Professions Plugin - Feedback. [RE READ FIRST POST]

[Acornlad 206]

I like no skills system, it prevents grinding. If a player wants fun roleplay make it their job to find a shop that works a certain profession.

[Ned Lud 1260]

Vaquxine's Skill System was horrible, lost us many players, killed our economy and put a damper on our role-play. This proposed system is even more restrictive. I vote absolutely not. This system and Vaquxine's system are two sides of the same coin.

I feel that players should have open access to all professions and crafting recipes and use their judgment accordingly. What our characters excel at is for us, the players, to decide. It should not be dictated and restricted by code. Some players will abuse the privilege, yes. But these choking restrictions just punish the whole lot of us over the actions of the few.

As far as the economy goes, just give us auto-shops and stop taking away our auto-shops and changing the plugin every week on a whim. If you allow auto-shops that are restricted to a certain theme, to be determined by nation/city/town leaders, players naturally fall into their professions. At any time, players can access the goods and services they need and get back to role-playing. Auto-shops bring players and players bring role-play and minas and it gives those who role-play professions a hub to work out of. When minas gets pumped into the hands of players, they use that minas to generate more role-play. When the minas stagnates, the role-play stagnates. Professions and skill systems are irrelevant. Players with minas would generally rather spend minas, quick and painless, for what they need than grind those non-profession items out out-of-character.

When you restrict the skill system so badly, that's when you witness that suddenly everyone and their mother is a Blacksmith, with an alternate account that is a Fletcher and a Cook. Players will work their way around your system and utterly abuse it in order to get back to role-playing. It's just an unnecessary burden and the legitimate role-players and the smaller communities feel the brunt of it.

[Casamir 42]

As far as the economy goes, just give us auto-shops and stop taking away our auto-shops and changing the plugin every week on a whim. If you allow auto-shops that are restricted to a certain theme, to be determined by nation/city/town leaders, players naturally fall into their professions. At any time, players can access the goods and services they need and get back to role-playing. Auto-shops bring players and players bring role-play and minas and it gives those who role-play professions a hub to work out of. When minas gets pumped into the hands of players, they use that minas to generate more role-play. When the minas stagnates, the role-play stagnates. Professions and skill systems are irrelevant. Players with minas would generally rather spend minas, quick and painless, for what they need than grind those non-profession items out out-of-character.

When you restrict the skill system so badly, that's when you witness that suddenly everyone and their mother is a Blacksmith, with an alternate account that is a Fletcher and a Cook. Players will work their way around your system and utterly abuse it in order to get back to role-playing. It's just an unnecessary burden and the legitimate role-players and the smaller communities feel the brunt of it.

First off, no restrictions = no economy, you're silly for believing any sort of economy would be viable, and you don't seem to realize how many people would just make everything themselves.

Second, Just what the hell are people roleplaying that they need to make everything? In my proposed system in my blog, everyone can make basic items, and building materials. WHY DOES A VILLAGER NEED TO MAKE ARMOR, BOWS AND ARROWS, AND WEAPONS?

Check this out, If I role play a warrior, that means I'll take combat skills right? sure, and maybe a bit of smithing, and mining on the side, cause i don't want to pay a Blacksmith, and I need food to heal in combat, so I'll take cooking. I'll need lumber for everything so I'll just take that too.. And now I don't need NO BODY LOLOLOL.

This is the problem with being self sufficient.

TOO MANY PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT BEING ABLE TO MAKE EVERYTHING IS A BAD THING. TOO MANY PEOPLE TRUST THE PLAYER BASE TO BE FAIR AND HONEST.

