War And 'gm Incompetance'

[kwakamungus 68]

Whats done is done and cant be changed but i do think that there has been some misinterpretation in between the people in charge of this event and the gms who were watching and helping with it. i have also heard that mogroka had spawned 10 stacked golden axes to fight with which i think is abuses of gm powers and should be dealt with.

[E__V__O 2000]

Although this did not go as planed as greatly discussed OOC and IC I do think that this should be pardoned, I am not taking sides it is just that both sides of this as Syrio being upset of being spawned killed yes and lost the battle but I am sure resp was listening very carfully at the statement and did a simple mistake As both sides where tired as taking inot state that Resp's timezone must of been at least 4-5am so he could of been tired but stayed up to help Syrio and others, I do belive both side made mistakes but although it should go as a pardon for both sides and things no to get out of hand,

Thank you

~ttwesten

[HappyShackles 886]

Right. It's no single person's fault ever. Either Respiren or Syrio completely relinquishing all blame is ludicrous. In fact, I deserve part of the blame for starting the damn war.

Best option is always to just be mature about it and not say anything or not respond or retaliate. If all parties practiced this, no one would care who is to "blame" and we could all move on.

[Kanrath 190]

Alras won, just to make that clear. And Syrio was not doing this out of his ego or because we lost, as some of you high and mighty people have posted. He was doing it out of the rage one feels when one is tossed into the ring without warning with both hands tied behind ones back while the ref looks on in confusion.

Now yes, the words used were harsh and uncalled for and blaming it on the gm team misguided, but was any rant at all uncalled for? Well I can imagine the rage and confusion one finds them self in when one is in a situation where your opponent is spawn camping you without any rp leading up to it at all. Because I know I sure as hell would be pissed having the entire idea behind war decs tossed out the window by an army that was not listed as an ally of Salvus and had not declared its intentions to fight us to anyone including the gms, both I might add most of Alras hopes will still lead to lead to some good rp later down the road. If their intention had at least been informed to the Gms some good rp may have occurred including but not limited to trying to talk Hanseti/Alras out of their actions, trying to come to some kind of agreement or simply some banter. Of which, we scored 0/3. And then on top of that having the gms present unable/unwilling to step in, most likely due to a combination of confusion and some unwillingness to step in and force rp on players you can imagine the rage he might have felt.

Though such action was again more due to the fact the gms likely lost track of what was going on as soon as Hanseti decided to swarm the arriving Alras army then some malicious desire to see Alras loose knowing the gm team and Respiren's desire for a more enjoyable and fairly rped war.

Unfortunately for Hanseti, Alras is dangerous enough on even grounds, corner them into an unenjoyable horribly rped corner and you may as well ask for your throat to be ripped out.

Do you honestly think Alras would of landed on the shore when it saw Hanseti's entire army waiting for it armed and facing the ship? I doubt your logic, as anyone would of at least inquired to what they were doing there and what was going on before they landed, and then it would not have been 1 or 2 at a time, AGAIN more rp that was denied by Hanseti's eagerness to start pvp knowing they had the upper hand.

So in short, it's not Syrio's or the GM teams fault such a situation occurred, but a combination of confusion and Hanseti's desire to pvp an enemy clearly at an OOC disadvantage without any attempt to have any rp. The fact they didn't even take the time to check what was going on with the GM's and simply started attacking should be highly frowned on by the gm team.

As for the entire idea of cannon bombardment, having read Respiren's post below me well I can see now why none occurred. Far as he knew when he looked at the isle there were no enemies for us to bombard with said cannons.

Though, it should of been up to Alras where they were going to land IC wise. One does not simply let a big giant hand pick them up and place them in a situation where they were surrounded by enemy forces clearly showing hostile intent. Though until Alras troops landed no one had any clue to the fact Hanseti was there as an enemy which made the entire thing a lot worse.

Though it sounds more like Respiren was blind sided with the responsibility of the entire battle without any real information from either side to work with, which must of been one hell of a headache. I mean...not being told by Hanseti they were changing sides and such before the fight to at least let the Gm team know what was happening, seriously bad form old sport. Though I suppose they may have not told the gms to avoid any chance of rp that would have resulted in Alras figuring out the situation when they saw an entire armed and ready army waiting for them at shore.

But, why on earth would they do that? (Sarcastic}

[Respiren 524]

I spoke with the two gm's who were over-seeing and coordinating this event and asked them, You just allowed the opposing faction to be Spawn Killed by the Defending faction, do you believe that that is alright and fun for anyone other then the defending faction of course? It was a long drawn out argument which resulted in me getting told that "It is my fault that I didn't say that I didn't want to be spawn killed by the defending faction".

No, your words were, GM's are Incompetent and wrecked the event. Yes the event may have been much better if it was from the ship to the shore - yet nothing was communicated to me in regards to doing this, and your reaction was appalling.

