Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[hammer01 29]

Just because bacteria's cytoplasmic shell is more resistant or resistant to the antibiotic does not mean it can't absorb nutrients. Unless you do biology don't start assuming things about bacteria and virus. I never said it can't absorb things well, I said its cytoplasmic shell was more resistant to the chemical products released by the antibiotic. Furthermore, lets go from the fact I don't think evolution is true.

-Doesn't think evolution exists-

-Studies bacteria to figure out how they become immune to antibiotics-

-Finds the reason and writes a report-

 

That report would be the one I wrote... The fact is: That is how it works, no matter what point of view you look at it.

Actually, I'll put it this way. Offer to me an explanation as to in which other way that bacteria became immune to an antibiotic. If you can't disprove this theory correctly, I have trumped the accusation that evolution does not exist, because this proves beyond reasonable doubt that evolution exists.

Actually i do do biology, so yes i do know what i am talking about. The cytoplasmic shell is also the way that nutrients are absorbed. So in this, i am right. If you studied the cell, you would see that i am right.

 

You are talking about micro-evolution, which i have no arguement with. I do not agree with macro-evolution, which is much different than micro...

[Lego XBOX 915]

Unfortunately, what you are saying is now contradicting. You say you are right, but before you said I was wrong, but if you do biology, you'd know that what I said in the first place was right. So you have been stalling for the past posts and now you finally agree with me...

 

Lets see... if evolution exists in the microscopic level, how could you deny its existence in the macroscopic level? All you have to do is increase the time frame. The same mechanics influence us as it does bacteria. Genetic mutations affect us as much as it does to bacteria.

Can you disprove that? I'll point out that if you have done biology, you will have studied evolution in the form of drosophile flies. They aren't considered microscopic and they do evolve as well.

 

Please, micro and macro evolution is only different by timeframe, nothing else.
 

[Jistuma 1996]

Found the above quote in that same document you gave me...

I showed you the fossils of the directly descended from the humans in another post. Australopithecus are infact not direct decendents from humans, they are one of the paralel species. There was a time where they thought they were part of the decendancy, but that is how science works, it tests things over and over again, and if it is found something is wrong, then they accept it, and find the truth. If you want a direct decendent from humans, try Homos Sapiens, as our specie is Homos Sapiens Sapiens. (This from my school teachings so it might be wrong by now, it was like 10 years ago)

[cj_scout 305]

As opposed to my previous comment of believing in cheese, I believe in Logical Creation. So heres my theory, sure, people say Earth was from the Big Bang. That was with all the stuff that already did exist. But what did THAT come from? Just POOF into existence? No. . .It had to have been made, manufactured, CREATED! And you may say "But science" No but science. Science says nothing of the universe being created BEFORE the Big Bang. So essentially, if not creationism, then your belief is that everything came from nothing. And another point on evolution. In all but a few cases, Evolution to a new brand of a creature runs out the previous. If we came from chimps, but we're SO different, why do we still have chimps? And evolution is SMALL STAGES! We can't just go from hairy non-sentient beings to what we are now. Again I ask you, if not from something unnatural, something of higher power, then what? I believe Science proves SOME things previously and some such still believed by religions wrong, but there is still the question. WE had to have come from something bigger than us, more powerful than us. To exist is to be created. . .to be destroyed is impossible. Science and religion CAN mend people. I am just as Christian as any other, but I am open to logical conclusions. And please, do not try to change that. Just give a response to this, you don't have to ridicule me.

[hammer01 29]

As opposed to my previous comment of believing in cheese, I believe in Logical Creation. So heres my theory, sure, people say Earth was from the Big Bang. That was with all the stuff that already did exist. But what did THAT come from? Just POOF into existence? No. . .It had to have been made, manufactured, CREATED! And you may say "But science" No but science. Science says nothing of the universe being created BEFORE the Big Bang. So essentially, if not creationism, then your belief is that everything came from nothing. And another point on evolution. In all but a few cases, Evolution to a new brand of a creature runs out the previous. If we came from chimps, but we're SO different, why do we still have chimps? And evolution is SMALL STAGES! We can't just go from hairy non-sentient beings to what we are now. Again I ask you, if not from something unnatural, something of higher power, then what? I believe Science proves SOME things previously and some such still believed by religions wrong, but there is still the question. WE had to have come from something bigger than us, more powerful than us. To exist is to be created. . .to be destroyed is impossible. Science and religion CAN mend people. I am just as Christian as any other, but I am open to logical conclusions. And please, do not try to change that. Just give a response to this, you don't have to ridicule me.