And i still cannot figure out why, that it seems EVERYONE roleplays as someone that can craft everything, people keep saying restrictions take away from their RP... THEN STOP RPING AS A POWERGAMING MAKE IT ALL GOD BEING. A villager DOES NOT Need to make everything, a villager is A FRICKIN COMMON PEASANT WHO MOST LIKELY HAS NO EDUCATION, CAUSE WHY ELSE WOULD YOU BE A PEASANT AND NOT *CHOSEN PROFESSION HERE*

Honestly that excuse angers me "let me make everything cause uh, having to find someone to make it for me break my characters Role Play" So what you roleplay as a stubborn ass, who would starve to death in protest of not knowing how to cook, than search for others that can fulfill your character's basic needs?

And don't use the excuse "well it prevents me from doing things my character would already know how" Well then sir, thats borderline Powergaming, cause clearly your character age 35, has been around long enough to master 4 different things? wrong, it takes about eleven years of study and practice to Master something.

Take a look at my Blog, What I propose should hopefully satisfy alot of people, One it lets you make basic items, with out the skills, so yeah your character can still cook, can still survive with out people, you just cannot make claims to be a cuisine divine.

[Aldous 8]

Looking through the other comments I do agree that it would be restrictive and the second choice is good with buffs but the punishment for making something outside your profession is a bit harsh

[goldeagle409 6]

I'm going to Re-express my beliefs on this Proposition.

I get yelled at by some of the people i see supporting this when i make a proposition for a new plugin because it "restricts their RP". If we went with option 1 we would loose many people and good people. The people that are good Role-Players will get screwed over because, in contradict to Casamir, My character has been a hunter for 20 years of his life and has had to learn how to track, how to use a Bow, how to fletch arrows, how to cook, and how to make leather padded armor. He is recently learning how to use a sword and make better armor but hasn't come close to mastering. I make, Maybe, 1 set of iron Armor a week and maybe 2 iron swords a week, since Iron swords are a bit easier to make than a set of armor. Even then i kill the sword on blocks before i use it in RP. with this plugin i couldn't even do that with this professions plugin. He may not be educated by your standards but he can do a heck of a lot without Power-gaming. This system would completely kill my Characters personality. I get that some people Power-Game but really your punishing the people that know what their doing for what the idiots that don't know what their doing do.

[Ned Lud 1260]

Here's a loose idea I had. Not sure if it's codeable and there's some wonkiness to it.

Rather than restricting and denying the ability to craft items and perform actions, what if professions were managed by some sort of cool-down system? Every player would be permitted open access to all crafts and actions, but those who chose to specialize in certain professions would be able to create more of those items and perform more of those actions at a faster pace. This would allow for a compromise of both camps on the issue. The cool-down variations would either be text-based or based on hunger consumption or both.

For example, a villager could craft a sword with a cooldown of, let's say, 24 hours. An experienced blacksmith, on the other hand, could craft a sword with a cooldown of one in-game day/night cycle. Rough math, of course. This could be applied to various classes, items, and actions in a tiered, cool-down system.

The economy would benefit and distinguish professionals, as a person that can craft one sword a day is more likely to run a sword shop than a person that can only craft one every 24 hours. Tradesmen would run shops that reflected their trades and yet every character would still have the freedom to deviate their abilities as they see fit. Some would simply have to wait longer than others and mass production would be out of the picture. This would also keep players from running home with a sackful of ingots and grinding out a dozen sets of armor in less than a minute. Players would have to plan, prepare and conserve their crafts more, which would add to the value, as time would become an additional, intangible resource.

It would all simply be based on time and how long it takes to craft or act.

Just an alternative idea as we work towards a constructive compromise.

[CloakandDagger 134]

Well I would like it, but quite frankly your post is confusing and I don't understand the different classes... I do however think we need some sort of professions plugin to stop players from being Master of all trades.

[Korvic 930]

I would rather see the skills plugin not be introduced. If we had 1000 players on at one time, sure. The problem is that you can't find each profession by walking down the street. Meaning that people will go searching forever to just find /one/ shop, let alone the shop keeper at the same time. This plugin details adding even /more/ skill sets that you have to choose from, making it even worse for finding someone with the profession you need specifically.

It's one thing to make RP shops and different shopkeepers more needed, and another to make people have to search the earth far and wide to find one person that's online at the same time as them. Just my thoughts.

