Smaw

Shamanism Explained In a dimension as vast and unpredictable as the Spirit Realm, it can be difficult at times to understand how the smaller aspects of Shamanism work, what the limitations are, and how to apply what you can work with. It is my intention in this post to detail everything I currently understand about Shamanism, my interpretation of it and what I have come to clarify from my previous experience as the Shaman Lore Master; of which I believe there has been no replacement. If there is one, I apologise for not seeking you out in advance. I asked only on one occasion. So, before we get into the nitty-gritty details of how Shamanism as a Magic works, and what the limitations contained within are, let's explore how the Spirit realm came to be. The Birth of the Spirit Realm The Daemon, Apohet created the Spirit Realm after observing the realm of Mortals, and in his jealousy, attempted to create a dimension of his own which would come to rival the Realms of the Descendants. This became the space that would soon house the Spirits; the entities he created to inhabit this vast dimension. Yet in his blind arrogance and passion, he wanted each of the Spirits to come to control and represent something in the Mortal Realm, so that his creations would always have a hold and a sway over the Realm of Mortals. He started with the most prominent aspects of existence, and created two Spirits that were aligned to the concepts of Time and Space. These two Spirits would materialise in an explosive burst of energy and potential, and in an instant foresaw all of time and creation. Just as soon as they were birthed into existence they experienced time eternal, and came to understand and explore the unlimited expanse of the Universe. They foresaw all events and all possibilities, and instantly became more powerful than their creator. They became known as Sandru, the Spirit of Time, who often takes the form of an ice blue snake, and Omnizan, the Spirit of Space, who most often appears as a crimson serpent. The pair are invariably intertwined in this state, and are said to be in and out of reality as they continue to experience endless time. For this reason, it is impossible to contact them. Apohet continued with his voracious appetite for glory, and created the Elemental Spirits, who would collectively reign over the second most prevalent things in all of creation; matter. In their Elemental Realms they are unimaginably powerful, and dwarf their lesser cousins, who exist in a realm outside of their own. These Spirits are known as the Immortal Spirits, and represent many of the more specific things of the world, and they are the last of the creations of Apohet. Lastly, there are Spirits that reside in Star'Gush Stroh, which is the after-life that worshipers of the Spirits may enter. These "Spirits" are Mortal Souls, who were blessed with the ability to enter this afterlife due to Apohet's admiration of Krug; which caused his last influence in his dimension to be a pocket of the Spirit Realm in which Mortal Souls could reside for eternity. Based on this, we can come to understand there there are various levels or dimensions to the Spirit Realm. - For a detailed list of all of the current Spirits, refer to: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/153791-the-spirits-grand-list/#comment-1453308 I imagine it would look something like this: Time & Space ---------------------------- Elemental ------------------- Immortal ---------- Ancestor ---- The Birth of Shamanism In isolation and rage, Krug called out for an answer to the Curse set upon him and his people by Iblees. For it was one of a deep Blood Lust, and had caused unimaginable harm to his people. For decades they had lashed out in barbaric fury, slaughtering one another in the streets for the momentary release it would offer them. Yet as Krug called out, all was silent. However, unbeknownst to him, his incomparable power had brought his message to the Spirit Realm, and he then received a response. The Elemental Spirit of Air came forth, and offered to work with Krug in order to achieve a goal. You see, the deep desire for recognition and advancement that fueled Apohet's ambitions had been instilled in his children, and in the interaction with Krug they saw a means of attaining more power, and more influence. Thus, from this encounter and subsequent co-operation, Shamanism was born. But how does Shamanism work, you might ask? Good question. How Does a Shaman Connect? Over time, the act of Shamanism began to branch into different specialisations. This occurred because no Orcs were as powerful as Krug, and could not reach the Spirit Realm in the same manner as him. For this reason, a method of connecting to the different Spirit Realms was imparted into the children of Krug, so that they could reach out of the Spirits in order to receive wisdom, advice, or even something more tangible. This is achieved through meditation of some form, and currently there are only two ways in which a Shaman may interact with the Spirit Realm. 1) Transferal of Consciousness One method is to transfer consciousness into the Spirit Realm, which is done through deep meditation, focusing on the realm and even the Spirit the Shaman wishes to visit. The Shaman's mana is used to transfer his consciousness into the Dimension, and his body is left behind in the Mortal Realm, where it is susceptible to damage due to being paralysed. If a Shaman were to be killed within the Spirit Realm, his physical body would also die, due to the connection of his soul/consciousness being torn. Typically, a Shaman would only visit the Spirit Realm in order to seek advice, to create a pact with an Elemental Spirit, or to visit Star'Gush Stroh, where he or she may speak with the deceased. 