Armor Concept.

[Aerinyes 402]

The problem we have here is circle kiting. 20v20, archers vs melee/archer-melee hybrid.

Now the first issue at hand here is the melee/melee-archer hybrid force has to be extremely organized to pull anything off. The archer team can run around like a boss firing randomly and still win, where as the melee team has to really work together. But that aside, lets take a city invasion:

Now, under normal circumstances, the Archers can circle kite. You will chase them around the city until you die or meet and draw. Can circle kiting be prevented? Yes, a well organized team of melee units, which for a melee-to-melee range line across the city limits could advanced slowly and force an archer unit to kite themselves out of the city (assuming you have enough people to stretch the length of the city with no gaps and that you have a way to keep the archers from circling around to the side you entered from and re-establishing from behind you. The latter is easily possible, the former depends on the situation). Now the issue at hand here: If the archers have the same level of organization you do (I.E. the playing field is fair) the archers can focus-fire one point, and shatter your line. Thus allowing for infinite circle kiting.

Basically, an objective does not permit success because kiting can be multi-directional and you require a notable and unfair advantage to overcome the enemy, such as vastly superior organization.

If you've ever played MechWarrior Living Legends in one of their terrain control matches, you'd see just how bad kiting actually can be in a base offense or base defense. Slow big mechs with LBXs (extremely short range weapons) are still effective in defense against smaller faster long ranged mechs. Basically what happens is that fast little guy HAS to come into range in order to take the base.

I'd imagine city/area defense here would work the same. Say you have an army of leather clad archers, ready to kite their little asses off. If they never enter a fort/city, they can't take it.

On the flip side, if they are defending, eventually they are going to have armor clad swordsman in their faces. Of course this is assuming the attacking force utilized cover properly. Perhaps even using covered rams to gain access.

Unorganized mobs will unfortunately get torn up by archers. I believe this is intended.

Yes the majority of the server fights in random mobs, inflicting as many casualties on themselves as they do the enemy. For example in the war against Salvus, the orcs and humans just couldn't sit still prior to the battle. They were running around hopping around restless as hell. And in battle they just charged forward left clicking wildly.

Armies like that should lose against any sliver of tactics. Right now, I think they would and would lose badly. Armies that can march with disciplined players in ranks and columns should have the advantage.

I still think we should see a couple of war battles happen before making judgment on the new system. A few of us that have ideas of tactics at the moment are ready to try them against the majority of the playerbase that consists of 14-18 year olds that cannot resist the urge to space bar and parkour whenever nothing is happening for more then 5 minutes.

[Blawharag 277]

The difference here though is that the big heavy guys have no way to force a gap close. We are talking cities here, not command posts. It's easy to say "Eventually the archers will find a swordsman in their face" but in practicality, even if that does happen, they can turn around and walk away, never taking damage beyond that. Lets look at the two situations you described:

Archers on Offense

This is easier to work around than it seems. Archers can fire up onto defensive structures like walls all day. Now, granted they have to get up onto the walls, but once they are up they are done. Unless it is one on one, the archers need only swarm the walls and get over by a zerg. No organization needed. Once even one or two get inside, they are free to infinite kite within the confines of the city, any initial damage they might have taken zerging is now null and void and you either give chase (clearing more openings in the walls) and fail to kill any archers or you give up and let them ransack your city freely. Perhaps you can stalemate them and they will never capture your city, but you certainly can't force them out. Strip your armor if you'd like, they will just pincushion you on approach with their ranged weaponry.

Archers on Defense

First, you are now storming the walls underfire. But yes, you can use the tactic from above and zerg the walls. With, might I add, less casualties than the Archers because you have armor to support the storm. Nonetheless, you cap the walls, the Archers flee into the city. At this point, nothing matters. They can pillar-hump buildings, sprint down streets, and even hop across roof tops (easily clearing a jump you can no longer make thanks to speed reduction) and shoot you endlessly from a perfectly range. Chase them all you'd like through the city, they can circle kite all around the city. They are inside and actively defending, inhibiting you from capturing the city, but you will never catch them to force them out. Like I said, you could conceivably, with a crap ton of coordination, form a city-wide line and sweep forward, forcing them to kite out of the city. But with far, far less coordination the archers can focus fire on one part of that line and breach it, allowing them to continue circle kiting infinitely.

Basically, other games don't apply here. And yes I understand your idea, the same concept as what applies to Mech Warrior surfaces in many other games, like Tribes: Ascend, ect. I know, I am more often than not that Heavy standing on defense at the base gunning for the fast little guys. The problem is that concept does not translate here. If you'd like, slap on some iron armor, ill take off mine and we can play cat and mouse inside a city of your choice. I don't even need to be familiar with the city. Hit me once, and Ill call myself wrong. Foreshadowing: You will never hit me. Hell, for realism Ill even include a Bow and shoot sticks or something at you periodically, to simulate an archer trying to shoot you. Give me enough arrows and Ill kill you even with 0 in my archery skill. Don't tell me "Well arrows are limited" either. Any self respecting archer has more than enough arrows to sink several armor-clad foes. Even if he didn't he could kite you by walking, you would run out of food first, then he need only wait until he notices you stop taking starvation damage and then one-shot finish you.