[Major Dom 1297]

I really don't like this idea :/ Who really has a specific job in RP that they stick to? I think almost everyone does what they want and its fun that way. Another thing, many people have multiple characters, and that would mean multiple professions, which would just be such a pain to handle. This kind of reminds me of that one Aesop's fable about the fox with the grapes who tries to get more, but ends up losing everything. Just leave the system be.

[Casamir 42]

I'm going to Re-express my beliefs on this Proposition.

I get yelled at by some of the people i see supporting this when i make a proposition for a new plugin because it "restricts their RP". If we went with option 1 we would loose many people and good people. The people that are good Role-Players will get screwed over because, in contradict to Casamir, My character has been a hunter for 20 years of his life and has had to learn how to track, how to use a Bow, how to fletch arrows, how to cook, and how to make leather padded armor. He is recently learning how to use a sword and make better armor but hasn't come close to mastering. I make, Maybe, 1 set of iron Armor a week and maybe 2 iron swords a week, since Iron swords are a bit easier to make than a set of armor. Even then i kill the sword on blocks before i use it in RP. with this plugin i couldn't even do that with this professions plugin. He may not be educated by your standards but he can do a heck of a lot without Power-gaming. This system would completely kill my Characters personality. I get that some people Power-Game but really your punishing the people that know what their doing for what the idiots that don't know what their doing do.

With the old skill system, and the 300 point max skill limit, you could easily have the skills for all of those (you said you didn't want to be a master in swords and such) Not to mention RP wise, you'd be leveling up your swords skill, using it on monsters, and people ect.

To be fair though, I feel maybe make it so sword skill goes up per strike on certain blocks, like wood (So you could gain skill from attacking a practice dummy)

Here's a loose idea I had. Not sure if it's codeable and there's some wonkiness to it.

For example, a villager could craft a sword with a cooldown of, let's say, 24 hours. An experienced blacksmith, on the other hand, could craft a sword with a cooldown of one in-game day/night cycle. Rough math, of course. This could be applied to various classes, items, and actions in a tiered, cool-down system.

But why Oh why does the villager, need to make a sword? Is he not a standard villager? or is he a guard? See the problem with freedom, is why is a farmer using armor and swords, or a warrior also a gourmet chef. So lets say it's all free open crafting, all of a sudden the town doesn't need guards, cause it has an iron / diamond clad militia of years worth of training equivalent farmer warriors.

Why can't people be content with what they role in the first place? They start as some badass ranger then decide, oh I need to start learning how do to all of this. My blacksmith / Miner, he had to learn a skill, only it was a purely RP skill cause there is no skill called "being a merchant" So he learned how to pitch, and sell wares. When I grew bored of him, I killed him off and rolled a new fellow.

Maybe it's an age thing, I grew up and played DnD, in DnD tabletop you can cross class yes, but you don't cross class into everything, that would be crazy. As a fighter, you might cross class into rogue for extra skill points so you stand a chance with a swim check in that full plate when the GM decides to pull a character's weakness move at you (which my Gm's did alot) Me and my friends played the same characters in an ongoing campaign for all of high school (with the exception of people who died) everyone remained the same characters.

Even comparatively with real Life, you may learn alot, but you don't become Master or even journeymen of most of it. As I said before, Read my blog, I post an idea for a skills plugin, it lets you do all the basic stuff (which Rply I can see people doing) but if you want the good perks, and the good stuff, you have to commit to being that profession (Not many people IRL go to say culinary school for the sole purpose of cooking better meals at home )

Here is the link to my blog post: I've gotten one comment in the almost 1 week + that it's been out, take a read. http://www.lordofthecraft.net/forum/index.php?/blog/283/entry-362-skills-crafting-and-more-my-rant/

[Ned Lud 1260]

-snip-

Every now and then, there might be a villager that needs to hammer a makeshift sword. I'm not saying everyone ought to make everything all the time, min/max and cross class into every profession. I'm saying that we should allow a free and open system that allows players to decide for themselves what they are capable of on that rare occasion that a farmer wants to craft a bow or a warrior wants to brew himself some homemade ale. By restricting players to a single class and two subclasses, with crafts and actions all neatly filed into categories, written in stone, that's just ridiculously limiting. It dumbs down the role-play and forces us all into RPG stereotypes.

