why ur character is cooler for 8 hours conflict will be dominated by pvp sweats. "roll system too game-y" but conflict just defaults to vanilla minecraft pvp beyond 5 ppl lol

I agree with this, If there is going to be 1.8 make everything same stat quality because as indi said they dont even work for half of them

Conflict on this server I will be frank is just plainly terrible, The current system needs more than just adjustments it probably needs a whole overhaul which wont occur. Crp as long as this system is in place,  will always be arguing why your character should win irp over the other player. The only things that truly determine if one wins a CRP conflict is having the following "Win Conditions" people will always play to WIN there is "Honor system" if you believe that the honor system works you probably think that pvp should be removed from lotc , ST metals (Boomsteel, Carb etc) being a alternate Creature that has some goofy ability. someone being a necromancer having a magic or whatever the case may be will always determine the outcome of CRP. I think I have had to also get a mod involved in 75% of the crp's I have been in where the other side is a "Enemy" or just wants to win and is plainly power gaming

1.9 Is the only way this server will be able to move forward, The current pvp system literally IS 1.9 if you have not noticed the sweep attack which does not exist on 1.8 btw, and the very obvious 1.9 kb that accompanies the sweep hits (You can do 1.9 "Strategies" on this current  system which we call "1.8" for example a "W" tap or "S" which unironically is more effective without hit cooldown)  The current system nonetheless It is literally 1.9 with no hit cooldown. The only difference is you cant turn off your brain and click and you actually have to swing your sword which may be harder for some but I think people just need to understand conflict above a certain people can not reasonably be this crp arguing non sense and there is no point in keeping no hit cooldown when we have all the other 1.9 game mechanics with no hit cooldown calling it 1.8 is just ridiculous . This change is extremely necessary in my opinion but who knows maybe all iv stated is hot takes 

The horse meta with lances can not exist with 1.9. I have heard many people complain about lances the obvious horse meta as probably the main person who "exploits" these "metas" I think honestly 1.9 on horseback would put everyone at more equal playing field due to the nerf and removal of being able to spam click lances on people and the whole horse meta probably just disappearing instantly.

Check spoiler for examples
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Borin 7645]

Just keep it 1.8 ffs , ignore the gremlins crying for 1.9, they'll be the ones to benefit from it and we'll get shit decided by a pvp clique again. 1.8 is for the people... People on abt 'i think 1.9 is better blablabla' are morons (olpx's argument is gibberish ignore him especially)

 

Warclaims will crash anyway

 

Do what tide suggested abt gear and stuff, sod this "democratic" bollocks.

 

[Spoopy_Duck 3217]

@Unwillinglytold me to comment "pvp bad remove it we are roleplay server"

Anyways my two cents on something more so on the war claim side is that I feel like there is no point to the current "war goal" alternatives when the only downside to just deleting a nation off the server is wasting a few more weeks of time. I feel like there needs to be room to allow more disputes or skirmishes over pieces of land and then settling the war rather than a game of who will get to the other capital and delete the other first.

[Cheese 8874]

WHat if we get rid of pvp and war and crp and we all just sit in a circle and be best friends and hold hands and single hymnals 😄

[Ninjay 1184]

24 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

-snip-

With how many times I've seen you say it I guess I assumed it was still the same hot issue, though now I suppose it's the ST Templar Cabal buffing Templar and nerfing Naz.

 

In all seriousness and non-flame, though, I do actually agree it would be nice to see lore/rp and mechanics actually compliment and play well together instead of just being two mostly separate entities that occasionally butt heads. I'd genuinely kill to have mechanical magic be a thing; we've already seen from the April Fool's magic plugin that it is possible. It has been possible in Minecraft for over a decade now, with plugins like Herocraft (which I will eternally shill for until the day I die). Unfortunately such seems to be a bit divisive, and at the moment I have been told that mechanical systems for lore such as magic are vetoed on an admin level, so if the playerbase really wants things such as that (they should because it is cool and fun), then they will need to make that opinion very well known in hopes of swaying the powers that be.

That said, no matter what type of PvP remained, if things like that were to get added I am certain that they would also create a noticeable skill gap between people (those who can figure out the mechanics of such, work out the best ways of doing things, etc., vs those who cannot or do not do so) amongst other issues, and could potentially lead to more instances of some people / groups being always 'stronger' than others - but, even now in 1.8, that is still the case, so maybe it's just destined to be a constant reality.

 

I am just waiting for the day someone uses Aesopian's star potions to great effect.

[VoidDimensions 280]

I am not considered a PVPER of any sort, but I have asked for 1v1 PVP if I think it would be quicker or more fun than 3-hour crp slop,
But I think 1.9 would be better for this server, as I don't think its that much more of challenege to learn or use, I would even say its easier as you don't need to know any clicking style or being limited by your tech, its fully even on both sides besides knowledge of how the 1.9 pvp works, I generally dislike 1.9 pvp on other servers due to Potions, golden apples, god apples, enchantments but since that is already banned on this server, I think it would more fun and feel more like a game instead of clickfest

Edited September 24, 2025 by VoidDimensions

[ibraheemc2000 2965]

Oh my.

My best advise is to listen to Tide1 on his post about gear.

