Purging The Primitives

[KoTo 610]

How would you even cross?There is no bridge, as I recall.Also, can this be pushed back a couple of hours?You're making it impossible for Europeans to come on.

[lugarthecougar 57]

((A bridge could easily be built by Auvergne if need be.))

[Space 2335]

I can trust any resistors will be taken to fuel the Emperors 1000 souls a day life machine thing? Joking.

Basically this is just taking a deserted desert?

I wonder if your suits have heat control...

Also, next time, could you atleast attempt SOME IC RP before posting? Orens reputation of click first and RP later won't get any better.

[Zebanamana 410]

The response to this warclaim was some of the most aggravating reading I have ever done in my life. I am absolutely shocked at how people did not understand a word of what Mirtok said. That being said, I say Sanctum absolutely has to remain on the warclaim as it would not make sense in ROLEPLAY for Mirtok to suddenly remove it from his plans. He does not know the strength of their loyalty, and when he shows up there he will talk and Roleplay with you. You guys are the ones absolutely assured that Mirtok is some tool who just wants loot and no Roleplay which I found insulting on Mirtok's behalf. He said time and time again he is going to the land and essentially planting a flag. No one needs to show up and fight him. If someone shows up to fight him they are getting killed simply enough. No one needs to go to stand up to him. If someone from Sanctum shows up to fight them then they are in the wrong and they will end up getting their city in trouble with the empire.

THIS IS JUST TO REASSURE THE LAND IS UNDER IMPERIAL CONTROL. IF YOU ARE A PART OF OREN AND LIVE IN THIS REGION THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU. IF HOWEVER YOU SHOW UP IN ARMOR AND ARMED TO FIGHT THEM FOR SOME REASON YOU WILL DIE. LITERALLY THEY ARE JUST GOING HERE TO ASSERT CONTROL NOT TO KILL. THIS WAR CLAIM IS A ROLEPLAY FORMALITY TO FORMALLY DECLARE CONTROL NOT TO KILL.

[KoTo 610]

The response to this warclaim was some of the most aggravating reading I have ever done in my life. I am absolutely shocked at how people did not understand a word of what Mirtok said. That being said, I say Sanctum absolutely has to remain on the warclaim as it would not make sense in ROLEPLAY for Mirtok to suddenly remove it from his plans. He does not know the strength of their loyalty, and when he shows up there he will talk and Roleplay with you. You guys are the ones absolutely assured that Mirtok is some tool who just wants loot and no Roleplay which I found insulting on Mirtok's behalf. He said time and time again he is going to the land and essentially planting a flag. No one needs to show up and fight him. If someone shows up to fight him they are getting killed simply enough. No one needs to go to stand up to him. If someone from Sanctum shows up to fight them then they are in the wrong and they will end up getting their city in trouble with the empire.

THIS IS JUST TO REASSURE THE LAND IS UNDER IMPERIAL CONTROL. IF YOU ARE A PART OF OREN AND LIVE IN THIS REGION THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU. IF HOWEVER YOU SHOW UP IN ARMOR AND ARMED TO FIGHT THEM FOR SOME REASON YOU WILL DIE. LITERALLY THEY ARE JUST GOING HERE TO ASSERT CONTROL NOT TO KILL. THIS WAR CLAIM IS A ROLEPLAY FORMALITY TO FORMALLY DECLARE CONTROL NOT TO KILL.

Yeah, it's just that, only 1/3 of the warclaimed area is actually Sanctum's territory.

[Zebanamana 410]

Yeah, it's just that, only 1/3 of the warclaimed area is actually Sanctum's territory.

That's fine. If Sanctum is loyal to Oren then when the Teutons show up, that is it, they become buddy buddy no one dies. If Sanctum just says "No screw off we don't like the Empire." Then there will be an actual war. The Warhawkes as far as I know live in the Seventisian Region which isn't even mentioned, and if they live in the land claimed by Auvurgne and it is across the straight, literally all they need to say is "We are part of the Duchy of Auvergne." This is such a simple concept that I am baffled as to why people are confused. It's like everyone is arguing just for the sake of arguing and calling someone pvp hungry.

