Remove Trap!

[1 1393]

[Narthok 10416]

 

The server is shaping up to be a PvP Factions-Towny server atm.

Players get minimal protections to avoid unsanctioned damages, which leads to exploits to bypass defences.

(If we had TNT, people would be using TNT cannons to breach walls.)

The typical slop of a Factions server prior to combat is replaced by, "Dave Swings at Rick. ((5-4-3-2-1))" and there's no real limitation or loss to raiding. There are a good 20 abandoned crap-shacks and forts all over the map. Every major structure has some incredibly un-rp maze of booby traps and pit falls and the best part about A LOT of this crap, we're just attracting more Factions-PVP folks.

When we win or lose, the most RP anyone gets out of it is, "Victory 'generic trolly regard.' 'Group' just got rekt. KEK. Ok guys, lets go **** post."

 

Will people **** bricks because you changed their rules? Of course they will but, rules are what shape the server into what it's trying to be.

 

Tg for gm :D

[Space 2335]

Ah please so much.

[Temp 2006]

Tg for gm :D

Hell no.

[mmat 7460]

 

 

 

Because you're one of the people who uses traps an absurd amount, you don't get an opinion.

[Lago 2572]

I'm not showing any discontent. Why is this traps stuff a big deal when I have heard many times that we  are moving to the Minecraft direction of roleplay? Many times we have people telling me that if X is done in MC, it can be done in RP. This is where I'm very confused.

None of this makes any sense.

 

It's a big deal because it makes forts invincible and battles just descend into arguments as a result. Mechstandard is there to streamline and make things fun, and it is overridden where it does not create fun.

 

As for sieges, I think the way to go is more rules and structure. People will optimise their forts to win, so we write rules that encourage fun fort design. The main thing is we need to remove the ability for defenders to to create invincible craftbook+worldguard+lwc areas while not giving the attackers the ability to mine the walls.

• Ban anklebiters. For those that don't know, an anklebiter is a half-block high slit that uses (or abuses) the way attacks are aimed in LotC to attack people's feet without them being able to attack back. A long anklebiter corridor is essentially death. Arrow slits are fine as are narrow holes to attack through, but we disallow anklebiters for all sides.
• Ram Impassability Rule. Essentially, if a situation is created where the attackers cannot pass (such as a craftbook or LWC door) and they drive off all attackers in melee range they can RP a ram or equivalent. The overseeing GM will then break open the door and gut the machinery operating it. This is only if the gate controls can't be accessed by the attackers. Likewise, a GM can create a 1x1 bridge across an impassable pit. This rule discourages impassble barricades in favour of difficult-to-bypass barricades: if you build an invincible barrier it can be blown open. If it's possible for the attackers to open it, then the overseeing GM will not ram it open. You may think that that's unrealistic (why not just ram it anyway) but the aim here is fun siege battles than visceral realism that MC isn't built for.
• Oneshot traps only. If a craftbook or lava trap is deployed, it can only be deployed once. Ideally traps should be designed to only allow them to fire once without a manual reset, if they aren't, the overseeing GM will gut the trap.
• Siege Camps: Extending that region idea, the attacking force are given a small region near to the place they're warclaiming to set up a siege camp in the days leading up to the battle. You know, for like, RP and stuff.
• Siege Engines: The attackers can build either a siege tower or battering ram prior to the battle in their siege camp. At the beginning of the battle, the overseeing GM will worldedit the siege tower up to the walls in a position chosen by the attackers, or worldedit the ram up to the main gates and break them open.
• Locked Doors: Aren't a thing during a battle. As with the impassability rams, if a door is LWCed the overseeing GM can remove it for the attackers. Alternatively, we could have the convention that the attackers are given the door password OOC, provided it's kept under 6 characters to prevent abuse by stupidly long ones.
• No ladders: The other rules allow the access of any area. Ladders are no longer needed and interfere with a few other things. Besides, we have siege towers nau.
• Clear victory conditions: The siege has a clear objective, something like reach the flagpole atop the central keep and secure it via a mechanic. For example, this flag is on a base of 9 obsidian blocks, break them all and the keep is captured. That, or with the rules allowing access anywhere in the fort, simply kill everyone.

 

Hopefully rules such as that will encourage the construction of defensible but defeatable forts rather than invincible trapfilled murderbunkers by means of making murderbunkers worse than more thematic fortresses.