2) Connection through Ceremony In terms of tangible work, a Shaman will choose to instead connect with the Realm of the Spirits, as opposed to visiting it on more of a literal level. All acts upon the Mortal Realm are achieved through this second method. This is done by calling out for their attention, so that they may work through the Shaman's mana in order to influence the Mortal Realm. The Shaman must adopt and embrace the energies that the Spirit or the Realm represents. For instance, if a Shaman wanted to connect to Enrohk, the Spirit of Bloodlust, they might start by sacrificing a Goat. Then they would begin chanting in an aggressive and furious tone, finishing by dancing in a manner that also mimics a fit of rage. A Spirit will rarely manifest in the Mortal Realm of their own will, for if they were to be killed, their energy would shatter and they would ultimately die. Typically, it is only the Immortal Spirits who summon their energies into the realm of the Descendants, and do this by transporting one of their Lesser Servants into the Realm to act on their behalf. The Sub-Types of Shamanism Farseer Class: Healing/Enhancement Realms: Immortal & Ancestral A Farseer devoted his energy to heaing or enhancing someone by working with the Spirits of the Immortal of Ancestral Realm. To do this, he must connect with the Spirits through Ceremony, and once connected, may impart their influence into the chosen person. Currently, Farseers are unable to heal or enhance themselves. Latauman Class: Healing/Enhancement Realms: Immortal & Ancestral Latauman work in much the same way as Farseers, and devote their energies to healing or enchancement. Expect, in the case of the Latauman, he may only bring positive influence upon himself, to a greater degree than the Farseer. Latauman are unable to heal or enhance others. Spirit Smith Class: Enhancement Realms: Immortal and Elemental A Spirit Smith must connect to Gentharuz initially, in order to crate an item known as a Mortal Stone. This is used to contain a Minor Spirit, who uses it's energies to influence the world. Once this initial process has been achieved, anyone in possession of the item may call upon the Spirit inside the stone to utilise the energy it represents. Elementalist Class: Damaging Realms: Elemental An Elementalist must first take his consciousness into the Elemental Realm in order to make a pact with an Elemental Spirit. Once this pact has been made, the Shaman may call upon that Spirit to assist them in influencing the mortal world. Elementalists can only work with existing elements, which means they vary from Evocation in this regard. Apart from this, the mechanism of influencing said elements works in very much the same way. However, it takes considerably less effort to harness existing material. Witch Doctor Class: Damaging Realms: Elemental/Immortal Witch Doctors connect with the Spirit Realm through chanting, and attempt to imbue the Spirits energy into a concoction known as a Hex. This liquid may be used to invoke a feeling or illness upon the victim, which is known as a curse. There are not often physical influences (though they do exist), but instead mental ones. For instance, a Hex of Fire will not explode into flame, but will instead give the sensation of being on fire. With great effort, a Witch Doctor may cause this same process without the brew, but it takes a considerable amount of time, and will often be stopped by the victim before it can be caused. Witch Doctors may Curse both forms of life: Plants and Animals. Dark Shamanism Class: Damaging Realms: All Dark Shamans devour Spirits in order to influence the world around them, by forcefully utilise their energies. Once they have control over something, it begins to contort and twist into a corrupted form, as the act is being done against the will of the Spirit. For more information on Dark Shamans, refer to: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/150801-lore-trial-2m-from-290916-ishurkal-dark-shamans/?page=1 How do Spirits Influence the World/How Does it Work? In order to have dominion over the Mortal Realm, Apohet had to bestow small parts of his energy into the world. He did this by creating Dormant Spirits, entities that are directly tied to what they are imbued within and indeed, the Realm they represent. When an Earth Elementalist calls to the Elemental he has a pact with, that Spirit will harness the mana of the Shaman to awaken the Dormant Spirits within the earth, thus allowing manipulation to occur. The Spirit awakening the energy has no real influence over the decisions of the Dormant Spirits, and so the Shaman must focus on controlling it with his mana in order to keep the Spirit in line, and is how he may direct where the earth moves to. This concept applies to all influence in the world, including physical and emotional, and it is the act of awakening these Dormant Spirits that gives rise to the subsequent control. I'll be adding more to this once I see what may be missing. I intend to start an F.A.Q at the end of this post so that I can answer questions I might not have thought of, and so I can implement them afterwards. So, fire away.