The Alrasians themselves seemed confused that they were attacked by the Hanseti thinking they had gone to the wrong area ,this I think, was the intent of those that attacked, surprise. The defending faction that attacked were considered allies under the claims, and the Salvasian defenders were somewhere else to my knowledge. No moderator was informed any differently, and their presence and actions were a surprise to us too.

There was no 'bombardment' because Mog and Seventh were not present to make this possible and nothing to bombard when I checked the island.

And yes I don't believe you can blame me or the other GM's solely because you didn't spawn where you wished to - you were told you would fast travel from the boat to the shore several times, it only became disagreeable when you died.

[MediocreGamer 838]

it only became disagreeable when you died.

I died 10 minutes after we had landed due to some guy who was running around the aftermath of the battle hitting random people, but it is quite cute seeing that as a response, I'd bet if we had lost that battle you would've stated that all this fuss is because we lost, just shows that you do not have the mentality to handle situations such as that, hell I probably wouldn't have the mentality either.

[Song Druid 1486]

I died 10 minutes after we had landed due to some guy who was running around the aftermath of the battle hitting random people, but it is quite cute seeing that as a response, I'd bet if we had lost that battle you would've stated that all this fuss is because we lost, just shows that you do not have the mentality to handle situations such as that, hell I probably wouldn't have the mentality either.

Point and case.

[Respiren 524]

I died 10 minutes after we had landed due to some guy who was running around the aftermath of the battle hitting random people, but it is quite cute seeing that as a response, I'd bet if we had lost that battle you would've stated that all this fuss is because we lost, just shows that you do not have the mentality to handle situations such as that, hell I probably wouldn't have the mentality either.

'It only became disagreeable when you died'

This is simply factual.

My point is this. It was mentioned several times that the fast travel would be to the shore and nobody saw fit to tell me they wished to spawn on the boat - whether this was simply from not listening, distraction or people assuming it wasn't necessary I do not know. Yet it only became an issue when you decided to vent your frustrations and call GM's incompetent in response to the battle that ensued.

I'd bet if we had lost that battle you would've stated that all this fuss is because we lost

If you lost the battle I would have offered a do-over, in the same way I offered to organize a do-over at the time in order to placate your dissatisfaction, which you and others turned down saying, No it's too late, and I don't wish to, we won.

you do not have the mentality to handle situations such as that

It's your mentality of recrimination, disrespect and scorn towards GM's because the event did not happen as you wished, that is at issue, and the situation I have difficulty dealing with - since normally I would simply ban someone who continued on with this attitude.

[MediocreGamer 838]

'It only became disagreeable when you died'

This is simply factual.

Is that why everyone that was in teamspeak at the time said "Who fucked up" as soon as we teleported?

"This is simply factual"

[Nico 121]

So from my understanding, this whole thread was made to yell at each other about a problem that could of easily been talked over in a PRIVATE Teamspeak Channel but you, Respiren, had brought it over to the public forums where new players could see the amount of flaming and misconduct that the server is showing currently. I don't understand this. This is a matter between you, Respiren and Syrio. No one else should be involved with this. Quite frankly I find this whole thread absolutely stupid and pointless.

[MediocreGamer 838]

So from my understanding, this whole thread was made to yell at each other about a problem that could of easily been talked over in a PRIVATE Teamspeak Channel but you, Respiren, had brought it over to the public forums where new players could see the amount of flaming and misconduct that the server is showing currently. I don't understand this. This is a matter between you, Respiren and Syrio. No one else should be involved with this. Quite frankly I find this whole thread absolutely stupid and pointless.

As do I mate, I even just told Respiren we'll Agree to disagree the night of the incident and he has harassed me ever since, asking for an apology, he sent my skype name a friend request saying that he is still waiting for his apology, I of course ignored it and now when I log on to teamspeak whilst he is on he sends me PM's telling me to apologize to him the harassment was to the point to where I have muted him on teamspeak. This behavior is appauling but he has always acted as such and will continue to do so as he is an asset to LoTC, this was stated when we had a google document of mishaps that occured about two and a half months ago and about fifty lord of the craft members stating that Respiren is unfit for GM duties, he was demoted at the current time I believe to silence the crowd but then promoted again at a later date to continue on doing what he does.

[Respiren 524]

Is that why everyone that was in teamspeak at the time said "Who fucked up" as soon as we teleported

"This is simply factual"

Surprisingly your public answer to the question of 'who fucked up?' was the 'GM's like Respiren because he's incompetent and a child'

Rather than a response considering why the event didn't work, that would be productive if addressed, over childishly allotting blame.

'Everyone involved because the war was a disorganized shamble, where no-one communicated properly with the GM's, or made cooperative organised plans with the other players involved as requested, being too focused on winning, potential meta-gaming and themselves than having a working event everyone could enjoy.

People wanted the spontainaeity and dynamism and 'realism' of a poorly organized, non-cooperative conquest driven war, though if you want wars like that, you should expect outcomes like this, agression, and GM's being unable to magically know what's going on and make everything work. You'll know to listen next time, even if you have no respect for GM's, or you will continue to be frustrated.

