Nation Application Community Feedback

[Nectorist 12869]

17 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

I would argue that being dragged into a PvP only warclaim will kill any momentum you might have since most nations enter into pre-drawn, slop treaties that basically conjoin PvPers but /shrug it is a fair point; most nations are DoA. Most Lairs, honestly, end up DoA.

 

I think honestly the overwhelming agreement seems to be to bring back something like settlments, and maybe a smaller system. I would go a step father and say only Lairs/Realms should be able to lair claim to full tiles, and that these colonies/villages/settlements can only get a increasing large plot of large, but never more then, say, half a tile's worth. I think its worth importing in old settlement rules about the ability to WC smaller places and just keep a limit; Vassalization is rapidly growing into a luxury underneath 1 of 3 places, of which only 1 really accepts anything not an offshoot of the primary culture. With expansion to a Realm/Lair should come the risk of WCs and whatnot; smaller places should just be able to exist.

 

At the end of the day, and a point that a lot of people [human players mostly] seem to miss is that the point of the server is to have fun and tell a story. It is really hard to do anything if 2 PROs get to decide for the entire server [because realm applications are made impossible besides the super warclaim body] if you get to have region perms or not. I don't really get what the fuss is with some of you and this believe that you have to earn the right to...rp on the server? I promise I don't think it'll kill anyones activity if a few 50x50 places exist that just Are their own thing as they expand and form, or just die and the land is returned to the godless, greedy monks

We already ran the experiment of very loose nation enforcement with a server environment where wars were basically impossible for an entire year last map, and the end result was a dead period where rigid status quo enforcement guided every nation's policies and they all became insular and just spammed court events. I don't think warring brand new nations right off the bat is healthy, but a dynamic political environment is the best driver of RP. I think there's a way to split the difference between having one nation dominate everyone's affairs and having a group of nations that just sit on their hands and don't try to influence the RP environment at all. If there were 10 nation apps right now from groups that had proven their success in sustaining their RP, then I would be all for it, but the only wandering group rn that I think has that sauce is Haelun'or (despite the other multitude of issues it has).

 

I also think a lot of people's views on vassalage presume that the Empire will not change at all, nor will it collapse or decline or anything like that. As server history has shown, that isn't the case, and I can definitely see where using history of vassalage as a strong criterion for nationhood would be beneficial in a future era where things are more fragmented than they are right now. I do agree tho that settlements is a good in-between, maybe use it as sort of a trial stage for nationhood.

[_RoyalCrafter_ 5285]

2 hours ago, River said:

It sounds as though you heavily favor settlements, you spent like half of your post attempting to make the argument to reimplement them. Which I was against removing them in the first place way back when. On this it sounds like we're on the same side, I always thought there was a place for them. My only issue is with vassals, and that alone is my only issue, I'm not alone in that opinion, there've been ramblings about vassals since even before map launched from plenty of the community and staff-alike, and they're not wrong that something feels off about them.

 

 

I like settlements, and think they should be readded. I dislike that lairs are the only way for groups to have land untied to nations and they are  restricted to magic users basically. Settlements are a good solution for people with small-medium sized groups to do their own thing, and if they grow big enough eventually become a nation. Becoming a nation right off the bat for a group is too much work and pressure, speaking as someone who has been NL twice.

I think what feels off about vassals is alot of them are pseudo nations with no actual loyalty to their realm at all. they are all just biding their time to break free while NLs benefit from the activity metrics and mina. It makes sense for a place like the EMPIRE OF MAN to have a lot of humans in it lol, plus not every single noble is landed there. While places like Krugmar and Numendil are housing nations in their own nations. I'm not criticizing them for this, this is just how things are done with the current ruleset and landscape.

the more freedom there is, the more dynamic decisions can be made, the more unique outcomes can happen. Numendil is a mega nation born out of the settlement system when Seo made barrowtown, that alone is testament to the freedom and potential allowed by such a system. and if people are worried about dead settlements littering the map, well there is a new staff team on the block that could help deal with that wink wink. (please turn dead settlements into ruins and not a complete rollback of the region)

[Smmer 2441]

Yo kaiser real talk can i paypal u for a nation? lmk dms r open.

