Your View: The Dwindling Inferno

[Zarsies 6795]

 

 

I'll make the first step in my department and I'll edit in a link to this post once it's up. In the meantime, I wish you all luck, and my love. Let's work through this.

 

 

 

As promised, here we are. Communication is a key factor to what is going to make LotC work, and hearing player opinions is number one on the list of how to interact with said players. That being, I'll start us off with the write-up Kalen gave to Urasept and Alan a few days ago:

 

Hello! I’ve added you both to this chat to propose something that might not be great but after a long duration of discussion Zarsies and I have both come to the conclusion that the undead is a failed project that we have reached at the end of our wits to try to fix. However! This is not a request to permakill Iblees or what not - we did not come without an alternative!

 

In the theme of Benboboy’s Aengudaemonic descension we would like to focus purely on Iblees as a whole and instead remove the undead. The issue arises solely from the status of the current player base - the undead struggle to find roleplay amongst the players and are as a whole shunned both OOCly and ICly. The players manning the role have been bashed against, hated, and despised because of it. Not just this but the undead were an original concept that was pushed in order to solve a problem of decentralized roleplay in Aegis by removing inactive settlements and crushing those that were way out of the way. Athera does not have this issue - players are centralized in cities that are designed for them to be there. If we were to take a city that playerbase would have no other location to migrate to - the undead simply don’t fit this map.

 

-snippy snip-snip the confidential on the alternative, will elaborate on it later.-

 

This is our idea for what we should do instead of the undead to create an overarching enjoyable story line. It is an idea! but if done right it would be more preferable than using the undead. This may be sudden, but we hope that each of you will consider this in part and know we would not truly resort to bringing this up if we did not believe absolutely that there is no other course of action to take.

 

 

 

 

That was the outcome of Kalen and I talking (Freema and Kalen spoke, I typed ;w; ) for a long while about how the Undead have been messed up. We've all handled it wrongly and the mistakes that were made have made the group, and altogether the entire concept of a server-sponsored antagonist, not feasible for the LotC community. We are not fit for a sole group to be given special treatment over others, given privileges over others, or power at all in the server's subgroups and inner communities. Magical representation for the Undead, or any group, is wrong if the rest of the players cannot do the same for themselves. The plugin itself brought the wrong sort of attention that the Undead intended, including the wrong people, and the Managers haven't handled what all has happened in an optimal manner (it's not easy!). LotC has shown more than once that setting a spotlight onto a single group to give expected villainous content with the backing of the server as an 'official' antagonist, giving it the power and tools to do the job (and too misuse), only caused chaos and wasn't efficiently fulfilling its purpose if giving RP.

 

Due to all of this, I offer to you all a chance to hear you out. This decision was going to be made in the confines of the Undead Managers, Urasept, Alan, and possibly the other admins (at the time the only other being Cappy) to decide the antagonist fate, for the Undead and for the server. Ark's thread (linked up top) really opened my eyes to the lack of /talk/ between the teams and staff with both each other and the non-staff playerbase. It's only right we take the initiative and start the talk here. So, that being that, there are three options at hand for the fate of the antagonist and where it will lead:

 

 

 

a. Remove the Undead entirely

 

This would entail a complete purge of the antagonist and the separation of Iblees from the Descendant races. He would still be around, that guy is sort of stubborn and not one to up and leave when his goals are nigh, but the Undead and everything relating to them would be eradicated. There is already a large-impact, medium-scale event prepared for this, which also encases situation b. and it is not at all botched, out of the blue, or unplanned. The story is solid in why this would occur should the choice be pushed for. The antagonist would be absolved, and the alternative to two-sided conflict amongst the server from the Divines will melt down into many, and Benboboy's FABULOUS idea with the Aengudaemonic Descension events will continue but take a greater scale of influence while there is not lone deity out for hypothetical blood. 

 

d. Downgrade the Undead

 

This is the choice I favor, as well as an assortment of the Undead already aware of the situation. This downgrade would include the sound, lovely story as above, but with an alternative ending to the alternative ending. The Undead would technically be removed in this scenario, but the influence of Iblees and what becomes of the Undead is different. The Undead lose all special treatment. The plugin is removed, they do not get creative to build, no special regions, and special treatment; the Undead devolve into a cult. They wouldn't be Undead, neither body nor mind, but the taint of Iblees would still be present and would lead to the unlocking of a far less powerful iteration of First Generation Necromancy to mortals. (To those unaware, which is my fault for not updated the wiki page at all, but First Generation Necromancy is all Undead magic. The three branches, covering from lightning, fireballs, mob spawning, and miasma as well with their numerous other spells are fall under this subtype of Aengudaemonic magic. The three branches are respectively three smaller subtypes.) Think of the Undead as a court of Wraiths, and then they are dropped down to the level of magicless / Necromancers. Same with Itharel and Clerics, should you know their configuration. In the same sense that the Clerics praise Tahariae as their patron for their magic, or Xan Paladins for theirs, the Undead would become a far less powerful, even, and equal group to any other group of RPers. Do also note that in this scenario, only the most heavily tainted Undead would possibly retain a connection to Iblees to start the rediscovery of his magic, and new connections would have to be made in order to learn, meaning the new cult wouldn't have exactly the same members as the current Undead. 