[Mirtok 2853]

That's fine. If Sanctum is loyal to Oren then when the Teutons show up, that is it, they become buddy buddy no one dies. If Sanctum just says "No screw off we don't like the Empire." Then there will be an actual war. The Warhawkes as far as I know live in the Seventisian Region which isn't even mentioned, and if they live in the land claimed by Auvurgne and it is across the straight, literally all they need to say is "We are part of the Duchy of Auvergne." This is such a simple concept that I am baffled as to why people are confused. It's like everyone is arguing just for the sake of arguing and calling someone pvp hungry.

((Hey alright, thank the Goddess someone understood what I was trying to convey.))

[El Ricktador 1394]

(( The problem here was that if the goal was simply to make sure that the land was under control of the Empire, why could it not be done without a warclaim? The majority of people look at warclaims as licenses to PVP. Not events to promote roleplay. That was the issue here.))

[Cloakedsphere 1471]

( Not to mention the fact that you say you are having a campaign to move up north to attack people in levanthus for false/outrageous reasons. Warhawkes wont harm you guys/threaten you as long as you dont harm us/threaten us. Simple simple.

Warhawkes Used to live in the Duchy of Auvergne. We do not anymore from threats such as oren people claiming they will attack us or others doing the same. We moved at a tactical location out of harms way and basically saved oren/Auvergne from being war claimed in the process. It could have easily been a war claim on oren from another nation for what warhawkes have done to others.

We never called anyone PVP hungry actually. We state that we think you guys are getting greedy. Taking land where you can where you know you wont get a fight because either oren people already live there/or everyone is left. :/ Thats what some of the most recent Oren claims have been like. Not saying all have been like that. Just a couple.

We dont give out our names of our allies as that could be shown as a weakness. Warhawkes dont show weakness but only strength. So we will not be telling random strangers who we have never heard of in RP that we are friends with so and so. Just seems a little odd? Dont you think?

When you say they are just going there to assert control? Then why did Mirtok say that he plans, basically an invasion on all of Levanthus? Really. There seems to be no logical RP reasons to attack them. The only last surviving levanthus city is Varivik. The other 2 city states are inactive. Varivik, being ran by koto, Is a fun place to RP and actually from my knowledge they believe in no religions just like the warhawkes as we have no been introduced to such.

I just fail to see a lot of RP reasoning. Sure you can claim your character is being too ignorant to believe lies. Sure you can say that he will lie about this. But why do you have to lie about the RP reasoning? Why not just visit the place 1 time and base REAL factual RP reasoning off that? I really just want to see a better RP reason then made up lies/saying that your character doesnt care if it was a lie or not. Because if that is true. Then why did you say you plan to conquest levanthus if your character doesnt care if it was a lie or not? Doesnt that make your character seem a little hungry for more land?

I am just confused on this entire war claim all around. Personally. I think this war claim should be locked until a war claim team member passes verdict. Because as of right now no one has said this is accepted.

I would also like to state that I would feel much better having someone outside of oren (Gaius) Review this war claim. IT would make me feel more comfortable with his judgments as coming from oren/an oren attack can come off as a biased POV. )

[Zebanamana 410]

Oren does not like Levanthus. We believe they are primitives. They live in tents, or have costumes that are odd to us. We view them as inferior or primitive. We do not need to confirm our suspicions of our superiority. We know them. We play as characters in a world, and as Oren has been getting fleshed out so too have our characters when it comes to fitting into this world. Our characters are ignorant, and aggressive. They are dutiful to their superiors and rude to those they believe beneath them. They cannot travel nearly as much as people in this server tend to, and they do not travel far from the beaten path to test stereotypes. Mirtok is or is going to be the Grand Marshall of Oren. He is the brawn of Oren, he is not the brains. If he is told to invade, he will invade, if he is told to be diplomatic he will, but for the most part he is not making these decisions. We have people judging the borders, we have spies judging the people, we have officials talking to each other, we have lords discussing matters of expansion and economics. These men eventually will lead to High Authority figures in Oren deciding that the land just north of Seventis is to be taken. Mirtok is ignorant to reasoning, he is not ignorant to politics and diplomacy, thus is why he will not show up in the land just killing people. He WILL roleplay seeing as he is among the best roleplayers on this server.