[Qaz_The_Great 1394]

Lair to Nation pipeline. Gage lair activity and if it meets a threshold, offer an upgrade to nation.

 

Alternatively, you can have vassal to nations via the war system or consensual releasing of a vassal to independent nation.

[LuckyD 141]

Not a huge, big thing to say on this. (Jk, it's a huge big thing. There is a tldr at the bottom.)

 

Only have a little under 200 hours of active time on the server so far, but I've ran similar servers/systems over the years. Generally, you need a balance between player freedom and admins not being stretched too thin.

 

Let players waste Mina on things that are too big for them. Let people fail. Let large nations bully small ones. If you want to encourage rp, failure must happen on one side.

 

I dunno much more than that, but if you want an opinion from a new player who has fallen in love with the server;

 

I enjoy it for the rp. Facilitate that above all else. Minecraft is the medium in which people play LoTC. Large nations should have exceptionally difficult, incredibly expensive matience.

 

The Empire is the big boy on the block seemingly right now. They got some Vassals which themsleves are quite large. The infrastructure to run that should be made very, very apparent. Hundreds of thousands of Mina, or resources like food that are paid to admins to feed general populations on a narrative level, that sort of thing. The bureaucratic strain needs a mechanical enforcement that is unforigiving, in my opinion, to give those items any actual economic value to players in-game.

 

If this is a new land, make it wild and untamed. The level of a foothold settlements have here with so little pushback after only a few in game years is a suspension of disbelief that I find hard to understand.

 

Every time I've tried to sell anything to a nation IC, I get the "wait for the economy to stabilize" excuse. Since the beginning. I find it absolutely baffling that I see bread for 0.1 mina overstocked to hell, this odd narrative of no one having money, but then turn to see these fully functioning nations all having these decked out militaries and all that.

 

It is an issue of narrative in my mind. More nations is more competition, but where is the line? Where does the Empire, Norland, the Horde, or anywhere else GET all these materials and food to outfit their entire nation? From farms, mines, and such of course - but with such a strain why is it never bought up by them? Why do nations not have people who go around and buy up resources if we JUST got here? Why are we even THINKING about going to war if there is no resource gain or territory gain benefit? For theology? If that is the case, then a war would be a net LOSS on a group. To my understanding (and most recent example) the Empire flattening Helen'or cost them next to nothing, despite them gaining little to nothing from it. War is expensive, conflict needs serious reason to happen. Currently it does not feel that way to the common observer.

 

Maybe my problem is entirely misunderstood, but I did see IRP a nation thinking to run their military at "5 Mina per man, provide your own ore for armor" - and it baffles me that a nation can exist at all like that. The economic strain is both seemingly putting every person into a narrative poverty where a nation can barely scrape itself together enough to feed people, where no one wants to buy anything - but then I see nations strutting about their armies in full armor, fully supplied, fully ready to crush other nations -somehow?-

 

Perhaps I am too far down the ladder of politics irp or perhaps I am just not a smart enough player without enough time to know how the server works, but it continues to be odd and immersion-breaking that these nations supposedly barely able to get by, so desperately needing resources, are totally unwilling to actually get them IRP via trade, and clutch Minas so tightly. People should be starving, nations should be barely able to hold themselves together, but I don't see that at all reflected beyond nobody willing to buy anything yet somehow still just having anything they need to function. Are you poor or not? You cannot be both.

 

Is 25k a lot? It seems like a lot to me when you cannot sell a loaf of bread for the minimum amount. It seems like a big number indeed, but I have no idea what the economy looks like top-down.