 

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

As far as I'm aware, war will be consensual in 4.0, right? I've not been on top of things, if it changed, I'm not aware.

 

If such is true, what difference would this rule make? The same "I have to win" attitude that manifests itself in traps will simply divert to warclaim denial. As for raids? Most proposals here seem to require GM-monitoring. Great for battles, not so much for raids, so I doubt much will change for them.

[Lago 2572]

Raids can be stopped by a wall. That's we're getting so many rage posts from a certain group of players: the walls are working.

[Jachnun 566]

I'm not showing any discontent. Why is this traps stuff a big deal when I have heard many times that we  are moving to the Minecraft direction of roleplay? Many times we have people telling me that if X is done in MC, it can be done in RP. This is where I'm very confused.

None of this makes any sense.

First of all, I request you stop with this atitude it just seems like spam because its so unnecessary. 

 

And yes, I agree with Lago. Walls do the trick but traps just ruin the fun. I believe that we need some force to shift the player's attitude and removing traps is a good start. 

[River 555]

I support this 100% , traps shouldn't be abused off of their MC mechanics, but should be used to either enhance RP by making things a little more difficult, or used in such a way that isn't abusive.

 

Remember there will almost always be a loosing side, but one side shouldn't have to abuse mc mechanics just to be the winner, it's essentially powergaming.

 

+1

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

Raids can be stopped by a wall. That's we're getting so many rage posts from a certain group of players: the walls are working.

 

Exactly, so I don't quite see what removing traps will accomplish. The players who trap everything to eliminate the risk of losing will probably deny warclaims for the same reason, and raids are usually stopped by the walls before traps can come into play.

[River 555]

I feel like before a raid can take place a GM should sweep the fort for any stupid traps and tell the defenders what they can and cannot use, there were never problems with this in the past, but it's the servers fault for leaning toward a larger pvp default system which has attracted more pvp based players, for introducing and encouraging using cheap Minecraft mechanics in order to win. At this point there should be some kind of GM intervention, or addition to rules when it comes to traps and defenses because anyone can make a fort completely indestructible and impassable while abusing Minecraft mechanics. Plus there are a ton of cheap tricks that aren't realistic at all, and simply shouldn't exist.

 

This post has already gotten +26 in a short amount of time, compared to other posts this should be granted the attention it deserves and should be mentioned in the next Admin/GM meeting, because more and more this has gotten out of hand. The game simply isn't enjoyable anymore when you base everything around mcmechanics in your powergamy efforts to win. The attention this post has gotten demands some kind of response by the staff.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

I feel like before a raid can take place a GM should sweep the fort for any stupid traps and tell the defenders what they can and cannot use, there were never problems with this in the past, but it's the servers fault for leaning toward a larger pvp default system which has attracted more pvp based players, for introducing and encouraging using cheap Minecraft mechanics in order to win. At this point there should be some kind of GM intervention, or addition to rules when it comes to traps and defenses because anyone can make a fort completely indestructible and impassable while abusing Minecraft mechanics. Plus there are a ton of cheap tricks that aren't realistic at all, and simply shouldn't exist.

 

This post has already gotten +26 in a short amount of time, compared to other posts this should be granted the attention it deserves and should be mentioned in the next Admin/GM meeting, because more and more this has gotten out of hand. The game simply isn't enjoyable anymore when you base everything around mcmechanics in your powergamy efforts to win. The attention this post has gotten demands some kind of response by the staff.

Most raids (fortunately) don't get past the walls. To add to that, it would be impossible to have a GM at every raid. Walls and traps are what happen when raiders tell the raided to 'deal with it in rp' instead of trying to work something out.

 

Warclaims? If you get an accepted warclaim, just treb the base to pieces.

[Temp 2006]

Most raids (fortunately) don't get past the walls. To add to that, it would be impossible to have a GM at every raid. Walls and traps are what happen when raiders tell the raided to 'deal with it in rp' instead of trying to work something out.

 

Warclaims? If you get an accepted warclaim, just treb the base to pieces.

Build base underground, line all entries with traps and the base cannot be sieged. Trebs or no.

[Solaba 144]

Wonder why Battle of Dreadfort was a great battle? Because people actually fought each-other instead of sitting in dark trenches cutting at peoples ankles cause they have no strategy.