I told him someone would pick up on that...

Note: With the introduction of Magic Circles, and the ability for a couple of the same magic users to attempt feats of considerable power, I would like to propose some variants that the Shamanic community can use, and post them here as a means of reference, and first and foremost to see if these would be considered acceptable under the limitations of the current edition of Shamanism. To avoid bloating the process at first, and to allow the Shamans to adapt to this advanced system, I will mention only one Ritual for now, and will expand on them based on how this one in particular is received. The Dread Tree Old Blah: Tiimor'Tau Spirits Required: Enrohk, Glutros and Leyd Shamans performing the Dread Tree ritual; a piece created by Catarrh (Malog'Yar) Perhaps the greatest influence in all of Orcish society is the latent curse present in all bar none, and it is this Bloodlust that has created a cycle of destruction and rebirth within their long history. It is the cause of much suffering for them as a people, and it is this pain and tribulation that they understand above all else. As such, this deep, disturbed state is something they can just as easily instill within others through curses. Before periods of War, or in order to cast judgement upon those that have wronged them, Shamans may call upon the Spirits to assist them in spreading a deep corruption into the land. This Ritual is widely referred to as the Tiimor'Tau, or Dread Tree, and requires a minimum of three Shamans to complete the ritual, all calling on a specific Spirit at the same time. These Spirits are: Enrohk - The Spirit of Bloodlust and War Glutros - The Spirit of Greed and Consumption Leyd - The Spirit of Power and Dominance The reasoning behind the Tiimor'Tau is for a deep curse to be set within the core of a tree, where it will flow through the roots and stir beneath the land. This curse is predominantly one of bloodlust, and is used to influence the flora and fauna of the corrupted area, creating torrents of bloodshed and land-scarring within these heightened regions. Each Shaman will have to call upon one of the aforementioned Spirits in order to achieve success in this ritual, as all aspects that they represent as a whole are essential to ensuring that the curse can be maintained effectively. As the Shamans call upon the Spirits, they must ask for their assistance in setting the curse, requesting a union between the three to ensure a greater goal. Generally, the Shamans will be required to dance in a way that mimics the Spirit they are calling upon. For instance, when one is asking for Enrohk, one will dance in an enraged and aggressive manner, mimicking the domain of which the Spirit rules over. As well as this, they must specify why they want to use the Spirit in question, and for what purpose. In this ritual, the three Spirits are called upon order of influence. To begin with, Enrohk is called to, for it is his endless rage that will fuel the fires of the curse. "Enrohk, ghashkrum-izub bugd! Grishthroqum-lab sul agh gothûrz! Hiist-za lata-tau! Gruiuk!" "Enrohk, answer my call! Your Bloodlust is famous and powerful! Send it into these roots! Kill!" Then, the hunger of Glutros must be called upon in order to further influence the insatiable blood thirst: "Glutros, throqu-hai! Ushk-za mokum, agh glothrok blot! Gruiuk! "Glutros, great devourer! Feed this hatred, and eat the world! Kill!" Finally, the Spirit of Leyd must be called upon in order to set the curse in motion, allowing it to dominate the core of the tree and spread through force. "Leyd, gothûrz rok-kulûk hlu zaa-ang. Mazauk-throqum mazag agh izandesh! Gruiuk!" "Leyd, your power seizes all things with an iron grip. Make this hunger unrelenting and unstoppable! Kill!" When this has been finished, each Shaman must continue to channel with the Spirits as they approach the tree. From here, they will sink their palms into a bowl containing the blood of three beasts. With cupped hands, they must dig their palms into the earth, creating a wet mixture which is then placed upon the bark, setting the curse deep into the core. How it Works: The curse runs deep, coursing through the roots of the trees. If sustained, it can even spread into surrounding trees, further corrupting the land. It begins by cursing the local flora and fauna, making them vastly more aggressive and greedy, disturbing the balances of nature as plants absorb the nutrients of the ground in extremes, and beats kill not out of necessity, but for sport. As this process continues, the land dries into a nutrient devoid husk, and the last of the surviving beasts die to severe injury. When the land becomes devoid of life, it has achieved a state of such considerable power that the three Spirits will materialise their avatars, who will guard the land and attempt to further expand the territory.