 

Should there be restrictions to make a nation? Probably, but they should encourage rp and be incredibly difficult. Not everything should BE a nation. If I want to go out and make some stupid little fishing cabin and live there as a hermit, that should be accessible. If I want to lead a hamlet of ten people in the middle of nowhere, that should be accessible. It should be expected most of those things will fail or be cannibalized by others, that is the nature of civilization.

 

Do I think staff are somehow against players? No. Not at all. That is frankly a horrible take and spitting at the people who put so much effort into making and maintaining LoTC is childish. You guys clearly seem put the time and work in. This is not your job, it is your hobby, and anyone who does not respect that baffles me.

 

I suppose this is all to say that I really don't know a good way to answer your questions, I have not been here long enough. But, if you want my general thoughts around settlements, politics, nations, or whatever - there they are.

 

This is a new land. Make settling it hell. Uphill battle every step of the way. Roll a die once a month to see which settlement gets hit by an earthquake, I don't know. I just wish it felt like nations were struggling as much as they seemingly should be. There is no sense of strange wilderness about the map from my eyes so far, just a bunch of nations and their backyards where desensitized warriors fight darkspawn. I want to be terrified of the world outside the walls. I want to know if I out a bomb in the Emperor's mailbox he won't just get teehee ressurected by monks and invalidate that effort. I want consequences, struggle, and to earn every inch.

 

I think that LoTC can provide that, but I don't know enough to make meaningful suggestions as to how it should. I hope to play more and learn enough to one day have a more foundational opinion - but that is first impressions.

 

 

 

 

Tldr: I don't know enough to know. RP does not seem to reflect the mechanical state of economies, more nations might help with that. I'd encourage more tiers than only nations and only encourage ANYTHING if it directly results in more freedom of expression IRP and more RP to occur. The economy feels really weird and self-contradicting in that nations/players seem so shy to spend Minas and IRP talk about how difficult the economy is, but then nations are totally a 180 from that in that they seem perfectly self-sufficent, organized, and capible despite not even being in this land for more than a few years and escaping from ruin. Where are the resources coming from, because they certainly don't seem to be coming from player to player interaction.

Edited November 29, 2025 by LuckyD
Formatting. I am no fourm wizard, I fear.

[River 555]

8 hours ago, LuckyD said:

 

 

This guy did not need to cook this hard.

 

I think newer player perspective or criticism is often more important than our more established players perspective. Because it’s indicative of what players expect, and see short comings in our systems at first glance without bias and without viewing things from the lens other people see from. 

 

I wanted to try to summarize and bullet point the number of issues he mentioned but there’s just so many issues I agree with that it’s making it hard to just summarize them.

 

I think the way he puts it is smartly, the economy and way that nations operate especially in a new land is a suspension of belief and the lack of narrative is prevalent. These are long standing issues that have been around for years due to the systems we have in place. 
 

I would encourage @LuckyDto attempt to summarize, bullet point the issues, make that large post more digestible so that issues can be either addressed specifically or one at a time. I know this is a post about the specifics on nation approval process but I think we’ve gathered a lot of critical feedback already and additional feedback into our systems regarding nations or closely tired to them is also appreciated. 

[Zqppy 918]

25,000 mina is a shit ton of minas
especially for a group trying to become a nation

Being both a former NL and someone who was accepted from a nation application, it took being Already a successful nation to even get close to make enough mina to get even close to that number.

What happened to the philosophy that you're buying your Capital tile, 10k is a lot but atleast realistic for a group to achieve.

Asking for that much Mina incentivizes people ignoring roleplay and simply Minmaxing Mina production. Ive been on both spectrums,

The ideology of "give everything you make to me and simply grind nonstop" is not a good basis for a new nation.

[LuckyD 141]

13 hours ago, River said:

 

This guy did not need to cook this hard.

 

I think newer player perspective or criticism is often more important than our more established players perspective. Because it’s indicative of what players expect, and see short comings in our systems at first glance without bias and without viewing things from the lens other people see from. 