Thank you for summing up everything i have been trying to say on this thread.

[Jistuma 1996]

As opposed to my previous comment of believing in cheese, I believe in Logical Creation. So heres my theory, sure, people say Earth was from the Big Bang. That was with all the stuff that already did exist. But what did THAT come from? Just POOF into existence? No. . .It had to have been made, manufactured, CREATED! And you may say "But science" No but science. Science says nothing of the universe being created BEFORE the Big Bang. So essentially, if not creationism, then your belief is that everything came from nothing.

So far so good, it's a good way to see things, we don't know what happened before the big bang, probably won't for many many many years, and you may believe any that you wish about it.

 

[edit] Oh my... I completely misread that. Earth wasn't from the big bang, the universe was. Made and manufactured are horrible words to use, they are used for things that are built, not for things that form. Planets form naturally, and they obey the natural laws and theories. creationism is the belief that humans were created by a higher being, not that the universe was, at least when creationism is compared to evolution. But ye, I don't see nothing wrong in believing something created the something that formed the universe, we don't know any of that yet.

[/edit]

 

 

 

And another point on evolution. In all but a few cases, Evolution to a new brand of a creature runs out the previous.

Now comes the wrong things... Evolution can create new species without the last one disapearing. A specie only evolves when natural selection is in acting, if most of the beings of that specie don't actualy die because of huge amount of food, water, mating processes, sun, etc, then the specie doesn't change (much). If part of the specie moves to another location where food is scarce, natural selection will start to take it's toe, and the specie will begin to change until they are no longer considered the same as they were before.

If we came from chimps, but we're SO different, why do we still have chimps?

I ask you to research a few things before you do these questions. Please... goggle that question, you will find duzens of answers. This is one of the WORST questions you can ask someone who knows about eolution, normally they just find that the person has absolutly no knowledge of evolution and are just ranting, then they don't lose time explaining. But I will. Humans did NOT come from chimps. Chimps and Humans have a common ancester which then evolved, creating different species, one of them being Humans, another Chimps, and apes, monkeys, etc etc etc. And as I said before, a specie can evolve and part of it still exist without changing.

And evolution is SMALL STAGES! We can't just go from hairy non-sentient beings to what we are now.

Evolutions is small changes over a long, long, long time. So many small changes that the specie is no longer the same. It took "2.3 to 2.4 million years" (from the wiki), from going from the first specie of the Homo genus (primates and the like), to Homo sapien (humans).

Again I ask you, if not from something unnatural, something of higher power, then what?

Something natural which can be observable and studied and which there are tons and tons of proof about. Evolution does so.

I believe Science proves SOME things previously and some such still believed by religions wrong, but there is still the question.

Science proves a lot more than some things. Look all around you, you will find NOTHING which science hasn't studied and shown proofs about. From the electricity in your pc, to all the components in your pc, to your lights, to the wood in your desk, to why the walls were built, and even on why you do not float.

WE had to have come from something bigger than us, more powerful than us. To exist is to be created. . .to be destroyed is impossible. Science and religion CAN mend people. I am just as Christian as any other, but I am open to logical conclusions. And please, do not try to change that. Just give a response to this, you don't have to ridicule me.

These are beliefs and I have nothing against that, but remember that there are explanations outside of the regilious ones, backed up by lots of prove and study of many men in the last 300 (I forgot when it started, I might be wrong on the time) years, which has been checked over and over again.

There are still many things which are not known to us, I am right now reading a book which speaks of many things about life, and I have seen him state a few times "This is only a hipotesis", "This has not been confirmed yet", "It is believed that", "There is a lot of discussion between scienties about this", and many more. Yet, while he does say that about many things, it is of the kind of "This is proven, this detail here is proven, this detail of the detail is proven, this detail of the detail of the detail is being discussed between scientists". It's of the kind of "Evolution happens, evolution has been checked by the fossil records, evolution of this tiny being has been confirmed to DNA, and similarities from the fossils, the scientists are not yet sure what was the change that happened to make the being start evolving, some say it was a volcano, others say it was because the lakes dried up, others say other things". Then there are the complicated things, the details of the details of the details of DNA for example, expecially on how they work. There will always be more to study, even in things like matter.