Hmm, well it's not exactly an original concept. I'm sure more than two people could have considered it at the same time. Either way, I was aware that Hellfiazz had a similar interest when we spoke on it, but wasn't aware he was interested in pursuing it at this time. If you'd like to assist in any way you're more than welcome to message me regarding it. As per the intro there's much to work on and flesh out. Ideally it would start with a small event and then be open to the ordinary RP'er. It's not exactly my place to expand on it, as I said above. It's not my lore, it's something written by another, who doesn't wish to publicise it just yet. I can put you in contact with him if you wish. This post isn't intended to be a means for that to be accepted, it was a tangible aspect of the progressive story that can be altered according to how the Druid lore is received.

It's not my place to extrapolate but all will be revealed in due course.

Intro: Just something I thought I'd throw together to come with my LT App. If it feels rushed that's because it is (sorry) and I'll work on the cracks when I have some free time. For the most part I've left out a large part of what comprised of the history, and indeed some more specific elements of the magic contained within. This is to allow it to develop organically if given the chance to be used within RP, and because I would like the ET to utilise this group and potentially allow them to become available to the playerbase with the release of the latter of the two magics detailed in this post, which will be submitted in due course. (But not by me) The Uruk of Daguur'Numh "Nagzig throtar, Mazagesh..." Daguur'Numh, a land as vast and unforgiving as the scorching Desert that contains its terrible blight. This ashen landscape offers no solace within, and is littered with dangerous pools of acid, producing a smog that permeates the air and lungs of the inhabitants of this foul world. The canyon within the centre of the land serves as a scar within a scar, where the tortured inhabitants wander in regret and sorrow as husks of their former selves. These Uruk pre-date those of the Vailorian Orcs, and have suffered greatly in isolation on Axios for many decades. This inhospitable land has allowed them to remain undetected for such lengths of time, protected by the poisonous clouds that loom over them, a warning to the outside world. Their culture is almost alien to the Orcs of the modern day, comprising of horrific depictions and political deception, all stemming from the influence of the Great Betrayer, Vaasek. History "We have been betrayed, brother..." The Uruk of Daguur'Numh descend from the Tribe of Keztag, an Empire under the son of Krug, Balzug who went on to discover and populate many lands outside of Morghuun, the Orcish homeland. In particular, these Uruk revered Ghorza, the Spirit of Travel, for many years upon their arrival into Axios. They soon settled into the brimming Jungle of the Southern Isle. However, as time and seclusion further influenced their society, they began to neglect the idea of travel, and became reclusive within the harsh confides of the Jungle. As these Uruk withdrew, they lost contact with the Spirits, and quickly spiraled into despair. They became disorganised and hostile to one another, and debased their society into one of clan conflict. This degradation would only continue under a slower, more deceptive guise with the arrival of Membalek, a loyal servant of the Daemon, Vaasek. Under a fiendish visage, he presented himself as a Spirit, and manipulated the Uruk. They began to dabble in the dark and mysterious crafts of Dark Shamanism, an art that was not conjured to assist them, but rather to diminish and weaken them further; all the while convincing them of progress. It was the teachings and keen deception of Membalek that caused these people to wither, and in their blind faith they saw not despair in their weakened state, but evolution. At first they began to grow thinner, weaker, and even grew horns in place of the tusks they had once worn proudly as a symbol of strength. In this place, their ability to utilise magic grew exponentially, and their intelligence began to rise to unprecedented levels. But soon their skin darkened with a thick black, just as the sky above, allowing little light to permeate their skin. Sickness followed, and the prolonged use of this Dark Art would also render their land near-inhospitable, broken and beaten by the forced labour of Spirits. And when Vaasek had finished with them, they were left to stew in their own filth. Physical Description The Uruk of Daguur'Numh often reach heights of 8 to 9 feet, and are seldom hunched in their day-to-day posture. However, the muscle on their bodies hangs meekly under ashen skin, offering little use outside