A Different Look On Ores And Mines

[Jistuma 1996]

Diamonds don't need to be so limited.

 

Our 4.0 design theory is that we bottleneck crafting, not limit materials, that hasn't worked yet in our history and instead proves frustrating. Materials can be plentiful.

Worked in Aegis.

[Hiebe 2493]

Hey finally someone is bringing up my old idea again ! Good job seb even though you forgot the copyright ;P jkjk

I never saw LOA mines as I thought we were gonna use womores but this works so much better and easy to do and use.

[DrakeHaze. 2524]

I just want sand and sandstone in my mines, it's a pain to gather without griefing some desert biome >.>

[Rivk Zavadsky 700]

Loa mines were absolutely a nightmare,

I'd say

 

 

 

 

3.0 mine system :)

[Telanir 6975]

Worked in Aegis.

 

No lol. We won't limit materials.

[Priceflash 832]

there's already ores in the main 4.0 and there will be mcgen

there's literally no point in adding this

[River 555]

So this will probably be my last post as I try to summarize what exactly this threads message is supposed to send (Shiftnative and Freya take note). I know that 4.0 already has a system in place for what mining will be like, and a method to help balance out gathering resources, from producing goods with those resources, and I'm pretty sure it will be very great at doing so, but this post isn't addresing the abundance of iron, the lack of a useful mining system, but rather the amount of RP that this system can provide.

 

The current mining system in place (from what I've gathered) is that the world will be open, any player can go out, mine to their hearts content, return with an abundance of wealth unsurpassed by any other player who didn't do that, but rather went straight to RPing. Lets just say, if you were to remove all of the ores from the map, then players wouldn't have that desire to go out into the wilds, tamper with the natural beauty, or make things that don't look aesthetically pleasing. Players are allowed to mine as freely as they please, there is little interaction between player to player, and in this open world, players will rather go to some uncharted terretory, strip mine hidden under the cover of night, wipe their tracks and escape with a large sum of iron.

 

The proposed idea is to help encourage RP between nations, while also creating a great source for mining, having things be specialized, unique in the dull world of grey, in a sensible way that balances each nation and their priorities. You'll notice that some of the nations mines aren't very appealing, and it's supposed to be that way. Some races strength simply don't lie in mining, while every race has some sort of unique materials, they are still required to mine, it's just that depending on the nation, there will be more or less miners, and bigger or smaller economies revolving around trade of ores.

 

I've done this, and it really doesn't take long, neither does clearing a worlds ores (well that might take a while.) This system provides the government officials a source of income, by being able to tax players who enter mines, and hopefully regulating traffic by setting some sort of miners union, or miners guild so that mining efforts are at least controlled, and ores not kept by the miners. This also helps a lot of in game issues, such any players access to sand. Orcs often rely on defacing the environment in order to get the sand they need to produce sand, by making a small 100x100 square surounded by a layer of bedrock with unique blocks and generic blocks you're able to provide them a source of sand, income, enhanced RP by making players who want glass to come to the Orcish nation, create professions surrounding glass smelting (glass vials, stained glass, and RP jobs revolving around glass.) The Orcs also get a lot of visiters in search of redstone, or perhaps the rare good of redsand for whatever reason they want it for, since there is no other way to get it.

 

For the humans, they're giving simple ores, with the addition of a new 1.8 stone variant, and clay. Clay is often sought by every brewer on the server, can be used for decoration, and can expand RP for humans by enforcing a trade policy, this increase in RP due to the uniqueness of each nations mine makes mining fun, worthwhile, and trade between every nation. For sake of normal players getting the minerals they need if they really want to mine without going to their main nation mines, there can be generic mines which only offer stone, coal, iron, gravel and gold in reduced percentages, which give players still a way to gather the resources they need (at a cost which will hopefully encourage them to go to the main mines) while not having players deface the natural beauty of the open world.

 

If asking for more RP is wrong, please tell me why, I'm trying to get this idea into the developers heads so that for either 5.0, or some later patch in 4._ they introduce this, because this has far more benefits than it does drawbacks. I really want to see this implemented because it's honestly a good idea.

 

P.S. Griff mining on LoA didn't go well because we had iron at 5%, as you can see here, it's much closer to vanilla

 

P.S.S. Telanir, this isn't to shorten the amount of resources found, the numbers can be toyed with, and the resources can be toyed with, it's simply the idea that has to live on.

[whiteoak123 9]

For the humans, they're giving simple ores, with the addition of a new 1.8 stone variant, and clay. Clay is often sought by every brewer on the server, can be used for decoration, and can expand RP for humans by enforcing a trade policy, this increase in RP due to the uniqueness of each nations mine makes mining fun, worthwhile, and trade between every nation. For sake of normal players getting the minerals they need if they really want to mine without going to their main nation mines, there can be generic mines which only offer stone, coal, iron, gravel and gold in reduced percentages, which give players still a way to gather the resources they need (at a cost which will hopefully encourage them to go to the main mines) while not having players deface the natural beauty of the open world.