I hope I helped.

 

[edit]

I want to ask you something. I want you to tell me, what you believe evolution is, what you think it does, how do you think it acts, what you think the proofs are. After you answer, I will say on which part you are wrong, and then tell you the correct information. After that, I would ask you to think once more and try to find once more the things that you do not like about evolution, and tell me about them.

[Amorphbutt 199]

what if, the universe was just born from the death of the last one (That is if there was a last one, which was likely), basically recycling everything but in a different form?

[cj_scout 305]

I do realize some things I said on evolution I typed incorrectly. What you corrected it to was what I meant to say. It was typed very hurriedly. On the case of previous species staying, Yes, that IS possible, but my point is, if we keep the originals, even then, what happened to what was in between? There's just SO MUCH missing and yet people so quickly conclude "there is no go, science explains all". Until the day we fully understand, such a theory is just that, a theory, as any religion is. But the different between Religion and Theories? Faith. Faith in what we were taught. Faith in the one who created us. Faith in what little there is to have faith in! I am sure I speak for many of us religious people when I say that faith is a thought from the heart, a theory is a thought from the brain. When our heart tells us what is right, what is wrong, that is what we believe. And that is how it is for ANY ONE. The heart and the brain both mend and clash in our moral and spiritual beliefs. Evolution, religion, big bang, all that, its all on perspective. And with that, it is time I leave, for this has me riled up a bit. Not mad at you of course just. . .invoked to do otherwise less controversial activities. Farewell, and I hope some day you share our faith. Don't worry, I won't go on the whole "You're going to hell" rant. Goodbye.

[JtPv 140]

First things first, glad to see this thread revived. 

Now.

I actually found a couple of questions about evolution I would like answered. 

1. Throughout the history of science, life has always come from life, and all attempts at creating it have failed....miserably. Now, I know people usually blame this on mutations, but life itself is very complicated, and personally, I just can't accept that the body, with all the stuff that works together, is something that happened due to chance.

 

2. If the laws of physics say that matter cannot be created or destroyed, how did an explosion create it? (Although this goes more to Big Bang theory, it's still a confusing question...)

 

[Jistuma 1996]

First things first, glad to see this thread revived. 

Now.

I actually found a couple of questions about evolution I would like answered. 

1. Throughout the history of science, life has always come from life, and all attempts at creating it have failed....miserably. Now, I know people usually blame this on mutations, but life itself is very complicated, and personally, I just can't accept that the body, with all the stuff that works together, is something that happened due to chance.

 

2. If the laws of physics say that matter cannot be created or destroyed, how did an explosion create it? (Although this goes more to Big Bang theory, it's still a confusing question...)

 

Read my post when I started to talk more about evolution. I will talk about evolution details, not on the other theories much.

 

About point 1. That is abiogenises, not evolution. But self replicating molecules have been created, which is the start of life.

 

ABout point 2. That is the big bang theory, not evolution. But you said it went about another theory, so I explain what I know. Pretty much... We have no idea what happened before the big bang. The big bang is the expansion of time and space, all matter and energy which exists in the universe right now, existed in the big bang.

[hammer01 29]

Read my post when I started to talk more about evolution. I will talk about evolution details, not on the other theories much.

 

About point 1. That is abiogenises, not evolution. But self replicating molecules have been created, which is the start of life.

 

ABout point 2. That is the big bang theory, not evolution. But you said it went about another theory, so I explain what I know. Pretty much... We have no idea what happened before the big bang. The big bang is the expansion of time and space, all matter and energy which exists in the universe right now, existed in the big bang.

So you are basing your belief in the big bang theory on faith, knowing that matter cannot be made nor destroyed? Sounds a lot like how I come to my belief in God... I dont really see a difference here... anyway, ill probably not post here, just because this post makes me mad...

[Haz 35]

Such a topic of debate is rather pointless, you cannot 'prove' anything - you can only hope to submit 'evidence' (i.e. pseudo-evidence) which supports these ideologies.

 

It is completely illogical to even begin arguing as one is a belief and another is a theory, they are completely different things; you cannot argue against a belief, it's a belief!

Does such a debate benefit anyone in anyway? Not really. People already accept that evolution was something that happened, not because there is 'proof' but because it can be used to explain various types of phenomenon that occur in modern society. Can faith do this? No. It serves no benefit other than for one's self, whereas the idea of evolution allows us to begin to understand animal (inc. human) behaviour and can help explain certain characteristics of practically everything that is a living organism.