of the most basic of motor functions. They are not particularly proficient in physical combat, and must use their form of Shamanism with caution when confronted with danger. All of these Uruk have blackened skin from exposure to their environment, which has been misshapen and corrupted by the Dark Art wrought upon the land by Vaasek. Additionally, they do not often grow tusks, and any that are present are not of considerable size. This in turn allows them to speak common with ease, and they do not have the same issue that is presented to other Uruk. Instead, horns protrude from their heads, perhaps an affront to the opposite nature of their lives, compared to their stalwart cousins. Typically, these Uruk adorn themselves in dark colours such as deep reds and purples, meshed with the usual shade of black they are so enamored by. The materials they wear are usually accompanied by metal plates that they wear over certain points of their body, such as the ankles, knees and wrists. On one end it serves as protection, and on another it is the element it is made from that dictates their place in society. They are particularly fond of jewels, and encrust these into their armaments which are specifically designed to work with spell-casting in mind. Their armour is most often comprised of blackened steel and chain, and will contain the most valuable gems they can afford. But perhaps the most valuable asset to an Uruk of Daguur'Numh is his sharp intelligence. Mentality These Uruk are far more cruel and unforgiving than their brethren, and this is mostly due to the latent corruption that influenced their people. They do not often succumb to the boon of honour, having both their blessing and curse manipulated and distorted by their Ancient Art. These tortured people want nothing more than to escape the harsh reality they are exposed to, and desperately seek a means to prevent the corruption of their homeland. It is this powerful determination to find solace that drives these Uruk to explore the darkest recesses of their mind in order to manipulate and overpower their foes, and unresolved murder is common place across the land. In their usual activities they often try to compete with one another through their intelligence, and are very judging of one another both mentally and physically. Their appearance and plated clothing serve as a stark reminder of their place within society, and to lack in this field could spell doom for the one so useless as to be poor. Their arrogance is the basis of their society, from which all things stem and are shaped. Yet they understand the importance of union in their trying times, and work together under the banner that they use to refer to themselves: Gazh-Nûlum; the Betrayed. Society and Hierarchy These Uruk pride their intelligence and magic ability above all else, and so naturally the one most proficient in both of these fields becomes the leader of the nation. He is often old, having amassed many years of experience and magical affinity in order to overcome his competitors. He is also typically the most conniving and cruel of his people, having used his inner darkness to climb the ranks of the political game; for in the land of Daguur'Numh, there is little room for positivity. The leader rules with an iron first, and forces his subjects into laborious obedience, making them work tirelessly and often endangering their lives in the name of magical progression. In an attempt to reverse the process of their Dark Shamanism, they have instead stepped further into the decaying process of this Dark Art, and many who do not succumb to insanity are at least influenced by it. Below the leader sits his council, a people of equal cruelty, who find mirth most often in the suffering of others. It is this Doom Council that oversees the work of those in the bottom ranks of society, and with a scornful glare, tire them to the farthest reaches of Dark Shamanism in an attempt to understand it at its core. However, such exploration is known well as a point of no return, and those that consume too many Spirits tear their physical bodies asunder from the Mortal realm, turning into dark apparitions that wander the land and haunt the living, casting a looming evil that strikes back at those who drove them to the brink of madness. For this reason the Council is not often comprised of the same members for long, and the graves of the council chamber are on the verge of overflow. Recent Events Recently, a man stumbled upon the land, utilising a mysterious and slow form of Druidism to enter the canyon. When approached, he warded himself from the Dark Arts of the Uruk, and revealed to them a method through which they might reverse their corruption. Reluctantly, the Gazh-Nûlum accepted his help, and are seeking to cleanse their destroyed home.

