[✗] [Amendment] Menhir Craft Tweaks

[SacredSource 397]

REASONING:

In recent years, players have begun to abuse the weight of Eidola and their armaments to try to HEMA or rules-lawyer their way into having them do unnatural amounts of damage. Ultimately, these have been used to promote arguments to force players to take immense hits from a relatively vague and unbalanced piece of lore. As it stands right now, Menhir armaments promote Eidola to goonkill noobs en masse for soul frags, with menhir weapons fundamentally being weighed by the Paleknight players as OHKO metals against inexperienced players, which is ultimately not the intent of the lore.

 

The intent behind this amendment is to clarify the damage done by an Eidola’s armaments rather than leave it up to interpretation; having them only hit as strong as ferrum helps promote the original intent of Eidola, being defensive stalwarts primarily, and not OHKO noob-slaughterers.

 

LORE (Additions in green text):

 

The Menhir Craft
"A weapon fit for me and myself only."

 

While menhir stone provides natural protection to an Eidola’s precious water, that is not the only thing that it is capable of. Through a similar process to changing their forms, Eidolas may reach out and shape menhir stone into any weapon that they so desire. An Eidola may then store this craft in their body’s stone and over the course of two emotes may grasp upon their own stone and pull forth the item. Though not water-filled as the eidola themselves, the weapon still bears a spectral-esque gleam due to it being made from infused stone, thus allowing it to make contact with spectral undead. The craft itself, being of stone, is relatively heavy and oftentimes large for the eidola’s personal use, thus causing attacks with it to be much slower and blunt rather than sharp or quick; however, these will only ever hit with the impact and force of an armament made of ferrum. Most mortals would find it impossible to wield such a weapon, and though an olog or golem may be able to carry such successfully, they would lack the same proficiency as the eidola to which the item belongs. In the case that multiple crafts are made, they must be required to either be on the Eidola or by their menhir where they would not dry up, and while for example two weapons may be made, only one will be able to be stored.

 

One of the noncombative capabilities of this menhirous craft would be that Eidolas may make various objects out of the stone while not in combat. An Eidola may choose to make stone statues out of the material so that they can feign having friendships, or they may choose to make a crown throne for themselves, though even when gifted, these would be incredibly heavy for beings not made of the menhir stone. These crafts can be easily destroyed in three or four hits from a blunt weapon and will occasionally leak water, much like the Eidola who created them. Unlike the weapons, these do “not” require ST signatures but instead must be player signed as to ensure validity.

 

 
Redlines

 

Spoiler

- Menhir weapons can only be made/forged at the Eidola’s menhir and not in combat.
- Menhir weapons must be a single-piece object and cannot be complex to any extent - the most complex allowed being an arbalest.
- Take 2 emotes to summon or pull from their body.
- While multiple weapons may be made, only one can be stored in the Eidola’s stone at a time.
- Crafts that can be used as weapons that are not with the Eidola must be stored at a Menhir to prevent the item from turning to dust.

- Despite bearing a hefty weight, due to their ectoplasmic and unnatural origins, hits targets with the impact and force equivalent to an armament of equivalent stature made from ferrum. Players cannot try to utilize any example of ‘incomprehensible weight’ of the armaments nor make any comparison of outright weight to try to argue that this would do any sort of supernatural damage.
- Eidola naturally generate 1 soul fragment should they land the killing blow, in which the soul fragment visibly flows through the weapon and into the Eidola’s shell.
- Require ST signatures for weapons.
- Noncombative crafts such as statues or items require player signatures unless they are placed blocks in the world, in which case they require a sign nearby explaining what they are.
- Noncombative crafts are limited to three blocks in height and two blocks in width/length.

- Menhir Crafts will melt if met by 3 emotes of malflame or dragonsflame and 5 emotes from fire evocation's flames. This will create a hole where the fire has made contact, and although the same spot must be contacted by the flame to become weakened, the emote timer does not reset should the flames not be constant.

- Menhir craft are four times as heavy as their regular, steel counterparts. As a result, they cannot travel more than [6] blocks when thrown.

- Though menhir crafts could constitute shields or other wieldable tools, they may not constitute armor or anything worn upon the body, or otherwise anything directly increasing the durability of the paleknight.

 

[StingyParrot 1595]

oh god HEMA throws up

[latte 2238]

YEAH LAOSOURCE WOOH

[Mestvin 947]

I do not know the context, but it sounds like another amend after someone's single crp experience. What's next? Olog like beings are supposed to have musin strength? or golems are meant to be as durable as flesh despite being stone?
 

[simatra 373]

guys I talked shit about this but pallo changed my mind, good idea

[Samson Option 9652]

I am not opposed to this at all, but I am going to ask you to show your cards and share screenshots. I generally don't like the premise of vagueposting anecdotally to argue for/against amendments.