As for logical reasoning. We do not like Levanthus. They are a mockery of humanity in the eyes of Oren. The look primitive to us and we hate how the other races might judge humanity based of a skewed view of Levanthus. REMEMBER THIS IS OUR CHARACTERS NOT US. I personally find the cultures of Levanthus to be quite nice, and they are not primitive, but I am not my character. We are not all understanding lovey dovey fellows he will look on any culture and find the pros. Now any reasoning to take Levanthus is a good reasoning. Lies, especially in politics, have a snowball effect. Godfrey might want Levanthus and have all humans under one banner, or maybe he just wants to beat them up and make them know who their superiors are. Mirtok doesn't need to know the reasonings he just needs to know where to go, and stop calling Mirtok hungry for land. HE HAS HANSETI, HE ROLEPLAYS WELL, AND HE DOES NOT KEEP THE LAND HE IS MERELY DOING HIS ROLEPLAY JOB TO MAKE ROLEPLAY TENSION AND MAKE ROLEPLAY CONFLICT WHILE ROLEPLAYING THE ROLE IN WHICH HE IS THE HEAD OF MILITARY OF THE ROLEPLAY NATION OF OREN.

As for us not attacking Orcs for being primitive. Orcs are orcs, humans are humans. We don't like orcs in particular. We have some respect for their culture, for their usefulness, and for their warriors, but other than that we hate them. We think they are primitives and stupid and ugly abominations, but we would never severe an alliance with then because of that. Now Levanthus is a mostly human collective that is independent of the crown of Oren that lives in a lifestyle (As we see it) similar to that of Orcs (Which we find incredible distasteful) therefore we would like to rectify it or mock it which would be less detrimental to us then if we did it to Orcs.

[El Ricktador 1394]

I see. Well that just makes quite a bit of sense now. It's all been brought into perspective. A tribe that consists of elves and a dwarf is being attacked for being a disgrace to the human race. Makes perfect sense. Since Elves = Humans and Dwarves = Humans. If anything, we're an insult to the Elven race.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

The response to this warclaim was some of the most aggravating reading I have ever done in my life. I am absolutely shocked at how people did not understand a word of what Mirtok said. That being said, I say Sanctum absolutely has to remain on the warclaim as it would not make sense in ROLEPLAY for Mirtok to suddenly remove it from his plans. He does not know the strength of their loyalty, and when he shows up there he will talk and Roleplay with you. You guys are the ones absolutely assured that Mirtok is some tool who just wants loot and no Roleplay which I found insulting on Mirtok's behalf. He said time and time again he is going to the land and essentially planting a flag. No one needs to show up and fight him. If someone shows up to fight him they are getting killed simply enough. No one needs to go to stand up to him. If someone from Sanctum shows up to fight them then they are in the wrong and they will end up getting their city in trouble with the empire.

THIS IS JUST TO REASSURE THE LAND IS UNDER IMPERIAL CONTROL. IF YOU ARE A PART OF OREN AND LIVE IN THIS REGION THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU. IF HOWEVER YOU SHOW UP IN ARMOR AND ARMED TO FIGHT THEM FOR SOME REASON YOU WILL DIE. LITERALLY THEY ARE JUST GOING HERE TO ASSERT CONTROL NOT TO KILL. THIS WAR CLAIM IS A ROLEPLAY FORMALITY TO FORMALLY DECLARE CONTROL NOT TO KILL.