[Wolf Druid Ouity 1461]

The hearts you gain from the durability of diamond armor would engulf your screen.

[Aerinyes 402]

There is one variable we're both not considering here.

The dude in Diamond armor firing back. It really only takes 1 or 2 hits to gank the leather clad archer. Granted the guy without the slow debuff has a slight disadvantage.. when we're talking large numbers here, a group of people firing back will be able to do some heavy casualties.

Also what about gold axe/sword wielding beserkers (guys in no or leather armor)? They can arguably keep up with the archers and once they get on them, they're rip them apart.

We're speaking of diamond melee versus leather ranged. But as we know that may not always be the case. I even commented last night in TS that a bandit in diamond armor isn't scary anymore.. but a guy in leather with gold weapons is still a horrible thing.

[Terrin 0]

I think that the less armor u have, the more damage u take

[no longer active 734]

^^^Yes, that's true LOL

And also, they have buffed the speed. Diamond now gives a speed potion effect of 2 instead of 4.

[｡◕‿‿◕｡ Hawk Whitestorm 715]

Would this be RPed as a shield?! Or is that just analogy. Either way, the slowness should be kept.

Edit for Hawk: That's Spartan armor and they were disestablished several hundred years BC. Asulon is in the 1200-1400 era equivalent to us.

I was disproving Acronlad about Spartans ^.^

^^^Yes, that's true LOL

And also, they have buffed the speed. Diamond now gives a speed potion effect of 2 instead of 4.

Wait wait shouldn't diamond be 3?

[Blawharag 277]

There is one variable we're both not considering here.

The dude in Diamond armor firing back. It really only takes 1 or 2 hits to gank the leather clad archer. Granted the guy without the slow debuff has a slight disadvantage.. when we're talking large numbers here, a group of people firing back will be able to do some heavy casualties.

Ok... but basically this is still saying melee is useless, roll range. Range in heavy armor or range in light, irrelevant. Melee still loses.

Also what about gold axe/sword wielding beserkers (guys in no or leather armor)? They can arguably keep up with the archers and once they get on them, they're rip them apart.

We're speaking of diamond melee versus leather ranged. But as we know that may not always be the case. I even commented last night in TS that a bandit in diamond armor isn't scary anymore.. but a guy in leather with gold weapons is still a horrible thing.

Ok... but diamond armor is now useless. Diamond armor should be scary, it should give you pause. With slowness, it doesn't even scare the leather melee guy. The beserker can hit and run all day and never die to the diamond man, similar to an archer. Armor is now useless. Worse, armor is now a detriment. Wearing armor actually hurts you more than it helps you in every scenario. It's rubbish. That is not balance. I should not feel impeded for wearing armor. I should not look at this medieval roleplay and see no one wearing medieval armor because it is somehow universally worse. What you are suggesting is not balance, it is not a solution. The answer is not "Abandon armor, or abandon melee. Only archers can wear heavy armor and still be viable". That is what you are suggesting, heavy armor is only viable for archers. Nice.

[Havenok 2]

-snip-

[gabriel101x1 463]

You should still take 'some' damage of your normal health even in armour. Getting hit with a mace in armour will not kill you but will still hurt.

I think iron should be slow I and diamond should be slow II.

[Amanlu 15]

Also i propose few things. Chainmail shouldn't slow you down, it is light, and let you move your limbs as you wish. Also maybe chainmail should be weak to arrows, and plate/diamond weak to blunt weapons ( axe ) And leather weak to sword. I think that FULL absorb will be OP. 90% damage should be absorbed, but not ALL. Also i wonder why you sink in leather armour...

Buffs/Debuffs:

Full leather set should give damage/range buff for bows for people wearing it.

Chainmail should slightly incrase damage with swords.

Iron Armour just slow down.

Diamond one decrase damage.

[Sultan 3953]

Realistically, Chain Armor used to be harder to maneuver in than Plate Armor.

[gabriel101x1 463]

Realistically, Chain Armor used to be harder to maneuver in than Plate Armor.

Yea chainmail is a bit lighter than plate but has much more of the weight resting on your shoulders.

[Yuln 265]

I dont think this will work, it wouldnt really raise the realism and I dont think it would really balance it.

[gabriel101x1 463]

Anyway to answer the OP. I think it should stay the way it is but have it that:

Iron should be slow I and diamond should be slow II.

Leather and chain would be unaffected. Except that chain would still weigh you down in water.