For version of pvping, I like both, but I feel 1.8 might be better for the server as a whole. Thu idk the stats, maybe consider in the lag this may or may not cause in large battles(30v30, 20v20s anything 25 player plus for the server to register the hits, our damn hamster is already on life support, so gada be careful till the server tries to upgrade the hamster.)

And in my opinion, both statements are valid when it comes to grinding. both Value and dis-value. I think the current(Pre transition map) resource requirements were way to much in its cost, so lower the cost is a certain. We killed Nexus which brought the plague of 90% peasant and guards 9% nobles 1% kings to a big 90% nobles and kings 10% anything else.

nexus was killed due to the grinding aspect, thu it was apreciated and loved by many. Lets just make sure we enjoy rp for those who do not main lotc as their life and side hobby irl for pvp.

Lastly I think the warclaim should be skirmish, field, and siege. it allows Momentum and story building, but allow defenders to choose where they fight ON THE PATH the attackers pre chosen. Allowing actual strategy and story building. A lot of cool figures in history outside leaders pointed out cool places to hold the enemy at or places to defend instead of ride out.

Though somthing not mentioned... I really really want to see naval battles again for warclaims like axios, we have the cool plugins now to allow it, but thats just me unless there is more voices here to that. 

[LobsterLarry 1514]

9 minutes ago, VoidDimensions said:

I am not considered a PVP of any sort, but I have asked for 1v1 PVP if I think it would be quicker or more fun than 3-hour crp slop,
But I think 1.9 would be better for this server, as I don't think its that much more of challenege to learn or use, I would even say its easier as you don't need to know any clicking style or being limited by your tech, its fully even on both sides besides knowledge of how the 1.9 pvp works, I generally dislike 1.9 pvp on other servers due to Potions, golden apples, god apples, enchantments but since that is already banned on this server, I think it would more fun and feel more like a game instead of clickfest

1.9 is more limited by your tech than 1.8. You dont need any 'clicking style' thats stupid you can just click however you want, and ping matters a LOT more so you are forced to get better equipment for routing to get lower ms (or use some software like netlimiter to get higher stable ms)

Also there is a lot more to know in 1.9 than in 1.8 in regards to mechanics that just isn't common knowledge for the most part.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

6 minutes ago, Ninjay said:

With how many times I've seen you say it I guess I assumed it was still the same hot issue, though now I suppose it's the ST Templar Cabal buffing Templar and nerfing Naz.

 

In all seriousness and non-flame, though, I do actually agree it would be nice to see lore/rp and mechanics actually compliment and play well together instead of just being two mostly separate entities that occasionally butt heads. I'd genuinely kill to have mechanical magic be a thing; we've already seen from the April Fool's magic plugin that it is possible. It has been possible in Minecraft for over a decade now, with plugins like Herocraft (which I will eternally shill for until the day I die). Unfortunately such seems to be a bit divisive, and at the moment I have been told that mechanical systems for lore such as magic are vetoed on an admin level, so if the playerbase really wants things such as that (they should because it is cool and fun), then they will need to make that opinion very well known in hopes of swaying the powers that be.

That said, no matter what type of PvP remained, if things like that were to get added I am certain that they would also create a noticeable skill gap between people (those who can figure out the mechanics of such, work out the best ways of doing things, etc., vs those who cannot or do not do so) amongst other issues, and could potentially lead to more instances of some people / groups being always 'stronger' than others - but, even now in 1.8, that is still the case, so maybe it's just destined to be a constant reality.

 

I am just waiting for the day someone uses Aesopian's star potions to great effect.

 

I would far more enjoy the state of things ™️ if the strong group just had strong lore and store pvp in a system where lore is represented in mechanics, but right now these are two entirely separate things and so all you really need to be "strong" is better at pvp with more people then anyone else. We kinda saw the inklings of this with vinovia before it blew up where a giant influx of pvpers with 0 rp background or any real background in lore or whatever posed a greater threat then haense did. 

 

As for 1.8 vs 1.9 [under the assumption 1.8  is the spamclick verison] 1.8 is better. The actual clicking should be dirt simple. The barrier to entry should be 0 or so close to that its effectively 0 [I.E we stop banishing people to the mines whenever some 10-year vet gets angry at the other side's 10-year vet] that the only real question is is your rally bigger then someone elses + how do you deploy your forces + what terrain. 

 

In honestly, if like half the mechanics of raid ladders being pocket boxes that let you bypass any wall were removed [and replaced with something like idk those wall scaling towers] and the rules were therefore adjust to remove landscarring eyesoring pvp builds things could be cooler. instead its all kinda just slop imo bc how many loopholes and wack mechanical things are built to counter equally wack mechanics and there just happens to be rp in the background of all this. 

[Borin 7645]

1.8 was ALWAYS best for the masses. 1.8 IS best for the masses. 1.9 IS NOT best for the server and encouraging those who don't like pvp to get involved. 1.9 is more complicated, I don't get how people think 1.8's 'click a lot at people' is more complicated to understand for the avg random who is going to be plonked into the blob in a warclaim than 'you need to jump up and down and time ur hits hitting these people in the lag blob'. 1.8 is also far better to train, as you can take people to hypixel for a nice chill ooc training rather than just 'okay go onto this 1.9 kit pvp server with a bunch of tryharding insufferable gremlins' as it was on almaris.

 

1.9'ers are dumb and I will smoke a cigarette for every 1.9'er post to kill my lungs as much as they want to kill lotc