Food Plugin Development

[KBR 2046]

I think that this idea can be cool, I won't comment much on PVP buffs and whatnot because we'd need more examples for that. 
My only hope with the development of this plugin (alongside fixing foodbags) is that it respects player time. Mining for example has been changed into something that undoubtedly DOES NOT. Eight hour wait timers so that I can grind again was something that was fine when I was thirteen or fourteen years old, but myself and the server have clearly aged up since then. I don't think that anyone appreciates MORE grind time to get to activities that they want to do be it RP or PVP. Arguing that introduced systems don't negatively impact RP is disingenuous and clearly ignores the fact that there is a large community of people who would like to partake in both, and that LoTC has a rooted history in a mix of these as well. 

TLDR: It's cool to add interesting plugins. Please though consider that they should add fun without being at the expense of people who want to play the server normally with their friends as opposed to solo grinding. 

[Cheezboi9 618]

3 hours ago, ImmortalShadowZ said:

All of this stuff will give debuffs and turn into pvp orientated groups spending days to weeks trying to work out the most op food items and then go around pvping with status buffs. It won't be enjoyable for the roleplay community, which LOTC has always been first and foremost. 

First of all, what? The PVP oriented groups are some of the least active roleplayers on the server. They usually only hop on to do pvp stuff and don't really interact much with the more hardcore roleplay community. You're describing two different core groups in your argument which are both an important part of our server, but then go on to say that the roleplay side of the server is going to be massively affected when this doesn't remove anything. As intended, this will likely be an avenue for those that do enjoy some of the more mechanically interesting things out there.

As for the technical side of things, here's a quick update:

The foodcore bugs are being patched as we speak. I finished most of it last night, should have a functional version on main in a few days. I've had to rework the entire storage of how items are saved because I was running into an issue with how the current persona tag storage handles synchronous/asynchronous tasks.

 

Also, the work that I am doing is independent of what Aeso is describing here. While the foodcore plugin will interface with the food stuff, it can be worked on congruently which is precisely what is needed as these projects do not happen overnight. There's a lot of tech deficit that we're catching up so updates and patches have been slower than we had hoped as well.

Overall, I think that there's a lot of potential in this plugin to be what people have asked for, an opt-in plugin that does NOT remove anything or prohibit things from happening. I don't know exactly how the rarity stuff will work out, especially with clutter, but I'm sure there will be a cool way to solve that issue and I'm looking forward to see what you come up with for that.

[Aesopian 1639]

48 minutes ago, kuebiko said:

I think this is the way to go about it. I'd rather not have specific recipes implemented or given plugin attention, when those recipes could never bring the roleplay important that say.. a pretend, renamed vanilla piece of bread called "haense hardtack" might. Even though the second brings more roleplay than the former.

 

The plugin is better off having broad, vague foods that are encouraged to be edited. Remember we have things like culimancy too. 

 

If the plugin is implemented it should encourage players to explore their own creativity in food dishes rather than just giving them a pre determined food. 

 

16 minutes ago, Harvest said:

Will we be able to edit the names/descriptions of these items without losing their effects? That would let us keep the ability to have a more specific creation process IRP for the soupmancy crowd.

 

Not only will you still be able to edit the names and descriptions of these items without losing their effects, you will also be able to change the appearance of the item itself -- for example, you could create a custom 'Sutican Duckloaf' with the statistics of a hamburger, but the appearance of a cooked chicken. This is only possible due to recent updates to Minecraft.

 

Players will be able to 'nibble' (shift + starting to eat an item, on a short cooldown) an item to test what its effects are, without actually fully eating it.

[Rayalia 537]

unpopular opinion perhaps? Misread post, maybe? I gave a mildly distracted read through and so I preface the below with a “I don’t actually know anything, this is just my interpretation and I am not opposed to trying new stuff out”. Thoughts below are scatterbrained and attempted constructive critiques. 

I’m hyped for a food addition but… I’m also just tired of the constant grinding. Maybe I’m not reading the post proper but it seems like this is just going to be another spiral into consuming time through mechanical means. I don’t want to spend 1 hour grinding for food so that i can spend 3 hours grinding for metals but I run out of food along the way because I didn’t grind enough to make a full stack of food despite spending so much time on it and my foodbag is glitched so I have to spend another hour grinding for food and then- oop, gotta log. Perhaps I’ve read the post wrong but this seems like a lot of mechanical work for little output unless you’re a dedicated chef rper, in my opinion - which… I suppose is actually the point. But the non-food specific changes affects the whole server, not just cook rpers. I’m aware that vanilla food will still be able to be crafted but the animal husbandry and farming being affected makes me wary considering it affects everything (though without it properly being implemented yet nor experienced I leave humble room for being incorrect). Animal drops are either for pvp stuff or rp items. pvp gear is already so costly (and therefore requires time to collect materials) and we can’t make rp armor/weapons without making the pvp equivalent and nerfing it. I might be making a mountain out of an anthill but every mechanical change this map has made me ever so wary. I’ve never spent this much time before NOT rping so that i can prepare for rp.