[SimonItorp 124]

In terms of lore for Menhir, Menhir is meant to inherently be stronger than ferrum, because it is MAGICAL ROCK. I'm tired of people constantly wanting to nerf something because it is stronger than what they have. At this point, what is the reason to keep Eidola's a thing if there's nothing special about the CA other than glowy rock? 

 

The blatant ignorance for how lore is made is astounding, not to mention that when the consequences of trying to one man army an Eidola doesn't go your way people always seem to find the lore the reason they can't win. Guess what? That's the point. You're not meant to be able to one man army an Eidola, because they are behemoths of magical stone with capabilities beyond your own. Instead of trying to get rid of things that are justifiable in lore maybe try to be more aware of your surroundings. Menhir is in fact stated to be heavier than normal rock, and if you can't account for what that might do to your cranium I don't know if you should be talking.

 

A half metric ton of rock that is heaving around an 80kg rock weapon and swinging it at you with two times the strength of a peak human, that also wields that weapon with finesse because the rock is literally attuned to them, is not meant for you to win unless you have the numbers and equipment. 

The above is accounted for if you are just facing a Pale Knight. Don't get me started on what a Pale Lord would do to your whole body in one swing if we keep to what lore actually justifies and says.

[Hiccup392 724]

I have no stakes in this but I like it because everyone else hates it ☝️

[Wizzar 613]

Perhaps the issue is that Eidola's without the correct augments cannot siphon a soul without killing. That being said, this is seems to break lore and Menhir logic to solve a potential problem that could likely be solved in better ways. I do not think this is a good change. 

[Ardory 2978]

Civil replies in an amendment?

 

[TheHuntedRaven 100]

Why begin this with 'In recent years'? /gen

I have never held this CA though I know those who have it. They have always played true and fair to their characters and confines.

 

This feels like a weapon's lore fix that includes ignoring the material and CA lore. This is like putting a band-aid on a fractured leg.

It's not broken. This seems to be just a post on many counts of [alleged] mistreatment/diagnostics.
Keep in mind there has been a rise in new Pale Knight CAs apps in recent months as well.

 

Rather than simply going to any of the people who have given any CAs, MAs, FAs a lower reputation people instead want to change something that effects everyone in that CA. There are reasons for certain lore being in place and why these CA describes their skills, abilities, or feats. Its what makes them different from an average descendant [and why applications are required].

 

If this is a case of a battle gone wrong and someone is upset... the best in character lesson to learn is to pick your battles more wisely. /lh

-1 to this [no hate].

[Hawkeye_Gough 624]

Hey folks! Palelord here, and one who's a bit of a crp nerd at that... I'm hoping my opinion carries weight?

 

I love the idea of standardizing menhir weapons to give them a unique niche in crp rather than allowing vaguepost nonsense. HOWEVER, an amendment that standardizes the damage of menhir has already passed! I believe meowmaxer made an amendment strictly defining menhir weapons as being 4x the weight of their steel weapon equivalents. This means they have the weight (and thus general capacity) of high density boomsteel - but WITHOUT the added benefits of thunderclap or durability.

 

Anyone trying to rp the incomprehensible weight of menhir to OHKO folks, especially after that change, is already powergaming. I suggest making reports on such lore misuse, because people doing that may not stop just because another amendment asks them to.

 

As for THIS amendment, it seems to take away rather than rebalance to the niche of menhir. Slower and more fragile than other metals, and without any unique bonus? It's not necessarily invalid, but I'd love to see a unique aspect to menhir craft that affects crp to compliment the bulky and slow nature of the weapons. If not weight, maybe a unique interaction with hexing?

[FlemishSupremacy 6115]

3 hours ago, SimonItorp said:

80kg

With the strength that Eidola currently have, they should not be able to wield an 80 kg weapon as if it were a normal weapon though, and there HAVE been instances where constructs are going 'my weapon is so heavy that my stone sword one hit KOs your horse through his armor'. I'm not sure if making them equivalent to ferrum weapons isn't a bit too overkill, but I do understand the sentiment behind this amendement. That said, a ferrum warhammer swung at you with orc strength should be pretty damn nasty by default. 

If anything, you bringing up that it's an 80kg weapon despite a paleknight, at best, having 2x the strength of a human, but wielding it like it's the same weight as a 4 kg warhammer is wielded by a human, is the entire reason for this amendement. 
It worries me that you mention wielding it with finesse when your lore directly states otherwise, though.

"The craft itself, being of stone, is relatively heavy and oftentimes large for the eidola’s personal use, thus causing attacks with it to be much slower and blunt rather than sharp or quick."

After reading your reply, I do think @Hawkeye_Goughmight be right that this is an issue of PGing.

Also, really don't think you ought to be so hostile to someone for posting an amendement you disagree with, especially given the above. 

[Pallodium 3775]

This lore has been denied.

 

This went to an internal vote and did not pass.