Semi Controversal Matter

[Urasept 1361]

Alright so someone came to me on TS and had asked me if they would be allowed to do this. The basic principal is because Oren and Malinor/Dwarves are at war, they want to funnel Elves and dwarves out of Oren. He came to me and asked for the obvious reason of the request. I told him I would make a post for him in the staff section as I did not want to say yes or no to it, for obvious reasons.

 

I asked him to type up a brief thing of what he wanted to do, and is listed below. Once reading it you will know why I wanted to get staff opinion as well. 

 

 

<17:03:21> "Snowman": Soooo we wanna make an Elven death camp, and put elves into a crude outdoor sorta fenced in area, with little food and such, and do executions, torture, ect. There goal is to try and remove the entire races for the Creator and Oren, and have them die a painful death for being heretics and enemy to Oren.

[Ever 2648]

This is "I hate elf roleplayers and I know how to piss them off" and nothing more, especially considering who the idea came from.

[Gemmylou 484]

No thank you.

[Wretched 2075]

That's completely disgusting. Keep the holocaust out of LoTC. The deaths of hundreds of thousands of people is no joke, and we can't just let some angry gamers make a trolly replica of it in game.

[Rhia 936]

Yea I vote no. Its not needed, just have POWs. 

[Sky 0]

The only real problem I see coming from this is the very clear "Jew Death Camp" references that can be made out of it...

 

Apart from that, I see no reason against it.

 

Who am I to stand in the way of RP. 

[cruzazul 2815]

I think have that sort of holocaust similarity will only bring drama to an already tense situation. In my opinion showing a race's hate of another race can be done in a more tasteful manner with less chances for a flame war. I'd say no, unless it was agreed to by the majority of the elves which wouldn't likely happen.

If they can do it maturely I'd say go ahead but if it is causing problems it shouldn't stay.

[ski_king3 0]

I'm fairly certain the only reason several of us are opposed to this is because the term "death camp" was used. If they set up a prison for elves in which they put them to work, treat them poorly, and torture or kill them, I believe it should be allowed. However, I believe that we should explicitly tell them that reference or allusion to Nazi concentration/death camps is completely unacceptable. If they are to do this, they should steer clear of mentioning them, or presenting these camps in such a manner. Treat them as prisons, refer to them as prisons, and I think it should be allowed.

 

 

Basically, what Sky said.

[Wretched 2075]

Call it what you want, they have the mindset of "death camp" and have already been spreading this idea around both ICly and OOCly to each other. If this is allowed, you can be certain that this will simply be nazis with another name.

[Zarsies 6795]

There is a great a barrier between In-Character and Out-of-Character, and I feel 97% of the server has blurred boundaries on this. 

 

ANYTHING IC is simply IC, having nothing to do with OOC. It is childish to try to prevent RP that has great potential. But, due to flimsy human morals and the goal to seem relatively kind, I would suggest a name change. The reference is too literal and some might get 'offended', albeit indeed oversensitive.

[Zarsies 6795]

I'm fairly certain the only reason several of us are opposed to this is because the term "death camp" was used. If they set up a prison for elves in which they put them to work, treat them poorly, and torture or kill them, I believe it should be allowed. However, I believe that we should explicitly tell them that reference or allusion to Nazi concentration/death camps is completely unacceptable. If they are to do this, they should steer clear of mentioning them, or presenting these camps in such a manner. Treat them as prisons, refer to them as prisons, and I think it should be allowed.

 

 

Basically, what Sky said.

[Sky 0]

A death camp for all filthy Elves and Dwarves, caught in the grand kingdom of Oren.

Food rationing will be little, labor will be hard and the guards will be relentless.

Death toll is high, and caring level is low. 

Welcome to the Death Camps of Oren.

 

A prison set up for the Elves and Dwarves, caught illegally in the Kingdom of Oren's territory. 

Necessary rations of food will be provided, lots of toiling in the land for crimes and the guards will be enforcing the law.

Kingdom loyalty is high and rebellion is low.

Welcome to the Royal Prison of Oren

[Ever 2648]

ANYTHING IC is simply IC, having nothing to do with OOC. It is childish to try to prevent RP that has great potential. But, due to flimsy human morals and the goal to seem relatively kind, I would suggest a name change. The reference is too literal and some might get 'offended', albeit indeed oversensitive.

 

It's not though. They're just trolling the Elves.

[ski_king3 0]

It's not though. They're just trolling the Elves.

 

Then why don't we tell them that if this isn't enacted in a serious, non-trolly manner, it will be shut down and punished for. Say it should be implemented in a manner which explicitly creates enjoyable RP, and will be strictly overseen. If it isn't, then it will be shut down and anyone who is merely being insensitive will be punished harshly. I think that we're too quick to assume that the humans will exclusively use this to troll, rather than thinking that perhaps if we communicate with them candidly, they may shift their attempts to create a cooperative, fun experience.

 

If we simply say "no, you can't do this," it will only further the barrier between the staff and this portion of the playerbase. If we approach them with an attitude of cooperation, compromise and understanding, and encourage them to do this in a manner that is enjoyable for all and in a manner that is not insensitive, we'll look better for it, and we'll be more likely to see cooperation and consideration for others in the future. At least, that's what I've generally witnessed from similar situations.

[SparehoeCakes 547]

I voted the first. Yes. I don't agree with the nos. Oren has made it a point that they don't like Elves, let them do what they want with them. I can understand that is a lot like Nazis and whatever, but, I still don't really see an issue with it. If it gets bad, shut it down. But it'd be making an event. Maybe the antags could attack the camp, maybe the elven/others military can go raid the camp.

This camp, while it may offend 4 people on the server, can make LOADS of RP. If anything, I'd make a vague post in the Your View section asking the players what they think without giving specifics.

OH AND this doesn't really sound like trolling the elves. Trolling would just be killing them on sight. This would actually create RP....