 

I’m all for a recipe plugin, I would love to see something that lets characters make cookbooks of their own; save an item to the page so that if you have the associated Minecraft item, you can copy and produce it with a simple click, and then you can share that cookbook with others so that they can make those items too. Pvp perks included akin to potion effects, requiring further mechanical items that delve deeper into the grinding process, always leaving it an option. A good blend of making rp items, needing necessary materials, and encouraging creativity while making it easier and more on theme with niche food rp without imposing anything on the folks of the server that aren’t interested in my opinion.

 

But!! I also love the development of the cooking bits themselves as seen in this post! I think that’ll be quite fun once you do have the necessary materials. I just hope this isn’t being taken a step too far to become detrimental to rp rather than elevating it.

[DancingZebra267 1626]

58 minutes ago, Benleft said:

Yeah it’d be cool to have something like mythic mobs 

Thats what im saying, imagine the freedom and the possibilities... shit.... custom mounts.. more food, etc

[StingyParrot 1595]

idk looks cool I'll make a glowberry steak or whatever

[Eurielle 1189]

So I have a morbillion stacks of steak. I can't even give these things away before they rot.

 

How is clicking on cows with a brush and running to orclands to buy Krugernickle going to make the food actually useful instead of making it even more annoying to get leather ontop of filling chests with rotten flesh?

[Xarkly 17299]

speed potions are not a 'small' benefit

[Aesopian 1639]

1 hour ago, Xarkly said:

speed potions are not a 'small' benefit

Keep in mind, these effects were present in Nexus, and saw no warclaim use.

 

I can nerf it down to like 5 seconds, though.

[LuckyD 141]

Animal husbandry and farming was my entire character concept, I am beyond happy to know that I may be able to have a farm again that has some real meat on it's bones mechanically as something to do while waiting for passerby to chat with.

[Zindran 590]

Time for a proper feedback post!

Let's begin with the foods and brews themselves.

To start off, I believe the having food that gives effects is good on paper, but in practice this would only just be used in PVP. Previous feedback posts wanted less complexity, so while having this would add flavor, it wouldn't be a good addition in the long run. Simpler is better. All the other things such as Rarity, and the stats itself (hunger, perishability, craft time, etc.) are fine.

Brewing also sounds good on paper, but we'll have to wait for a more in-depth post to get a full view on what it'll do, to answer some questions like "will drinking the brews restore hunger?" and so on.

 

Finally, I would personally love a system that would allow us to propose custom foods and ingredients so it can not only feel like the community is able to say "Look! I made more food for us!", but so we can have a more fleshed out selection. People like @Murdervish and others with good cooking knowledge would probably love to have foods that are made with the proper ingredients in the proper stations.

 

Onto farming and animal husbandry.

As someone who did farming a lot back in the Nexus days, this is a breath of fresh air compared to what we had then. The idea of increased growth speed for certain crops in different biomes will, assuming people have reason to plant those crops, make for a very diverse trade system in that case. I don't believe crop speed should be where it stops though, and my two cents is that it should also have a much higher chance for higher quality ingredients when grown in the correct biome to further solidify a reason to grow certain things in certain places.

While the idea of using the same models for certain crops sounds interesting, it could lead to unneeded bloat down the line when someone might think "Oh no, I'm out of grain for my bread! Guess I'll use some rice." which technically does work, but maybe it could be adjusted to show which grain was used, so you would get Bread (normal wheat), Rice Bread (Rice), Cornbread (Corn), etc.

Maybe all crops start as "common", rather than having things as a standard, but keep growth rates the same, with a chance to get higher quality ingredients (I'd like some Legendary Orengrain). Maybe we can grow ingredients for hookah drugs, too? Depending on rarity we could get more wacky effects.

 

Now for Animal Husbandry, I wasn't particularly ever into dealing with animals past breeding and culling.

Apart from that, I do believe that on paper these changes sound both interesting and could lead to people keeping animals for longer to get higher quality ingredients (Imperial Waygu incoming).

One downside to this however lies with the plugin that handles server loads, because currently I really don't see many animals around the map, or have seen any natural spawns recently so while we'd have all these fancy new additions, getting them would be much more difficult than you'd likely expect (please, do we REALLY need to have a plugin to deal with server load instead of optimizing performance?). Server load also makes breeding them much more annoying, because when their AI is off, you need to use a lead on both animals right after giving them the food to actually get children.

I'm also interested in seeing how we'll be able to see what the species of the animal is, and its current age. Will it be something we do to the animal (like shift+right-click) to see their stats?

 

 

Now for a bonus round, a miscellaneous question.
If this plugin also eventually extends to Alchemy, would we have it so the potions have mechanical use, like we had back in Nexus? Would be funny to be in a warclaim and drop a bottle of Cockatrice's Breath into a gate room to temporarily stun those inside, or the attackers throwing one into a knucklebiter to get a reprieve from all the clicks.

[River 555]

My opinion, I think quality over complicates the plugin, the fact that you can have multiple species of crops, and in addition to multiple species, have multiple qualities of the material. I would think having a separate species or crop altogether would be fine enough. A rice crop grows rice, and is uniquely used for specific rice-oriented dishes. Inventory management and the ability to stack items is a pain, even if addressed in the same way a food bag was implemented to help store some food, or the Hooked trash bag, managing it is still a pain.