I've seen enough wars to know that, 90% of the time, people in the warclaimed area are going to eithet hide, or be pvped. ALL it's going to take to start PvP is ONE confused person, or troll. People who go to a warclaim expect PvP, and with a mindset like that, will turn something that could hardly be considered provocation if exaggerated into a reason to run in clicking.

It makes perfect sense for Sanctum to be removed from the plans because I RP'ed sending him a letter stating the land was under imperial control. If you want to sure we're loyal as you pass through, great! I just shouldn't have to explain how illogical it is to do your little uniform inspection day while everyone in your army just wants to go find somebody to click.

[Mirtok 2853]

((Not every war claim has to be driven on revenge or retaliation for a violent offense. I will either retake or reassure that desert and the accompanying settlement in the name of the Emperor. Once I have done that, a firm foothold and forward operating base will be established there. From that FOB a full scale investigation and evaluation will be enacted on each of the next possible location for a war claim.

Frankly, I don't give single **** about Warhawks; I have yet to hear their name in RP or a reason why I must devote RP resources to contact them. If everything checks out when I arrive and the neighboring settlements are compliant with the Emperor's will, the campaign will end there. But if I encounter any hostility, defiance, rejection or otherwise, I will either war claim my way to said settlement or immediately war claim the region on the spot.

I do not have to be considerate of other RP cultures or situations in RP. I do not have to be sensitive to what the people want in RP. I will show up and either loyal peoples of Oren will greet me or tribalistic primitives will launch rocks out of a catapult or charge at me yelling praises to a false god. We have a whole Empire to maintain, and this is how we make sure our farthest borders are secured and any unsavory influences is dealt with. Other religions or no religions at all is not tolerated.

Ignorance to the Emperor's will is not tolerated. Pleading that you have not been introduced to any religion is not an excuse and it is expected by every loyal subject of the Empire to hold the same faith or values as the Emperor. This war claim is just the start to a large and lengthy campaign, one that will ensure the Emperor's lands are 100% under his control and the deemed evils are dealt with; Or it will just be the warning to settlements teetering on the edge of heresy (not just in the religeos effect but too the values of the Emperor) or to settlements who have succumb to deemed evils that the Oren Empire will act and we will not rest until we have assured our safety from the temptations of evil.

I get the word from Washington and I deploy the troops. Not only is it my duty as Grand Marshall of Oren to make sure any military venture of the Empire is both successful and profitable for the boys back home, but it is my sworn oath and very core as Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order to ensure that the will of the Emperor reaches all that is willed to and that it is uninterrupted by any heretical influence or force in any form.

And when you are done reading this post, scroll up and read Zebs again. You call our reasons bullshit and demand us to come and see how things really are up there. To avoid being hypocritical I would ask you to come down South for a while and you will see that yurt toting tribals are the lowest on our tolerance totem pole.))

Edit: As for the concern about random clicking, I do not plan to march on the town, I plan to march through it and on to the desert. No deaths will occur if the people who take residence in that settlement restrain themselves from putting on full sets of armor and have weapons sticking out. A war claim does not grant me the right to kill anyone who happens to be on the region boundaries, I am still bound to a level of RP that makes it acceptable for me to initiate PvP.

[Zebanamana 410]

I see. Well that just makes quite a bit of sense now. It's all been brought into perspective. A tribe that consists of elves and a dwarf is being attacked for being a disgrace to the human race. Makes perfect sense. Since Elves = Humans and Dwarves = Humans. If anything, we're an insult to the Elven race.

I don't know any of this in character. All I know in character is that Levanthus is a tribal collective of mostly humans. So my ignorant characters believes all people from Levanthus are primarily humans and primitive therefore a disgrace therefore worthy of being mocked. I assume you are from Sanctum. We aren't attacking Sanctum. Sanctum is in the warclaimed area as a formality as part of the region we are resecuring. We are not sieging Sanctum, nor do we have plans to siege Sanctum unless Sanctum decides the securing of the borders by Imperial command is not your cup of tea. In that case Sanctum will be attacked.

