Ores And Mines In 4.0

[Jistuma 1996]

This is something I considered a problem in most maps except Aegis, incredibly... I believe that right now the problem of mines and ores has been getting worse each map. Let me explain.


Aegis: You had to buy mining permits to mine under level 60. With full mining profession you could mine down to 50, and with VIP you could mine down to 40. This meant that without mining skill you couldn't really build stuff all that well, but as well you couldn't just mine diamonds or gold, you could mine some iron and coal. This worked... rather well until dupping and the GM that spawn in like 5000 diamonds and was selling it very very cheap (I really am not sure if all the numbers are right).

Asulon: In the start it was about the same, you couldn't mine below 40, but in this map there was something different, land plots. These land plots had the problem of allowing the protection of going down into bedrock, meaning a plot of land like this would be acting like a mine. So villages, towns and the like all had their private mines. Land plots could be gathered by having VIP, by buying with minas, or by being awarded for great building (like my town was, thought I still bought a land plot with minas before). In Asulon there was also the profession plugin, which made it so that you could only mine important ores if you were a miner.

Anthos: Depending on the part of Anthos, there were various types of mines. It started with natural ores spawned all throughout the map, with no protections if you were added into the region. This brought the problem that those without region perms couldn't mine, and those with region perms would be pretty much rich. And then the other problem, builders placed many ores in their 'mines' which resulted in every ore in the map be removed, including coal. For months it became like this, and there never was any real lack of iron, just so you see just how much iron was mined. Things like dupping affected it a bit as well thought. After players complained that they couldn't mine anything for many months, the GM's created 2 mines where the iron would reapear. This was pretty bad because at first, the iron only appeared every hour, which means it was always the same players mining it. It was passed for 10 mins, with 15% drop rate, and it was fixed a bit, but it still had the problems, one of which was that players wanted vanilla mines. And so those mines were created. The mines were not that big, and each mine had a type of material that could be mined, problem was, it soon was mined and empty. Then the last change happened. This I believe was the worst part of mines in LOTC. A giant bigger than the map mine was created. I don't know how big it really was, but it was at least 2000x2000 blocks big, being as tall as Y120. Also the quantities of ores placed was near vanilla as well, with some things, like emeralds, elevated so much, someone brought stacks of emerald blocks from one trip to the mine. Really, I went mining there like twice, and right now I have 7 stacks of iron. I went TWICE and have enough iron for the rest of the map and probably wouldn't need anymore iron for an year. I once also while building for the ET found a locked chest which needed to be removed. I looked inside it... 17 stacks of iron blocks, along with 7 stacks of Gold blocks, and a few other stacks of other precious materials (diamonds, emeralds, etc). This wasn't a chest of a nation or even group. This was a chest of one player. Anthos went from the extreme of no ores, to the extreme of over abundance of ores.

 

 

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So now my sugestion to 4.0, so that nothing like this can happen again. Some players don't find those things a problem, I do, considering it's not the economy that dies, it's that the players can easily have everything they need without any kind of work, and everyone and their mother can have it.
 

• No one can mine under y:50 in the places with ores - This happened in Aegis and Anthos, and it worked rather well. It keeps the players from being able to obtain every type of ore out there with ease. This would be in the wilds mostly, because I assume in the mainland there are no ores, and in the mainland the building of things should be easier.
• Players that don't have much experience in the profession of mining, have a harder time getting ores - A harder time, not impossibility. That was one of the problems of Asulon, without like a level 50 in mining, you couldn't mine iron right, I think it was still just 75% chance of getting iron at that high level. So now that there are only 4 skills in a profession (or 5 I forgot), it would be far more easier to control. Novice, adept, Expert and Master, if not that, I don't really care. Novice would have a hard time getting Ores, something like 25-50% chance of getting them. Adept 75-100% so that just minor skill could allow already most of the ores being able to be collected. Expert and Master would be to gather the specialty ores (I assume there are some) and gather more ores for each block mined.
• Remove 75% of the ores in the wilds - This is to stop players from just going to the wilds and returning with stacks and stacks and stacks of minerals in just a few hours. Everyone (I assume) has played vanilla MC, you know that gathering iron is incredibly easy and after an hour you already have enough iron for everything you could ever need to survive (armor, tools and weapon). There is too much ore in vanilla MC.
• Give the nations a small specialty mine - SMALL, not 2000 blocks wide, small is something like 100x100, that's already the size of a town, lot bigger than a village. Specialty mines would be mines with little from most stuff (like 10 times less than vanilla) but a few types more (like 2x or 3x, no need for more than that). This would mean that some materials in each nation would be cheaper, but everything would exist. Traders and the like could move around the map and buy cheap in one place, and sell a bit more expensive in another. These things could be Gold (it doesn't really have much use), Emeralds, Lapiz, Sand, Netherrack, Quartz, Clay, Gravel, and I guess the new types of blocks in 1.8 when it appears.
• Nation mines get reblocked every Month or 2 month period - If someone goes into one of the mines one day and mines everything, it shouldn't be recreated so soon. This would keep from overflowing the world with ores. Making a 100x100x100 place reapear with ores in a mining world shouldn't be too hard for a GM to do, actually should be quite easy. The reblocking should be done without telling the nation leaders or anyone for that matter, they should just appear one day with ores again (this is just personal opinion thought, so that it's not always the same people knowing the mine is full. Word travels fast anyway).
• Nations should control the entrance to their mines automatically - I forgot how pay stations work, but there should be able to find a way to make anyone that aprouches the mine to be able to buy an entrance inside it automatically. Since regions will probably be done with a new plugin as well, maybe an adition to /Buymine could be done or something, like it existed in Aegis.