 

I wanted to try to summarize and bullet point the number of issues he mentioned but there’s just so many issues I agree with that it’s making it hard to just summarize them.

 

I think the way he puts it is smartly, the economy and way that nations operate especially in a new land is a suspension of belief and the lack of narrative is prevalent. These are long standing issues that have been around for years due to the systems we have in place. 
 

I would encourage @LuckyDto attempt to summarize, bullet point the issues, make that large post more digestible so that issues can be either addressed specifically or one at a time. I know this is a post about the specifics on nation approval process but I think we’ve gathered a lot of critical feedback already and additional feedback into our systems regarding nations or closely tired to them is also appreciated. 

Honestly this weekend I wouldn't mind just popping a post up in general as a new player feedback thing.

 

I'm far from a fourm wizard in general, but I can make some bullet points here while I have a few minutes as well.

 

• There is a lack of challenge in the new setting from a narrative point of view.

 

• Mechanics of Minecraft exist to facilitate rp and to make it "make sense."

 

• I send the Emperor a pipe bomb, it kills him, he comes back because "teehee the Monks", and that invalidates all my rp entirely. That is a horrible problem. We are playing on a server with teenagers, we cannot assume they all will not powergame or play fair just because they knew how to define it in their app. Systems need to be in place that enforce a fair standard, not this honor system that begs people to have Jhon Chadwick The Destroyer's power fantasy that can never risk a loss because they do not understand the story is a collective effort, and not about them. It is something that comes with years of experience and something hard to enforce.

 

• Further on the top point, the combat system is fine. But there needs to be a way to track hp, what you need to roll to hit, something. The rules being this loose are begging for people to powergame, even unknowingly. If my little guy Relad gets an arrow in his neck, he is dead. But he needs to let that happen in this system, which many people are not going to be willing to do.

 

• Bad guys can win. I see a lot about "play your villian to lose," and I disagree. A villian reminds you that hope is something you earn, not something expected. 

 

• Half the server seems like they need a talking to about OOC/IC decision making and how to seperate it. If someone acts against you, do not assume they don't like you. The amount of crap I've seen you guys give eachother over IC decisions and how much it's apparently bled into how you actually feel about one another is childish and sad. Not to say admins can fix that, but it needs to be addressed. 

 

• Nations should require resources like Food that gets sucked into the void to feed the narrative population, not only the actual player pop. Other resources too, probably. It would give any economic incentive for players to actually want to buy things. As of now, I've seen the carts outside Vertegrad have 6,000 bread sold for 0.1 for so long they went rotten.

 

• The economy from a common perspective is incredibly poor and not willing to buy resources. Yet every nation seems to be able to be fully kitted out and doing perfectly well despite the fact you cannot sell anything to anyone even at the price of dirt.

 

• There has been a widespread issue in the community of blaming admins, who do this work as a hobby, for every issue. Oftentimes issues of Powergaming, Economy issues, and the like are on the player-level. Even for issues that are not, this Us vs. Them mentality is toxic and unhealthy for both sides.

 

• We need to facilitate player to player interaction in every system implemented. That needs to be the primary goal.

 

• Nations should absolutely not be the only form of settlement. If you want to be a hermit in a cabin in the woods, you should be able to do that. You want to run a small hamlet of three or four houses and a little farm, you should be able to do that.

 

• War is costly. The Empire stomping Helen'or is the most recent example. The Empire has seemingly gained little for that, and while they sent their troops so far out, there seem not to be any logistics to worry about with that type of thing. Loss is not the only cost to consider with war, it is an expenditure of resources that should make any nation double-take before commiting to what should be a resource loss for something that a vassal could do.

 

• Multiple vassals are fine. The issue is the seeming lack of any limit to that in terms of logistical burden. Empires of any kind cannot expand indefinitely given the resources available. 

