A Proposal To Lock All Of The Magic Subtypes.

[Cyndikate 2303]

A proposal to lock all magics.

For those who asked me to give it time, I've given it a chance for four months. In fact, I had to wait a month before finally bringing this up.

From my observances, I have seen two subtypes that aren't even combat magics that went from free to locked because of a potential of being powergamed. In my opinion, all subtypes have a potential to be pg'd especially inadvertently due to how complex we made it to be. Making magic free was a bad idea to begin with.

Now let's get to why I'm proposing a lockdown on magic.

I'm proposing this change for our new players.

I have seen new players pick up free magics mess up and get yelled at by older players. If you wanted to get rid of elitism, sorry, it's still there. People are simply picking up free magics because it's free without taking the time of going on a journey to find a teacher or finding a tome. This completely devalues the current magic users of the universal subtypes, especially those that wish to teach. I am fully aware that the change was directed towards new players, but after I have had several hour long arguments with them on how to correctly use their magic, and the fact that new players are being ridiculed underhandly for power gaming magic without realizing it. I feel that it's better for them to find a teacher IC or finding a tome than them simply picking it up without roleplay and without knowing what they're dealing with. It's really the best way to RP magic without accidentally overstepping their boundaries and tarnishing their reputation among the community. I'm sorry but they need to work for it like everyone else. It's for their own good.

Learning magic through roleplay is much more rewarding than picking up and playing.

If you want to fix the new player retention rates, you have a lot more and possibly bigger problems that may contribute to the issue. That will be listed in a new thread.

- Does that mean that only players with connections will get access to magic?

Yes, but players can get connections through roleplay. Go find a mage's guild, go out and find a teacher. Go search libraries for tomes. Be like Joe Blackman. When I first met him, he was constantly around asking wizards to teach him magic. He was turned down, but the guy didn't give up. He kept trying and now his own ambition paid off. He's a geomancer, conjurer, necromancer and shade. New players should be encouraged to work hard and work their way up from rags to riches. Perseverance pays off. We want to encourage that.

- but if a player could swing a sword, a player can use magic too.

Magic should not be compared to swords, cooking, blacksmithing, etc. Magic is way too complex for that. There's a lot more to pyromancy than insta-casting a fireball. There are rules, and guidelines to magical roleplay. Magic is so complex that anyone can powergame it inadvertently.

If magic is meant to be treated as normal professions then why do mages have to lose physical strength, yet swordsman, archers, blacksmiths, doctors lose nothing when they are trained?

Why are there guidelines to magical roleplay and none to swordsman or archery? Why is there no guidelines on professions?

-New players can read the magic guides

This is wrong. Very wrong. As I am fully aware of the guides listed , this is basically expecting new players to read the forums. New players are being punished enough for not being active on the forums. Let's discourage forcing people to read the forums.

Guides in themselves are not enough to explain things. Magic, again can't be explained in words alone. There could be things omitted in the guide that could be a redline. Guides leave so many questions unanswered. For every guideline listed, there are 3 guidelines that were unlisted and should have been.

Again, they are better off getting a teacher. Guides don't always help.

-if newbies are doing it wrong, help them.

I tried. Really I did. I could only give them a few tips on how to improve, but tips alone aren't enough. For every new player I have personally helped, there are more who use it incorrectly without knowing better and being ridiculed because of it. For every tip I give to new players, there's 1-2 tips I should have given. As I said before, magic is so complex that it isn't that simple to explain things to the newbie and even then, they are much better off finding a teacher. Even being self taught gimps you on magic roleplay compared to getting a teacher.

This promotes elitism - Magic didn't promote elitism. The magic application system did. The system made it so you had to take 1-2 months to learn a spell. The magic app system made it so players had to wait 6RL months to qualify as teachers, only to have a limit of how many they are allowed to teach until a student reaches a certain tier, which can take weeks to months. This was one of the very things that made it harder for aspiring players to learn magic.

-You can always BR powergamers -

Yes you could. But unless there are some written set in stone guides to magical roleplay, GMs would likely have a hard time determining what is PG or what is acceptable. Magical powergaming is too subjective.

PVP default

PVP default is fine and all, but PVPing the newbies who came on the server to RP is asking them to leave. We want to keep our newbies. Not push them away.

My magical story.

Let me tell you about myself. Starting at the end of May I would have been a user of magic for 2 years. I always place a high standard for everything I do in life. Role playing in a game is no exception. I was a perfectionist, and will not stand for mistakes whether it's in the game or real life, or when I work on art projects. Everything had to be done right. Everything had to be followed to a T. When I was self taught in Illusion a while back, I only followed guides and sticked to what I was supposed to know and didn't stray far from it. I only recieved small IC guidance. I OOCly relied on players like Kalameet to help me do it right. I have made attempts to copy other illusion users with the assumption I'm doing it right, but I get labeled as a powergamer even though I try to do it correctly. Even though I read the guides and followed things to a T, there are still 59 things about illusion that I don't know about yet that I should that guides didn't include. Things I would have learned if I had an IC teacher. To this day, I still regret self learning illusion.