P.S.S. Telanir, this isn't to shorten the amount of resources found, the numbers can be toyed with, and the resources can be toyed with, it's simply the idea that has to live on.

If nations charge to get into mines, which will happen with this system, what about the new players who have nothing? The prices will raise to get into the mines as 4.0 continues onward, eventually costing quite a bit, which new players do not have. With the Nexus Craft plugin, creating items already takes quite a long time, limiting what can be made, why also limit the raw material itself? Lastly, nations do not need more money, look at /money top, 4/5 of those players are very high up one of the 4 major nations. They do not need any more source of income, them make plenty as it is. 

[River 555]

in almost no way are the raw materials hindered with this process, this simply redirects who gets these materials and makes players have to spend more time to get these materials by venturing out and trading with other players, which will encourage road rp, have a sense of progression and so forth. The price if anything to enter a mine would decrease, don't forget that with this there should obviously be free open mines players can go to in order to get basic materials such as stone, coal, iron, gold and gravel, but at a reduced percentage making these resources harder to find than if you were to mine at one of the main nation mines.

 

Players who sought to mine can do so freely at one of the general mines containing general materials that are already found in every nation mine. At the cost that they have to put in a little more effort to get these materials, all while taking away the need for players to venture out into the wilds for the soul purpose of strip mining. This gives players a place to mine while still having mining rules be regulated so players don't abuse minecraft mechanics, while adding RP to every nation by making the mines more "fun", organized, and effective at that. One of the best benefits is what Drake has already agreed upon, that orcs can mine sand and sandstone alike, without griefing in order to get those materials. As well as the above mentioned benefits I said earlier.

 

Things to take away from this;

• Players who still wish to mine without the need of going to a Nation mine to pay for it, have access to a general mine at the cost of reduced percentages making materials a little hard to find. This way players can be centralized, and mine as they please while adhering to the server rules for mining, and all be together somewhere where RP can take place, instead of venturing out somewhere random and doing the complete opposite. Also note that Villains and others alike who wouldn't otherwise gain access can gain access to these mines as they're open to anyone.
• Make mining more fun by adding materials not normally found in mining, and that clearly reflect each nation. Makes your mining seem more rewarding since you're not mining something everyone else has access to, but rather you're mining something precious other players will eventually want. Or not want, perhaps mining isn't that Nations strong suit, as elves aren't known for their miners, thus they're given a few materials that keep them astray from mining, but still enough materials so that they're encouraged to mine for the sake of getting those items on the market (since no one else has them)

Keep in mind the ores, percentages and the like can be altered to fit each nations needs, but this is the general idea of what the mining system could look like. So far majority of the people who have posted have agreed to this kind of mines, while some have offered advice or their opinions. Very few have actually disregarded this, so this should place this thread somewhere on the positive side of things. I hope this thread grows because I really think this should be implemented..

 

P.S. I've also heard about making RP centralized which is the whole 4.0 motto, or what players have been begging, and this achieves just that, by either discouraging players to mine and pick up another profession, or still mining with all the above mentioned benefits. Also to note that the percentages aren't enough put someone off of the server, since the percentages are pretty close to vanilla, or can be altered to match vanilla. 

[River 555]

By the way everyone, I just posted a revised version of my suggestion taking into account what everyone has said thus far, while clarifying things and talking a bit more about it.

[Jistuma 1996]

You forgot clay now =P

[River 555]

Humans

• Stone
• Coal
• Iron
• Gold
• Gravel
• Clay
• Diorite
• Water
• Diamonds

Nuh-uh, and be more productive with your posts regarding my revised version, looking for some good feedback.

[Jistuma 1996]

Damn I didn't see it, thought I don't really have anything bad to say about it, this is my idea as well, I just didn't go into it in my other post. On the other hand, clay is useful for many things, so I would suggest it would exist in the normal mines as well, even if just in small quantities. Things like flower pots are very used and cheap, but having to go to the human nation only so as to get pots seems a bit extreme in my opinion.

[River 555]

Hmm, clay really isn't game changing but it's important, and since humans have little to nothing in terms of clay and diorite (when it comes out, because at launch of 4.0 it would only be clay). That would get rid of just about all of the human income derived from mining excluding sale of iron. Clay is general, which is important that it goes to humans since they're the "general" race, people should be venturing towards the humans lands more so than other places which fits nice into the grand scheme of things.

 

Plus mugs and use of decoration, mugs are hugely important which should be the main driving force for players to go there, but I can see where players might have to do that. Hopefully it doesn't take 30 minutes to get to the human city, since we've been telling the staff to make the distance shorter for the last 3 years, hopefully they listened :I .

 

What I really want is a deeper consideration towards this system by a developer, gm or admin. Either to shut me down so I don't have to ponder whether this system will ever be introduced, or at least being told "Great Idea, I'll being it up at the next staff meeting" or something. Either that, or some helpful feedback.