 

• Why have we settled here this well with nearly no pushback or difficulty in just a few years? Where is any struggle to set a foothold? Walking through settlements, I'd have never known anyone was new to this land unless I'd been directly told. The "wilderness" feels like I'm strolling through a nation's backyard. I should fear exiting the walls in an untamed land. I should tell people a Demon attacked me without the main reaction being "Oh yeah, Malflame? You get used to that." It is immersion-breaking to say the very least.

 

• Making a nation should be a colossal, horrifically difficult effort. A town, a village, a hamlet - not so hard. But the nations should not be nearly as expansive as they are already. Throw some earthquakes at us, have nature ANGRY we are violating Her, have the aggressive natural apex wildlife that has laid untouched here so long make it hell to be here.

 

• I personally want a collaborative rp experience in which I need to earn every inch, where my choices are meaningful, and where I can ensure that everyone I interact with is playing the same game. I want to be able to lose that at the drop of a hat to the sudden, unforgiving nature of death. I want to be able to lose, to claw victory after hard work, and to enjoy all of that. LoTC is hairs away from ensuring that narrative, fair game exists - but it is not there yet. Systems need to be looked at and "Redlines" of them enforced generally. Action, consequence. Every RPG revolves around that concept. I should know how many times I can get hit before I need to go down. I am fine playing a nobody who blows over in the wind, but I hesitate to do anything other than that knowing the horror stories I am so frequently hearing about.

 

• On nations, again, they should be nearly unattainable. Is 25k a lot? Perhaps. But I frankly think they should take months upon months of effort by a large community. Hundreds of thousands of Mina invested by the time they get to the size of, again my best example, The Empire. The fact so many nations exist on the level they do already, only a few years after being RUN OUT of their old nation? It is asinine. It is a complete suspension of disbelief that this should be possible, and only the player to player economy seems to reflect that. Even then, that is contradictory to what is shown irp.

 

• Another point on war, there is a good reason it is not the go-to in real life. No one wins. It is not only a moral issue of taking so many lives, but an economic strain that requires a nation to be on board with it. In this new land, war should be the furthest thing from anyone'a mind, but it is not. Why? Because there are seemingly no reasons not to, you don't risk losing anything if you win. War should always, always be an expenditure - a serious one - and a last resort. Brinksmanship worked for a reason.

 

• I recognize I know far too little of the server to have strong opinions, but most of this is from a little under 200 hours of active play.

 

 

I may edit this a bit later to add some more, just finishing the Thanksgiving weekend with the folks. OG post and TLDR are up a ways, but I'll break it down more later.

 

A lot of this touches the same points a few times, and I do apologize for that. I wrote the og post in a better frame of mind than this, truth be told, and I'd still suggest that if you are reading this far anyway.

 

Also big thanks to @Riverfor letting me know my words hold more weight than I may have assumed. Speaking confidently on these issues is a thing that is easy to shy away from in a place with so many veterans who already have such strong opinions. I do not, still, expect mine to make any big changes, but I hope it can be a refreshing  and helpful point of view from someone not so deep in the culture of LoTC. "Looking through a pair of clean eyes", my grandfather used to say.

 

Also, happy early holidays, lads and lasses.

Edited November 29, 2025 by LuckyD

[Treshure 5817]

People try and make their nations like a master-planned city instead of seeing where things organically go. Staff, usually preceding from nation/group leadership, import the same mindset.

 

Players ought to be able to claim a very small plot of land where they desire, if already unclaimed territory, and receive no assistance otherwise. Their builds should reflect the paltry nature of their beginning. If they consistently roleplay, if there is consistent activity in that plot, the plot size can grow with mina contribution. If they go inactive, the plot starts decreasing until it vanishes and nature reclaims the build (a quick ST builder makeover and some sort of cooldown is triggered).