When I first started learning Water Evocation from a teacher, I didn't ask for it. In fact, learning magic was the last thing I expected. In fact, I was slightly OOCly uncomfortable with it because you lose physical ability, but as someone who likes to ICly roll with things, I just rolled with it. I wanted to see how magic affected my character. There were no guides or lore at the time, I just stuck to what I was taught.

[Demotheus 651]

I disagree...I think...

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for here. Lock it for newbies?

 

Okay how about this.

 

Lets make applications again : but not like before.

 

A simple "How did this character learn magic?" will be fine for the "IC' part.

 

Then just have them answer a few general questions about their wanted subtype(s), or perhaps magic as a whole, to make sure they have an idea as to what they're doing.

[Treshure 5817]

At first I said no to the title, but then I read. I did work my ass off when I joined for magic, simply because I loved the RP of it. And it felt rewarding when I actually did get it. LotC is still a roleplay server, and I can see so many people using all sorts of magic with not a single speck of knowledge about said magic. The regulation there was for a purpose.

[Ventusyr 233]

I agree with all these things. I have since magic was made free. One of the reasons I even stayed on the server was because I wanted to learn magic and finding teachers was fun. I only learned domestic in the end, but hey. It was a good series of roleplay experiences! I say we return applications, but perhaps shorten how long it takes to become a teacher, lighten the requirements, and make applications simpler. What should be required is a tome or teacher so people know you know what you're doing, not a demand for screenies.

[tnoy23 202]

The only issue I personally had with the old MAs was the cap on how many students a teacher could teach. /THAT/ is where the elitism came from IMO.

 

Why should I choose this guy who I've never heard of who waltzed up to me and asked for magic before asking my name over my friend who has only asked once for the last spot for 3 IRL months?

[Ford 1996]

I actually agree.

[IrishPerson 693]

We already got rid of magic applications, this is just another form of them returning. Rather then locking magic for new players we should teach new players through example how to roleplay magic in a manner that may not be seen as powergaming.

[Lago 2572]

Not much point. Everything'll get shaken up when the Magic Plugin hits anyway.

[eleganthamster 4]

If you see a newbie roleplaying magic incorrectly or just roleplaying badly, help them, direct them to a guide. :I

 

(make sure to be nice about it btw)

[tnoy23 202]

We already got rid of magic applications, this is just another form of them returning. Rather then locking magic for new players we should teach new players through example how to roleplay magic in a manner that may not be seen as powergaming.

 

That really only goes so far and usually takes months to have any noticeable effect, as opposed to rarely, if ever with this.

 

If you see a newbie roleplaying magic incorrectly or just roleplaying badly, help them, direct them to a guide. :I

 

(make sure to be nice about it btw)

 

OP stated the flaws with this already. Guides don't go far enough, and unless you're teaching them, there isn't enough time or info on their issue to really help.

[Sky 0]

I always assumed that no matter the magic, you still had to be taught in RP and that you didn't have to make an app anymore.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

Just make people provide screenshots of their training or the tome they read.

[Cyndikate 2303]

Just make people provide screenshots of their training or the tome they read.

This is partially what I'm suggesting.

[Kardel 1054]

A month ago or so i was on my human. I went raiding, considering i based this guy off a Germanic barbarian. Then. . .a player proceeded to call RP combat, which I agreed to directly. Little did I know that this player, which was probably fresh off the application forum and had read tiny parts of the water evocation guide, considered himself a master and kinda froze my character completely claiming he had just conjured up a large sheet of ice which would glue my character to the ground, and that he could not break out of it.

 

Being a student of fire evocation with the old system, i know how arcane magic works, especially evocation since I spent two months submitting screenshots and receiving lectures before i even conjured my first failed flame wick to my teacher. Since then I have avidly practiced fire evocation and tend to get annoyed when people call themselves master pyromancers and go around doing firenovas (which I never learned through my now 11 months of being a fire evocation expert, not even a master yet, because I still work with the old old system, and never gave it up whilst progressing) killing my characters with bad, low quality rp that i cannot help but accept because I find these people nuisances who simply refuse to be taught even when I try to give them tips on improving.

 

I'm all for the old magic system. Elitism. . .you talk as if it is a bad thing. We're turning LotC into Skyrim. Will this drive people away? Yes, it will. It will drive the un-dedicated away, and leave those truly dedicated to become mages. Magic will become a rarity, like it once was, not an option, like it is in Skyrim. The firenova is never and will never be equal to the sword. You cannot compare mages with swordsmen. 

 

Now, if you want to give everyone a chance, restart the whole magic system. I don't mind giving my progress up for some good, quality magic rp, and I even though I know others do mind. . .this might be a good thing. 

 

Nonetheless, I completely agree with everything stated in this post and can relate myself to this. Bring a magic system, even if it is a simple one with no purpose other than documenting the magic users. Just regulate this damn system. 

[Treshure 5817]

I always assumed that no matter the magic, you still had to be taught in RP and that you didn't have to make an app anymore.

As if people follow this rule. I've met plenty who made up who they were taught by.