 

c. Do not change the Undead

 

Picking this have the same effect as if this post was not made, and the administration decided the Undead should stay. Not much would come of it. That being, if you are content and wish to see the antagonist stay afloat, then reason for your opinion and give us your thoughts.

 

 

 

From here, I open this thread to formal debate for you all to express your opinions, non-Undead, Undead, staff, and non-staff alike. We're all players, so let's talk about what should happen with our server antagonist. That being said, should any post made not contribute to the public wealth of knowledge, such as posting, "i agree a. because unbread suck", "zar you're gay get a job", or anything akin will be hidden and will either be taken to private conversation, punishment if appropriate, or the gaping abyss in the Shards where all nonconstructive criticism and susitsu's tears go. Please, friends, let's chat.

[Zarsies 6795]

First, saving for if something large needs announced.

[Temp 2006]

Finish Undead via events and organized removals. Someone has an undead fortress beside their city, talk with the City's leadership to arrange events for that city and their allies to remove the undead. When this is done, sit down with every settlement and create a mini-antag of sorts, JUST for them. For example, an idea I had kicked around with a member of the ET / GM staff was a colony of rat people that lived in the sewers of Petrus. They'd eventually break out and begin assaulting civilians and literally anyone topside.

[Elad™ 560]

Add a poll to the thread?

[Naehr 1]

Completely remove your support to the cultists/Undead and cut them off. However, entail promises of power to them. The best group of RPers who provide the best events would get the support from the server to continue their endeavors. 

[CommunistSpy 441]

B - downgrade undead. I think they have an excellent potential to provide RP, but they shouldn't need crazy plugins and powers to do so.

[hellfiazz 879]

Perhaps we should have it go to B, and if people still aren't happy after a while they completely get removed.

Though I would really like to see this Aengudaemonic descension thingy, so I'll personally vote A.

[Zarsies 6795]

Finish Undead via events and organized removals. Someone has an undead fortress beside their city, talk with the City's leadership to arrange events for that city and their allies to remove the undead. When this is done, sit down with every settlement and create a mini-antag of sorts, JUST for them. For example, an idea I had kicked around with a member of the ET / GM staff was a colony of rat people that lived in the sewers of Petrus. They'd eventually break out and begin assaulting civilians and literally anyone topside.

 

Would you favor a prolonged downfall of the Undead, and then their complete eradication or the traits of option d.? I understand how more personal events like that can do stellar, Odrnarch with the Dwarves in Anthos for example, was a huge success as a racial antagonist. Smaller, personalized antagonists may function well in their place.

 

 

Add a poll to the thread?

 

No. I want replies with explained reasoning so we can all see why who says what so this can be talked about in depth.

[Goldrim 1422]

A. Too bad people couldn't live up to their word.

 

People have a hard time understanding the benefits of dynamic RP and that you can't please everyone, but on a liberal server like LoTC I'm not sure what else I expected.

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

I think you can do both actually. Make a storyline or event that downgrades the undead then a large event to defeat them. maybe? 

[Sambosefus 47]

I would prefer the downgrading of the undead and maybe having their appearance changed so that the more well known wouldn't be hunted down at every turn. I like the idea of them becoming less of an antagonist and more of a group of insane Iblees worshippers. If the decision is ultimately to eradicate them then perhaps you could do it gradually as the strongholds are removed until the final one is all that is left. That could provide some interesting rp. Oh and maybe make some new minions for him that do things differently.

[Cjmate 1270]

A. Keep Iblees and give him a brand new, original, well-thought out, PLANNED kit to work with. Including minions. The undead thing is overdone, and I think we only keep shoveling it out because undead mobs are so easy to spawn in.

[pfmvaz1996 379]

I would vote for the option 'a'

 

The undead and antagonists have proven to fail in the past. The Undead in Aegis served their purpose as to unite the players in fun, epic fights. Yet, LotC has evolved since then and the players themselves are now capable of antagonizing eachother and providing fun battle events. 

 

I suggest completely removing the undead and focusing the resources that once were put into the undead into creating other events, those that can be enjoyed by everyone and simply help create the environment in Athera more immersive. I'm suggesting events regarding nature, storms, floods, droughts, etc. The possibilities are infinite.

 

The antagonist serves no purpose and simply creates more inner rage when it is able to ally with player-run factions and use their over-powered plugins.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add that before in Aegis, people actually feared the Undead, at least I did. But now, I don't think anyone's afraid of leaving their safety and going outside. And if they are, it's not because of the Undead.

 

Thank you.

[TavernLich 324]

D. So that way we don’t feel like we are all plebs and ants underneath just ONE undead. Make them even weaker plz.

[Zarsies 6795]

Completely remove your support to the cultists/Undead and cut them off. However, entail promises of power to them. The best group of RPers who provide the best events would get the support from the server to continue their endeavors. 

 

Could you reiterate that? I don't fully understand what you're trying to get across.

 

 

Perhaps we should have it go to B, and if people still aren't happy after a while they completely get removed.

Though I would really like to see this Aengudaemonic descension thingy, so I'll personally vote A.

 

A mesh of options is totally viable. Should d. not work out, a. is also an option.

 

 

I think you can do both actually. Make a storyline or event that downgrades the undead then a large event to defeat them. maybe? 

 

A very large point in creating the Undead was that there would be no scripted events. We aren't going to set everything up so stuff falls like dominoes via magical conveniences; it's up to the players to instigate these changes, as well as the Undead.