 

this would give open opportunity to new player groups and fence out fad groups altogether 

 

 

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

On 11/28/2025 at 9:58 AM, River said:

 

snip

 

Moderately more coherent now so I'll re-tackle this with less words hopefully

 

I'll preface the rest of my comment with the fact that I think this gets overlooked waaaay too often:

On 11/28/2025 at 8:23 PM, LuckyD said:

The Empire is the big boy on the block seemingly right now. They got some Vassals which themsleves are quite large. The infrastructure to run that should be made very, very apparent. Hundreds of thousands of Mina, or resources like food that are paid to admins to feed general populations on a narrative level, that sort of thing. The bureaucratic strain needs a mechanical enforcement that is unforigiving, in my opinion, to give those items any actual economic value to players in-game.

 

If this is a new land, make it wild and untamed. The level of a foothold settlements have here with so little pushback after only a few in game years is a suspension of disbelief that I find hard to understand.

 

On 11/28/2025 at 8:23 PM, LuckyD said:

It is an issue of narrative in my mind. More nations is more competition, but where is the line? Where does the Empire, Norland, the Horde, or anywhere else GET all these materials and food to outfit their entire nation? From farms, mines, and such of course - but with such a strain why is it never bought up by them? Why do nations not have people who go around and buy up resources if we JUST got here? Why are we even THINKING about going to war if there is no resource gain or territory gain benefit? For theology? If that is the case, then a war would be a net LOSS on a group. To my understanding (and most recent example) the Empire flattening Helen'or cost them next to nothing, despite them gaining little to nothing from it. War is expensive, conflict needs serious reason to happen. Currently it does not feel that way to the common observer.

 

Maybe my problem is entirely misunderstood, but I did see IRP a nation thinking to run their military at "5 Mina per man, provide your own ore for armor" - and it baffles me that a nation can exist at all like that. The economic strain is both seemingly putting every person into a narrative poverty where a nation can barely scrape itself together enough to feed people, where no one wants to buy anything - but then I see nations strutting about their armies in full armor, fully supplied, fully ready to crush other nations -somehow?-

 

I can't [and won't] speak to economics much because I don't know much, but I think its often overlooked how easily the world is shrunk down. It takes an army months/years of preparation to gather the means to go to war....or they can just do the same thing on horseback minus the siege engines [which really just knock down the wall] in 10 minutes. It's not hard for a raiding force to reach anywhere on the map, regardless of the IRP implications of that stretching of a force, because its mechanically possible. 

 

Because of that [and other things] I think at some point we have to recognize parts of LoTC are gamified. We really can't have a system [or systems] that promote RP engagement when just about every part of conflict, raid, and war rules require some PRO or RO to grant you their blessing, or likewise be the deciding force. 

 

As for Settlements, I am kinda agreeing with the idea of bringing that back, but not in just a settlement/realm/lair system. In essence, you'd just add back settlements as a part of some pre-lair/realm process, call it 3 stages with Settlements [as they were on almaris] being the final stage. The first 2 stages should not be pasted builds but more the building phase - developing both the culture and the area. None of these things, including settlements, should own the tile they reside on and pay a reduced tax as a counterpart. From there a settlement could have a few options; become a realm if its met some settlement-specific criteria regarding activity and cultural development, become a lair if it meets those thresholds, or remain a settlement. 

 

As for vassals, I think they should get stricter build limits, size limits, and whatnot like lairs and other kinds of structures do. I do partly agree that vassals are starting to just become mini-nations without the burdens and risks of being a nation, and that is more cheesing the OOC systems; though I honestly believe the entire system of how we classify entities needs revising, given how many things exist that do not neatly fit in the realm/lair dichotomy. 

 

 

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

On 11/27/2025 at 5:31 AM, Morigung-oog said:

One thing I despised was how easy it was for destroyed nations to simply reform under a new name. A nation could be warclaimed and simply vassalise under another nation to avoid consequence or found their nation under a new name. This feels like a copout and subtracts to the real risk of annihilation warclaims.

based point coming from a person ironic to be saying it lmao.