"**** off." thought the current highest leader of the Orcs of Azaghol.

I agree, which is something I tried to reflect in the cycle of progression and destruction throughout the submission, something that also extends into our RP history.

Thanks for adding some humour to this thread. I appreciate it immensely. I'd take you seriously if you even witnessed half of my Rexdom, but you were banned for what, the 53rd time?

Don't worry about it. These things happen, and it's an unfortunate fact of life. At this stage the Orcs are doomed to eternal stagnation, because they can't do anything without Older Orcs complaining or otherwise asserting aggressively that nothing new or unique can be added, often deterring any new people. They think they can do everything better, but there's evidence to counter that in almost every circumstance. I had to wade through the bullshit every time I made a decision when I was Rex, and I pity the next leader for the same reason. You need only see what Pok's influence did to the Uzg after I left, and then what the combined efforts of Malg and Deano did to finish it off. Were these great ideas all round that helped progress the Uzg? No. I'm not wrong about the current idea of ancient lore, which makes more sense. Unfortunately there's some ignorance (through no fault of their own) due to the past LT not performing properly and telling people of these changes. As it stands the old series of events doesn't mesh with current lore either, so it's anyone's guess. I'm hoping they will make an alternative history with the currently accepted notion of Ancient Aegis and the surrounding isles that can contradict my own and (hopefully) fit better. Most of the issues seem to be baseless, like asking why Krug would challenge a foreign voice, and if the Brothers would truly hate eachother. In my opinion this isn't a Disney Story, and we don't need them walking off into the distance to live happily ever after. I'd prefer a more gritty story. But, the point of this thread was to get something out there, and to stir some creativity. I leave the rest up to the community.

This is a great trope though right? Lmao. I understand where you're coming from, I'm just concerned that neither of you understand where I'm coming from. And forgive me, I do become rattled when people begin to presume things about me, and the last year of Orcish RP. It came to a very good point by late Vailor, what with the Orgon disease and everything else that was set in motion. Unfortunately it has died down substantially since I took a step back. There are many reasons for me to be disgruntled about the state of the Orcs and the complete lack of assistance from anyone or anything outside of Hedgehug during that period. Nevertheless, that's a tangent and not completely related. Either way, I'm more than happy to put it to vote with contesting lore. I enjoyed writing it at the very least.