This warclaim is honestly just a formality telling everyone what is happening. The people involved are not looking for PVP. Warclaims have been done in rp manners before and this is an rp situation in which an rp group is using military strength to subdue a region and reaffirm Orenic control over it. Now military strength is not just violence it is also shock and awe. THEY ARE MARCHING INTO THE REGION (SHOCK AND AWE) WITH A FORMAL DECLARATION OF THE REGION THEY WISH TO RESECURE. ANYONE LOYAL TO OREN IS PERFECTLY SAFE, ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS NOT ACT LIKE THEY ARE AGGRESSIVE TOWARD THE MILITARY FORCE OF OREN. YOU LIVE ON A BORDER WITH A FOREIGN NATION AND THE BORDER IS INSECURE THEREFORE IT WOULD NOT BE ALIEN TO PRESUME THAT THE MEN WHO LIVE ON THE BORDER MAY NOT HOLD THEIR LOYALTY TO THE CROWN AS STRONGLY AS OTHERS, SO SHOWING ARMS TO THESE MEN WOULD BE COMPLETELY IDIOTIC AND DETRIMENTAL TO LOGICAL RP AS A LOYAL MEMBER OF OREN.

Also the Warhawkes are not being targeted at all. I have no idea why they keep popping up. Never heard of them.

I've seen enough wars to know that, 90% of the time, people in the warclaimed area are going to eithet hide, or be pvped. ALL it's going to take to start PvP is ONE confused person, or troll. People who go to a warclaim expect PvP, and with a mindset like that, will turn something that could hardly be considered provocation if exaggerated into a reason to run in clicking.

It makes perfect sense for Sanctum to be removed from the plans because I RP'ed sending him a letter stating the land was under imperial control. If you want to sure we're loyal as you pass through, great! I just shouldn't have to explain how illogical it is to do your little uniform inspection day while everyone in your army just wants to go find somebody to click.

No one has the mindset of pvping during this. People need to stop saying people are only in it to kill with MC mechanics as if it is some insult. I feel like you guys are inadvertently calling people who use pvp or the threat of pvp as meat heads and jocks (as if we don't play on the nerdiest game medium possible) Sanctum is in the plans because it is on the border that needs securing. They march in, you don't attack them, and you clarify you are with Oren and loyal to Oren and NOTHING HAPPENS.

Please please guys, I implore you to stop thinking Mirtok is just going to run in and slaughter you guys. The warclaim is formality, at least for the beginning of a war. This is not a battle really. This is placing men where they need to be for a possible war. This is men walking into land that is Oren's on paper but is unsure in practice and are reaffirming this loyalty. This is men marching through asking "Are you loyal to Oren." "Yes we are sir." "Very well we will be on our way." then going off to build their frontier fort.

STOP ACTING LIKE VICTIMS OF BULLYING, STOP TRYING TO ACCUSE PEOPLE OF BEING THE EQUIVALENT OF MEATHEADS. Let roleplay be roleplay, stop looking to be the victims, and stop assuming the absolute worst of people and the absolute worst possible outcome, and stop thinking people need to act like Gary Stus' in character when they are doing something ignorant and aggressive for seemingly no reason.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

I'm not throwing insults at anybody. Warclaims entail PvP. Everybody attending a warclaim subconsciously expects PvP, and when you expect conflict, it is human nature to be more likely to see something as conflict.

I've never met most of the TO, I haven't even met Mirtok. I'm not saying that I think they are bad at RP, I'm saying that having Sanctum in the WCed area is an unnecessary risk.

I'm not insulting anybody by saying that a mistake is possible. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, everybody does. I'm saying that it is unnecessary to take the risk of somebody making a mistake, when that risk has no rewards whatsoever. I'm not acting like I'm a victim or you a bully, I'm just trying to make this WC go as smoothly as possible.

I could raise complaints and call some things out, but I won't. I'm not questioning the WC as a whole, just trying to negotiate a specific part of it.