 

These are my ideas for the mine, and I can do a lot more work with it still, like tables saying what ores each nation would have more of and all that, but that would be too much work for this post alone, and I want to see what others think of my ideas first.

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

First

[Hiebe 2493]

Seems like a good basic idea thats been asked for many times. Lets see what happens :P

[monkeypoacher 8055]

yes.

 

Resource scarcity causes trading which drives the economy.

[Mankaar 166]

yes.

 

Resource scarcity causes trading which drives the economy.

Except every time we have tried to do this it's gone to s**t, restricting the economy is a good idea in theory but it just never works. I'm conflicted.. on one hand the restriction of ores in the past has just pissed people off and on the other it would be nice to see iron that isn't selling for 0.75 minas. We are also getting a skills plugin which (from what I've seen) levels armor crafted based on skill so wouldn't that sort of promote the economy instead of ore removal? This idea is sort of mashing systems together and I just don't know what to think, so far pretty much all of the mining systems haven't worked well. I don't think mashing them together will change anything but again I'm not sure. In my opinion the mining world was a good system just make ores a little rarer as I don't see the need for restricting areas to mine out (Eula might also interfere with that).

[Hiebe 2493]

Thing is, if you do the resources restriction right it works. You just have lazy or unwilling people to do it. Like example, we went months in anthos waiting fir mines and then ever finally did it.

[Dtrik 330]

Well for the restocking of ores, gms might tell their inner circles about a time when the restocking is going to happen so that they make their friends happy. Can the coders make a randomizer and have that like bound to say "mining" regions so that no human interaction is there. Maybe it refills one time after two weeks then there is nothing until the randomizer goes bleep bloop and spills out another refill of ores a month-ish later. 

[Helbolt 129]

I believe I read a post a while back about the strategy they are using for 4.0.  During this post one of the staff commented that there will always be an abundance of resources due to the fact that people will just put the time in needed to harvest extra.  They suggested the way to control the issue was at the production phase, not the gathering phase.  They pointed out this also helps keep new player acclimated to minecraft and allows them to mine their little treasures.  Then they pointed out this is exactly what they are trying to do with crafting and professions plugins in 4.0. 

 

If the above was all true, then this plan would attempt to do something that has been tried and failed in the past (according to their post).  I believe it was the discourse between Danny and Telanir that covered their strategy for addressing this in much more detail:  

 

Hopefully I summed it up correctly, but here you go just in case:

 

http://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/110561-40-danny-addressing-concerns/

[Raomir 1855]

This will work so damn well, plezzzzzzzz implement

[Cappy 1599]

I like it.

[mmat 7460]

I haven't read this at all because tl;dr but resource scarcity is terrible, for reasons I cannot be bothered to elaborate on. Make it so all armour and ore is common until diamond, which should be very scarce. One person should not have a full set unless they've been collecting/saving for a while.

 

We don't need any over complicated mining systems or we'll end up with early anthos mines 2.0 which were literally worse than hitler.

[Jistuma 1996]

I haven't read this at all because tl;dr but resource scarcity is terrible, for reasons I cannot be bothered to elaborate on. Make it so all armour and ore is common until diamond, which should be very scarce. One person should not have a full set unless they've been collecting/saving for a while.

 

We don't need any over complicated mining systems or we'll end up with early anthos mines 2.0 which were literally worse than hitler.

Overabundance is just as bad as scarcity.

And read what I wrote, I know that mining system in Anthos was horrible, I wrote a huge paragraph about it. Anyway.

tl;dr:

Mining profession gives more ores.

No mining under y:40 in the wilds

Wilds has 75% less ores

All nations (and other places I guess) have small mines with more types of materials and less of others.

Nation mines have automated ticket buy in (pay to get in)

Since small mines in mining world, GM's can easily do WE for it every month to restock

[Heff 2460]

Please! Us traders/merchants need some actual thing to do!

[River 555]

I feel like this thread post and mine are pretty similar, some of the only differences being you still want resources to be in the wilds to allow players to mine as they please (given there are reduced ores in the wilds) where as I say remove them completely so players only reason for venturing in the wilds isn't just to mine a fortune, but compensate it with smaller general mines (with reduced resources as well) where there's at least a central RP hub for people who don't mine in Nation Mines, that way they're not scattered across the map mining, but are mining in one little world instead together, at least making RP possible (instead of secluding themselves entirely).

 

But yeah, either plan for the public works, but I'd prefer the mining worlds simply because it can centralize RP more so if there are only a few locations where you can mine, while also making sure players adhere to the server rules regarding mining. This way new players who come, can mine their fortune IN ONE OF THE GENERAL MINES, while also learning the server rules for mining (and just monitoring others so they follow them too), while creating a small RP hub for miners.

 

Overall, I feel like we kind of hit the nail on what mining should look like in 4.0, because what I would hate to see is open world mining for all with no specific mining areas with no source of control by and kind of foreman or city/nation.

[TheBareSheet 194]

Moved to the Great Library. It shall be sorted into appropriate category shortly.