I answered every point, but these deluges are becoming tiresome. I'm well aware, and this can still take place. Perhaps you're not seeing the bigger picture. And he does have a misunderstanding, which is the fault of the old LT that changed Ancient Lore and didn't mention it. What are you supposed to do? What am I doing? It's very easy to get involved and try to change things, instead of looking at an issue and thinking: "Oh well, guess there's nothing we can do." They was so much more, but perhaps you weren't involved enough to see it. Mog has an understanding of old lore, based on old LT making mistakes. Again, it's not logical lore if the basis of the Descendant origins is different. It doesn't fit either. You fail to see that it's not my fault either. Nor is any lore being forgotten. You're... really not understanding the point here. Again, nothing to do with me. I wrote this on what the past LT agreed was current lore. Because they don't want to put in effort? Which is why it was left completely to me for an entire year. Thanks for that. You know this is based on the submission and nothing else? In the submission he was abandoned after the curse. You know? Where it says that he went into Bloodrage and they all ran off? How about understanding where I'm coming from? Alternatively, I'm open to you and Mog writing your own version of events. We can pit them against one another in a voting process, and whoever wins and work on the subsequent effects of that. Got the commitment? Yeah, Hellfiazz didn't explain it very well, but it can be easily changed to another word. Yet Spirits are intrinsically tied into everything, and gain power through that prevalence? Would they limit themselves purely to Orcs? Who chooses to be less powerful? Not really. As I said, it would still tie in and exist nicely. smh No, you were discussing relatability. What's relatable when all the clans are dead/nothing like their former cultures? Most of your arguments are based on ignorance. Are you in the Orc chats? Are you involved at all? How can you determine something with no insider insight? Ad hominem really helps legitimise your comments. Look at the above quote. I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or not. Oops! Yeah, Horen and the other Brothers abandoned Krug when he was first cursed and began to kill everyone, as stated in my previous comment, and as stated in the proposal. Proposal. Proposal. Proposal.. Proposal... Krug is weak for challenging a voice that enters his head? Lmao Weakness has nothing to do with anger and betrayal, as show in the proposal. Proposal. Pro- Let's not do that again. It's all very logical and consistent. Ask me sometime. I probably won't respond to the next deluge. It's largely based on a seeming mixture of ignorance and anger, which isn't going to help in any way. But I appreciate your insults, and I hope I can criticise your future proposal of Orcish History in a calmer manner.

There's 0 conflict either way. You say Krug vanished, I say nothing about Krug after returning to the land. It's equally as vague. Whatever the case may be, it wasn't my decision. I'm working on my understanding of lore based on the insight of the current LT, who had made these changes at some point, without me.

Yeah, it seems to be established as fact. Before I was added to the Lore Team, mind you. It actually works better though, if we're being honest. It explains a lot about the lands we've been discovering, and there's a map based on the lands that surround the Abyss, which was formerly Aegis. From my understanding, it's kind of like this: - Brothers from each Land - Meet in Aegis to finish off Iblees - Return to their lands -Return to Aegis where community defeats Iblees again -Rest of server lore