In the end, it is better if we think that evolution happened. Why? Because it's essential for our understanding of life.
Is faith? Beliefs? Is it crucial? No. It is important for understanding of self (and also to form a para-social relationship with an invisible giant grey-beardy man in the sky who likes to sit on a cloud and sing 'Singing in the Rain').

I am not saying there is no greater being. Just that it serves no purpose to believe in a greater being or to focus upon "Does a divine creator tower above us and watch over us?" It serves no benefit to us in our modern day and age unless priests were suddenly granted divine powers to cure mass disease and prevent famine. Is that likely?

...I don't think so.

Basically: Neither the belief nor theory can be proven, regardless of whatever 'evidence' you propose, a theory is never considered 'proven' and beliefs are not meant to be 'proven' anyway. Again... They are two very different things.

 

I believe that most people on this planet are probably born without a brain - does this serve a function to me? No, but it's an important ideology to me, it helps me to dictate how I should associate myself with other people and how I conduct myself in social relationships. It does not help me to understand, however.

I do however think of many different theories such as evolution, behaviorism and cognitive-psychology to be partially true as it serves a function to do so. They help me to understand why a person might conduct themselves as they do and what could've led them to make a certain decision. Does it help my own self? No. It doesn't dictate how I look at the world, they do not dictate my moral or ethical code.

To summarize:

• Belief is important for one's self. It helps a person to discover their identity and belonging in the world, belief is not simply limited to religion. It helps a man construct his morals, his 'code'. It allows us to build strong social connections with others with whom we think share a similar belief to our own, it is important for society to have beliefs and morality.
• Theory serves to help us understand the mechanics of the world and the creatures within it. It allows us to create new medicines and diversify technology; it is important for advancing as a collective being and allows us to move forward technologically and economically.

They are both important things and very different things, they should not be compared to each other as they serve different functions.

There is no 'Creation or Evolution'. There are always multiple ways to approach, to understand and look at things - to simplify something to the extent of 'Creation of Evolution' is simply medieval, quite literally. Our modern way of thinking is not that primitive, is it? No - we are beyond that, or at least should be.

You should be thinking 'What has contributed to the creation of our world and the creation of us as a species?' The answer is many things my friend, there is no singular answer, there is no 'Creation of Evolution'.

That is all.

[Jistuma 1996]

So you are basing your belief in the big bang theory on faith, knowing that matter cannot be made nor destroyed? Sounds a lot like how I come to my belief in God... I dont really see a difference here... anyway, ill probably not post here, just because this post makes me mad...

What? Big Bang theory for me is based on my faith that scientists know what they are doing and try to find the truth. On the other hand, unlike you, I can search "Proof of big bang theory" on google and get results I can read about, check the sources, check what has been done, and read the proofs colected. That would be a difference between my faith in the work of scientists and yours on god, thought I have nothing against you believing in god, you may believe him and still accept the proofs about evolution. You do know there are many christians who believe in evolution and god at the same time?

 

Either way, I stated that we do not know what came before the bigbang, it is unknown.

 

[edit] Interesting read Haz, but I will still be here to answer and try to teach any that want and to correct those who say wrong things as for others to not get wrong information.

[Haz 35]

What? Big Bang theory for me is based on my faith that scientists know what they are doing and try to find the truth. On the other hand, unlike you, I can search "Proof of big bang theory" on google and get results I can read about, check the sources, check what has been done, and read the proofs colected. That would be a difference between my faith in the work of scientists and yours on god, thought I have nothing against you believing in god, you may believe him and still accept the proofs about evolution. You do know there are many christians who believe in evolution and god at the same time?

 

Either way, I stated that we do not know what came before the bigbang, it is unknown.

 

[edit] Interesting read Haz, but I will still be here to answer and try to teach any that want and to correct those who say wrong things as for others to not get wrong information.

Are you suggesting that a person's beliefs can be 'wrong'?

[Jistuma 1996]

Are you suggesting that a person's beliefs can be 'wrong'?

I only speak to those that state wrong things about evolution and beliefs about evolution can be based on bad information. If others believe in god, or that god created things, or guided, I do not coment. But when in their posts they give their reasons for such beliefs and some of those reasons are wrong facts about things, then I correct those facts, and maybe the belief might change, or it might not.