 

This is why I've been a big proponent of MythicMobs and ModelEngine, because it would have been pretty easy with MythicMobs alone, to make custom crops, get a server resource pack together, make custom growth stages for each of the different crops, and basically expand vanilla. Being represented via visual aids would have gone a long way in actually making one wheat field look differently from another wheat field of a different species. That's a pipe dream however.

 

Also, my personal opinion, but I'd have liked to stray away from GUI based crafting, and move towards in game actions and mechanics only. Interact based events, more interactive and engaging. Everything conveyed to the player via sounds or particles and interacting with the different workstations you have. Crafting the individual components of the dish, or dish prior to cooking it. Allow for horizontal progression with the ability to discover recipes, makes adding new items to the plugin exciting rather than discovering another clickable option in a GUI. 

 

I don't even care about status effects in PvP. I'd personally like to see a variety of foods be incorporated that would have different uses in PvP. There's a reason why in OSRS you carry different kinds of foods, because they have their own purpose in combat. However the player base is sensitive when it comes to PvP, and so I wouldn't venture into making foods that could be utilized in PvP because it will trigger them. I think they'd be fine if there were a method to disable them on the war server. If people use them in skirmishes and battles on main map I could care less, more power to the people who've interacted with that system, people CRP anyways. At least if we ever get some system of mobs that's where I might see the main use-case of buffs coming into play.

 

21 hours ago, Aesopian said:

Should we have setup requirements to not tick your animals off (so they need to be in open air with nearby grass, rather than in a 1x1 cube deep underground)?

 

I honestly don't even think this needs to be asked. Players will obviously vote against this because it will damage their basement farms and goes against their interest and convenience. Everyone and their mother needs to have a set of cows in their basement so they can gather leather and meat to be as self-sufficient as possible.

 

At the cost of preventing someone who actually wants to RP this, or make this a real livelihood in game mechanically and in RP. Represent their mobs in open air fields with grass, add a level of atmospheric immersion. Almost nowhere do you see, in any village/capital, chicken coups with chickens running around, pig pens, horse farms or cow farms, which is a huge missed opportunity for adding another level of detail and immersion to our lands. 

 

Animal Husbandry altogether requires a bit of work and is a separate subject altogether.

 

I'd say fishing is almost at a finished product. It requires a fix to cooked variants, and the ability to specify the tropical fish patterns the individual fish spawn with. Maybe minor tweaks or adjustments but yeah, perhaps reworking food economy altogether or figuring out how to incentivize people to fish instead of relying on steak from cow/leather farming, bread from typical farming run, and monk bread/tater sustainment. 

 

I'd make the argument to work specifically on the farming portion vice the cooking portion and release that first, in a more polished state, then add the cooking aspect later, that's honestly where I think most of the questioning attitude is being directed at, not the actual cooking part, since that's the main grind so to speak.

[River 555]

I think my last post was the criticism and things I'd have liked or wished to see on the server, but let me take a brief moment to at least state the things I liked about the proposed additions so far.

 

Crafting Stations

- Love the idea of separate crafting stations that add the ability to create different kinds of foods, I think this element is a great idea. Wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having multiple crafting stations dependent on the desired outcome. 

- I think if possible, it'd be nice to instead using a custom GUI for the different cooking stations, if it were possible, to utilize current Mojang UI's when clicking these stations, whenever possible, or as I mentioned, attempt to just create a more engaging system reliant on sounds and particles to convey events happening. 

 

Food Quality

- While I stated I didn't think the idea of quality on crops would be the best of ideas, maybe implementing quality on the end-product might be a better implementation decision. The same way nexus bows/swords quality was judged by their damage scaling, or current surge armor quality, the finished dish might be the best approach to implement quality into the plugin.

 

Farming

- I love the idea of different crops being more productive in different biomes. I would suggest that instead of modifying tick-rate, we adjust yield instead because it feels more impactful than tick rate adjustments. 

- While not mentioned in this post, I don't think it's spoiling too much but worth noting since it was something I thoroughly enjoyed seeing, was the planned implementation of player-head crops as potential gatherable items. Being able to farm cabbages, grapes, eggplants, you name it, any playerhead crop item that some builds already use as decorations.

I think this is a perfect and great, immersive touch to farming. This element of the farming portion, I'd really love to see come to fruition and make it to the end product, because it can cut back on having to rely on wheat/carrot/potato/beetroot models, and can make farms look nicer while we're at it. 

[Ardory 2978]

 

 

[Cheezboi9 618]

3 hours ago, Zindran said:

If this plugin also eventually extends to Alchemy, would we have it so the potions have mechanical use, like we had back in Nexus? Would be funny to be in a warclaim and drop a bottle of Cockatrice's Breath into a gate room to temporarily stun those inside, or the attackers throwing one into a knucklebiter to get a reprieve from all the clicks.

Unfortunately this will not happen anytime soon. We can probably get splash potions and call them moltovs but naming anything in our plugins with a lore backing rn is frowned upon by the ST.