I'm older than you, so it's not an age thing in this case. I'm just saying that I want to be able to decide for myself what's acceptable for my characters to make and do. Not some coder. I'm a level-headed and reasonable player that's mature enough to discern what's acceptable for the role-play of myself and my peers and what's not.

I'm advocating that players learn to limit themselves. Not depend on a plugin system that forces their hand because they are too lazy or apathetic to police their own and encourage one another to do the right thing.

[CloakandDagger 134]

Institute a system like this, have npcs available to take the place as specialists for service; for players who are only online during low population hours.

[Garblesnow 0]

I don't think there would be a lot of diversity in the jobs. A lot of people would choose smith, or healer, or cook, and other more "popular" things. There would be a constant lack of other jobs and people would need to go to the other side of the world just to find a Weaver or a glass blower.

Not. Much. Fun.

[Casamir 42]

Every now and then, there might be a villager that needs to hammer a makeshift sword. I'm not saying everyone ought to make everything all the time, min/max and cross class into every profession. I'm saying that we should allow a free and open system that allows players to decide for themselves what they are capable of on that rare occasion that a farmer wants to craft a bow or a warrior wants to brew himself some homemade ale. By restricting players to a single class and two subclasses, with crafts and actions all neatly filed into categories, written in stone, that's just ridiculously limiting. It dumbs down the role-play and forces us all into RPG stereotypes.

I'm older than you, so it's not an age thing in this case. I'm just saying that I want to be able to decide for myself what's acceptable for my characters to make and do. Not some coder. I'm a level-headed and reasonable player that's mature enough to discern what's acceptable for the role-play of myself and my peers and what's not.

I'm advocating that players learn to limit themselves. Not depend on a plugin system that forces their hand because they are too lazy or apathetic to police their own and encourage one another to do the right thing.

Understandable, but then why is a wood sword not good enough? or why can they not purchase a stone or better sword? (From the shop in town assuming shops are up)

I know you want to trust in the community, I as well wish we could, but time and time again it has been made obvious that we cannot. Like I say in my post, Limit stuff, but within reason, heavy restrictions, but less so in RP, everyone can still craft basic items, can still gather base goods (needed for house making and building) Don't do what Vaq did and prevent people from making wooden planks, but let lumberjacks yield more lumber. For things like smithing and mining, it needs to be restricted.

[Hwaldar 132]

It's all very easy for you to discuss things like skills and professions plugins. But it ain't the case for me.

Everytime, I have to start from a scratch, because of someone's ingenious idea either to screw the server up, break something entirely and make all progress lost, or just end up randomly killed by bugs, effectively loosing all progress made aswell.

Now you might want to say "Why don't you just use <ThisAndThat> or ask <HimOrHer>". Problem is, I got no one to help me out. Searching for people is also pointless because of your idiotic large maps. I can't find anyone in them! Seriously, out of 200 people, I ever managed to find 10 while still on Asulon map. Ain't that the sign of having a bit too big of a map, eh?

And if the skill plugin is actually in, and works just like, if not similar to, Vaq's plugin, well **** my life then. I ain't getting myself going anywhere, since I can't even pick up a damn flower without getting killed by a script saying that you gotta use scissors for that.

Your skill/profession ideas are just killing off any interest to continue playing, since there won't be anything I could do, besides starving all the time or getting killed randomly. I won't be surprised if there's more people in such a shitty situation as mine.

P.S. For the love of god, please start making backups of the map which can be actually used in the case of emergency. I really wasn't as happy as some of the people when I saw my months of work gone to shitter.