[Samson Option 9652]

Alras won, just to make that clear. And Syrio was not doing this out of his ego or because we lost, as some of you high and mighty people have posted. He was doing it out of the rage one feels when one is tossed into the ring without warning with both hands tied behind ones back while the ref looks on in confusion.

It is ironic how you attempt to defame certain players, whether I am of this ill-thought classification or not as 'high and mighty', yet you started this reply off sounding similar; albeit I give you benefit of the doubt as this is the Internet and I do not wish to interpret the tone of this reply egocentrically. I will only speak for myself as saying that I was not directly claiming MediocreGamer as 'egotistical'.

Now yes, the words used were harsh and uncalled for and blaming it on the gm team misguided, but was any rant at all uncalled for? Well I can imagine the rage and confusion one finds them self in when one is in a situation where your opponent is spawn camping you without any rp leading up to it at all. Because I know I sure as hell would be pissed having the entire idea behind war decs tossed out the window by an army that was not listed as an ally of Salvus and had not declared its intentions to fight us to anyone including the gms, both I might add most of Alras hopes will still lead to lead to some good rp later down the road. If their intention had at least been informed to the Gms some good rp may have occurred including but not limited to trying to talk Hanseti/Alras out of their actions, trying to come to some kind of agreement or simply some banter. Of which, we scored 0/3. And then on top of that having the gms present unable/unwilling to step in, most likely due to a combination of confusion and some unwillingness to step in and force rp on players you can imagine the rage he might have felt.

You can attempt to claim that I do this for some imaginary vested interest in Hanseti, but I actually do this objectively, so you sit here insisting that Hanseti had no right to betray the Coalition after realizing intentions? Perhaps you had not thought that razing entire cities and towns were not in the best interest of some within your circle, you insist that it has to go your way, but through Roleplay, Hanseti forced it to go their way as they have full control of their characters. There is no such thing as binding their characters to your will.

Though such action was again more due to the fact the gms likely lost track of what was going on as soon as Hanseti decided to swarm the arriving Alras army then some malicious desire to see Alras loose knowing the gm team and Respiren's desire for a more enjoyable and fairly rped war.

Unfortunately for Hanseti, Alras is dangerous enough on even grounds, corner them into an unenjoyable horribly rped corner and you may as well ask for your throat to be ripped out.

As ex-Hochmeister, I can tell you that the Teutonic Order do not convolute with GMs, especially Respiren who was a bit against my concept in the first place. State evidence or admit your making a poor-tasting assumption on that note. As for the second paragraph, no one honestly cares OOCly if Alras wants to flex it's pecs, but do not flaunt them, it is a tad pitiful.

Do you honestly think Alras would of landed on the shore when it saw Hanseti's entire army waiting for it armed and facing the ship? I doubt your logic, as anyone would of at least inquired to what they were doing there and what was going on before they landed, and then it would not have been 1 or 2 at a time, AGAIN more rp that was denied by Hanseti's eagerness to start pvp knowing they had the upper hand.

Yep, they would have landed with the presumption that the Black Cross were simply awaiting Alras's arrival for more 'numerical advantages' with the combined forces, but then again your own egocentricism reveals itself with your poor logical justification to defend against the action occurring. Do you have evidence to back your poor-tasting assumption once again that Hanseti just loves to PvP?

So in short, it's not Syrio's or the GM teams fault such a situation occurred, but a combination of confusion and Hanseti's desire to pvp an enemy clearly at an OOC disadvantage without any attempt to have any rp. The fact they didn't even take the time to check what was going on with the GM's and simply started attacking should be highly frowned on by the gm team.

Except that the Game Moderators did not want to impede on a mutiny from the Coalition.

As for the entire idea of cannon bombardment, having read Respiren's post below me well I can see now why none occurred. Far as he knew when he looked at the isle there were no enemies for us to bombard with said cannons.

Though, it should of been up to Alras where they were going to land IC wise. One does not simply let a big giant hand pick them up and place them in a situation where they were surrounded by enemy forces clearly showing hostile intent. Though until Alras troops landed no one had any clue to the fact Hanseti was there as an enemy which made the entire thing a lot worse.

Though it sounds more like Respiren was blind sided with the responsibility of the entire battle without any real information from either side to work with, which must of been one hell of a headache. I mean...not being told by Hanseti they were changing sides and such before the fight to at least let the Gm team know what was happening, seriously bad form old sport. Though I suppose they may have not told the gms to avoid any chance of rp that would have resulted in Alras figuring out the situation when they saw an entire armed and ready army waiting for them at shore.

I betrayed the Dwarven Alliance in Aegis, never told the Game Moderators about it, is this a problem?

[PtahWithin 1320]

Gaius,

Whether or not Hanseti chooses to deal with GMs, they must.

[Samson Option 9652]

Gaius,

Whether or not Hanseti chooses to deal with GMs, they must.

I never said they shouldn't, but Hanseti did collaborate with the GMs in terms of making a war claim, they staked their claim into this war, it is legitimate that they have a Roleplay-Change of Heart.