Woah dude, that's a lot to respond to. How many of them are still around? How am I even taking away from the vast majority of that lore and RP that can be added alongside this. It will have to be written eventually, and as it stands no one else is around to. There's also a drive to get this out now, since the Elven one is nearing completion, and a Dwarven one is in the works. It's on the LT project list. No one else even seems to care about assisting the Orcs, so am I the villain here? There's about 19 Orcs at best, and I'd rather work to help improve their future RP than think about upsetting some old, irrelevant Orcs that haven't been a part of the community for years. I know you read the preface, I know you're aware that this isn't entirely the finished concept, and I know you realise that this is a lore submission thread and not accepted as canon at this stage. Please don't compare me to SupremacyPoOps. I'm not upset, I would just appreciate criticism backed with a general understanding of this purpose and old lore. I'm not aversed to feedback or changes, and have posted this in every Orc related Skype chat for insight. The accepted Shamanism origins have the account of his death in there, which was accepted a long time ago through a previous LM, Hellfiazz. I even cited him in the post for creating that part of the lore in the preface. To be honest, if a current Orc comes with an issue and wants to change it, I'm happy. However, Mogroka has continuously complained from the background for a while now without actually getting involved. Why do you believe that at the very least, Krug wouldn't have anger toward them for abandoning him? I'm not saying the other three hated each other as well. Just the Orcish one, the one riddled with Bloodlust who can't tell friend from foe when angered. As for Apohet, I don't like him at all. However, it was previously accepted lore I can't change, I have to merely work with it. That part was also written by Hellfiazz, as cited in the preface. No, the Spirit realm is connected to the passage of all Souls. At first it caused a stir, like a fork in a river that causes a split in the traffic. Eventually Apohet rectified it, so that only those interested in going there could venture into the Spirit Realm. All others pass by. Also, that was written and previously accepted by Hellfiazz, as cited in the preface. Also, it's not race-specific. You mean, semantics? It's right there, you'd see that he did it in challenge, which would be the Orcish way. I mean, come on. The vast majority of existing clans are dead, or on the way out. Gorkil has had, until recently a child as Wargoth. I could easily change the older clans to those of past RP, but would it make much of a difference? This allows for exploration of something new, outside of, as you said, existing, established RP that should be left alone. Semantics. Have you honestly read this proposal? I'm starting to doubt it. At the very least, not critically enough. If you're going to provide feedback, at least have something reasonable. Krug wasn't tricked, he just came to accept the company of the Iblees' disguised form. He didn't accept the offer in the end, which is cited in the original lore. You can read it and quote me if you like. If I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up. As for his death, I'm open to changing that if need be. However, it would logically follow after having had his city destroyed, which is in previously established lore. Why would he have bothered to destroy the city? The reason was altogether unspecified, but can easily tie into their neglect of him during his Bloodlust, arguably the only ones that could have contained him from killing his own people. Based on my earlier explanation, you can see where it ties in logically and consistently. The former quotation happens after the latter, so you've kind of skewed that for this argument. Nah, but I despise Mathic too and argued for its removal.

Aegis was not the homeland of the Descendants, it was the convergent point where the Brothers finally defeated Iblees with the help of the Aenguls, who banished him to the Void. This is why Axios is known as the homeland of the Elves, since it is where Malin was from, and all of his children. I'm not sure you know your lore, bud. Nope. Read the Elven history Submission that was Approved for more insight. Nope. You're still not understanding the point, it seems. If the clans came from Gorkil, Rax and so on, chances are they lived together on a continent, which could have been the one the Nation of Krugmar in the proposal is said to have ventured to: Aegis. This is no way meddles with existing lore and RP outside of your misunderstanding of Ancient lore. The Clan War that took place in RP? The same Dom's who were played as characters? I've seen quite a few Dom's around.

And where did these Ancestors live? On one of the existing maps, or an entirely fictional one? There's no reason they couldn't have come after, you're just being closed minded. I'm not trampling on anything, all of the history is still there. If you look at this section, you'll find that it's a submission thread. You're also neglecting the entire purpose of this and the new map. If you'd read the preface, you could have messaged me about rectifying it, instead of whinging about previous RP that has no relevancy to something that is intended to predate it, for the most part. If you think my LM tag has anything to do with this, you've not taken much notice of my actions for the past year within the Orcish community. I'm happy to work with current Orcs that will be RP'ing many of these factors. If you intend to actually play an Orc outside of showing up every now and again to complain, we can establish something.

Read the preface please. This is set before any RP took place, like all the other history posts of the past and those that will come, for each nation. This is set before any RP took place, like all the other history posts of the past and those that will come, for each nation. This is set before any RP took place, like all the other history posts of the past and those that will come, for each nation. As I'm sure you're aware, Krug had a great number of children. You're not seeing the bigger picture, nor the applications this has toward the next map, instead of events that occurred on older maps that have no relevance for future RP progression. Ah, an ancient love story between Horen and Krug, who dissapeared into a sandstorm for their homo-erotic relations. This ending makes even less sense to be honest.