 

Either there's nothing wrong with it and it's perfectly find or people aren't commenting :I , and I tried as close I could to get it perfectly close to a final product encase the staff wanted to take it to the next level. I even have the percentages to plugin, or some roundabout percentages they can base them off :/ .

[Ever 2648]

I read through the main post and then kinda skimmed through the rest so I might be missing some details. I'll re-read the thread tomorrow and reply with a more informative post if needed.

 

I don't know if you were here for the second half of Anthos/3.0, but we tried something that was incredibly similar to this, if not the exact same thing. Because the map had hidden pockets of worldpainted ore stashed around the map, the map underwent some pretty heavy World Editing which resulted in the removal of all iron/coal/diamond/etc found in the natural map. Since there was technically no mining, we attempted a few different solutions until finally agreeing on a system that worked basically like yours.

 

Around the map were mine entrances. Upon entering them, you'd be warped to a seperate Multiverse world, inside of a huge stone block. When I say huge, I mean it. Each block was like 800x800x70 or something like that, if not bigger. Here you could freely dig until you hit the WorldGuarded barrier that was on each end. Each nation/race had it's own cube with their own unique ores alongside the basics (coal/iron/gravel/etc). This system worked okay except for one problem: people mined a lot.

 

This led to making just one huge cube (like 5000x5000x200) with entrances all across the map. Nations still had their own mine entrances around the map which led to heavier concentrations of certain ore (their 'racial' ore), but you could tunnel your way across the world if you so inclined. This worked pretty well I think.

 

There's a few things you have to remember though:

 

1) We're a Minecraft Roleplaying Server. Not 100% roleplay, not 100% Minecraft. There's a few things (imo) that shouldn't require extensive amounts of roleplay. Mining, mob killing, and building are my big three. If you wanna mine, go ahead. Just don't x-ray and no strip mining. You don't have to spend oodles of time emoting and writing sentences to collect some stone & ore. You can if you want to, of course, but I think most people just want to zone out, talk to their friends on teamspeak or skype, and enjoy some mining. Claiming that mining hurts roleplay is silly because we shouldn't be focusing 100% on roleplay. The game should still be heavily influenced by Minecraft and the basic mechanics! You don't have to roleplay the entire time you're online. Want to spend a week exploring the world and building a house on a small island 2,000 blocks out to sea without talking to another character? Sure, go ahead! 

 

I think what I'm getting at is that people enjoy the server differently. If some people like to mine 20 hours a day, let them diggy diggy their holes and not try and hurt that, as long as they're not negatively influencing the server.

 

2) Depending on how you're managing your mines, it can put a big strain on the server. Originally, I'd have to stay up/get up reaaal early and make life hell for the Australian players. It'd take 3-4 hours to set up the mines using World Edit, and each edit would either lag the server for 2-5 seconds or outright crash it. That doesn't sound too bad till you realize I had to do a good 30-40 edits. Crashes, lag, possible corruption = no bueno. 

 

We eventually went with World Painting the map then just uploading it the server but that too was a hassle as it required co-operation between 2-3 different people. It was much better than the original system, though.

 

3) It changes the basics too much. The main problem the server has had in the past year or two is that starting out is rough. You don't know anyone, you're getting your footing and learning how to properly roleplay in-game, all while having to deal with human bandits robbing you, Orcs trying to eat, starving out in the wilderness, and getting chased by hordes of zombies. It's really tough! What if some newbie joins and ponies up enough minas to get a pickaxe and some torches. They spend a few hours digging around and can't find any ore! What's the deal? They have no idea what the issue is unless they ask someone and not everyone will.

 

I like the system when it can be properly explained and everyone understands it, but I'd still prefer ore be placed in the ground naturally. It's simple, everyone understands it, and it doesn't depend on outside mods that just frankly break sometimes (we've had Multiverse warps just outright disappear before, which sucks because then you'd have to replace 40~ mine warps.) I can't remember exactly what we're doing in 4.0 but I think it will be similiar to 3.0. Ore will not be in the ground. Mine entrances around the world will teleport you to a multiverse map where you can mine to your heart's content. It hasn't been discussed too much lately as the main focus has been... well, ya know, building the map :P I think the best way to handle it is a middleground between the two systems. Ore can be found on the main map, as well as in Multiverse mines. You get the benefits of both systems without any real downsides.

 

I like the donater idea too. My idea was similar, donaters could get mine entrances placed on their world protected plots for free while normal players/cities/guilds could pay a fee (5,000 minas or something) to get one set up. It wasn't so much a personal mine as convenient access to the mine.

 

edit: just re-read some 4.0 dev stuff. I don't want to reveal too much but it's safe to say that 4.0 mining will be similar to 3.0 but better.

 

tl;dr: we tried this for a few months, basically 1:1 the idea you have. It worked well besides a few hiccups and kinks, but I think it's best to keep ore in the ground or have both systems working at once.