[Discussion, Brainstorm]Lotc Combat Overhaul

[_pok_ 1768]

Preface:

I suppose that all the needed plugins for 4.0 are nearing the end of their development and that this feedback probably will only be considered if the PvP Aspects of Nexus are again considered less than satisfactory. However, that is no reason to disregard this topic by simply reading the title. Instead, Tech Team, take what I have written down for you here today and analyze what you have made, consider it, and ask yourselves if any of this feedback could be implemented or already exists.

 

After re-reading I believe a lot of this feedback is directed especially to major sieges/battles rather than small skirmishes and raids, but I still think these changes would considerably help those scenarios as well.

 

 

First of all combat on LoTC used to be this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtn_biskZIw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0U-BpSGBok

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9QwG1L99H8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt7yv39JDZk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BLdunMgPQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ68TaEX7kM

 

[There is a video here were Munch can literally hold is own with a stone axe. That could not be done, period, on LoTC today.]

 

 

It was fluid, fast paced, and extremely tactical. Moves were calculated and planned by commanders before the battle and ultimately battles were just fun to be apart of. You could RP during the battle, as seen above, without too much worry of being killed while still being relatively out in the open. Each class of soldier had a purpose, including medics, and it made a battle much more dynamic as well as strategic.

 

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Important Things to Note

Axes were equal to swords!

Nothing frustrates me more now than not being able to roll into battle with an axe and know that it will do the same amount of damage as a sword as well as have an increased chance of breaking both weapons and armor. They were a could DPS type of weapon and you usually wanted the people who used axes in the vanguard to really beat the **** out of the enemy before sending in your swordsmen, which leads into my next point.

 

Swordsmen were badasses and anybody could do it

With the way the plugin worked, the higher level you had the higher chance of critical hits, blocking, and parrying you had increased [similar to axes except replacing blocking and parrying with weapon/armor breaking]. You could be the worst PvPer on the planet but still have a decent chance when you blocked and parried/counter attacked your assailant [all of this without that annoying right click for blocking as well]. Swordsmen were badass and would act as a tank. Knights served a real purpose as they could be fast attack tanks and even 5 people could take out 25 [as seen in some of the examples in the video].

 

Armor had weight

At first this was a little shaky because many of us were not used to it or flat out opposed to it plus Vaq made the armor all unrealistically heavy initially as well. This was not introduced initially with the other skills but once it was it changed the game for good. Now light armored guys had a purpose and this could also play in well now if people actually want to do horse cavalry with lighter horsemen and whatnot. After the playerbase got used to it we came to love the diverse sort of loadouts you could make and prepare yourself for battle.

 

ARCHERS. ******* ARCHERS.

This one gets me a little heated because right now archers have no use and archery can be so much fun when it is balanced. Archers used to be badass in Asulon. Leather armor gave them a buff and once the armor weight thing was reduced you couldn’t even fire a bow in armor heavier than chain. They dealt a lot of damage and it made it useful to have a good number of archers sitting in a tower that was defended by some swordsmen to fight off the incoming assault.

IF YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD OF WHAT I WRITE, PLEASE JUST LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT ARCHERS

 

There was no such thing as a Bunker

Because of the way combat worked it was almost detrimental to sit in the same place too long. Especially when your impenetrable fortress could be infiltrated by any means of siege weaponry at any given time. Ankle biters and the like were Anthosian inventions once the plugin was gone and we realized now we were on equal standing. This is probably the second most important thing and if we don’t want to make a rule outlawing bunkers then at least do this to discourage it.

 

Gunpowder was a game changer and enhanced dynamism

The heading says it all. With a piece of TNT you could break through somebodies uber-1337 fortress of solitude and storm in with your elite team of swordsmen and sabotage a defense. It became a popular tactic and it is where most of the ‘squad tactics’ you see today on LoTC actually developed so that commanders could coordinate these sort of attacks. I’ve been a major advocate of bringing back canons and all that to increase dynamic roleplay and Techs I’m sure you guys could just make ‘canon parts’ and ‘gunpowder’ ridiculously expensive and make it it’s own profession so that you literally need a dedicated person to do it.

 

Gold had Value! [Also bring back Diamond, damnit]

In the plugin mining and buying gold was useful and made it valuable to have. Gold weapons were, in Vaq's own description 'legendary' and were pretty hard to craft. Not everybody had these weapons or the diamond armor that you see featured in the videos. Every ore had a use and every item had a use. Please make this happen so that when I find gold I don't just say 'fk' and walk away from it.

 

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Combat Now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiQpzU26wnQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M4YROx6E0o

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAO7zXB6ZiM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo6Uj_1TNrM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_N6TTMgOGE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYvHtMNPykM

 

We literally took a step backward….

 

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Combat is dull, it’s boring, and we're at the point where a battle normally consists of three parts:

 

The Textbook Three of LoTC

pok the master of rhythm and rhyme

1] Pre-Battle Hype, Preparing to go to war

1a) If defending, prepare your murder holes and traps and make sure no possible way in

 

2] Show up to the battlefield, take a look at the massive part aboveground/part underground fort standing before you. It looks straight out of a PvP Server!

2a) If defending, snicker and laugh as you watch them hopelessly hit your defenses with useless siege weapons. Maybe watch a youtube video or shoot the **** with a buddy in TS.

 

3]The Defenders get so bored that the idea starts to go through the ranks “We got ‘em. Let’s go out. Come on this is boring as ****! Let’s charge!” They sally out and either win or lose. Two hours of build up leads to this. No result.

 

[i was on the side of the Carrions in the Mount Augustus battle. Just saying.]

 

^^^^ is not how war should be fought on any roleplay server. It literally feels like a PvP factions raid and the most RP anybody gets out of it is some useless banter between buddies on opposite sides while everybody else is screaming their head off in TS about ‘I FOUND A WAY IN’ or ‘THEY GOT ME WITH THAT GODDAMN 1 HOLE COBWEB TRAP!’

 

This needs to change if we want an attitude change in how the playerbase feels about combat as a whole.

 

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Now you’re thinking “But Poookkkk battles were still as long in the old system.”

 

Yeah I know, but take a look at the difference between the videos for a minute. Look at the RP that was going on in those ABOVE GROUND forts in the old system and the sort of things that were happening and then take a look at the next examples. Battles took that long because they were strategic mind games between the commanders. It was actually important to have a good man leading your troops and it was important to have an even distribution of each type of soldier. There were mini-battles in those battles, retreats and sallies forth, and other dynamic scenarios that could only happen because of the plugin and what it allowed. The only battle that even slightly resembled that of an old time LoTC battle, and what I think personally was the last great battle, was the Battle of The Dreadfort. After the Dreadfort something clicked and we suddenly became PvP Factions oriented base builders. This is not only detrimental to combat on LoTC, but the server as a whole.

 

“But Pooooookkk why r u flippin out m8? It’s a temp map!”

 

This hasn’t just been an issue on the Temp map. It was an issue in 2.5, 2.5.5, 3.0, and now the Fringe. If things do not change it will continue to be an issue. I have a lot of faith in the Tech team but I also think that they may not have focused on this aspect or maybe really understand just how important it is to a lot of LoTCers [+ NexusPvP makes me have my doubts, it is kinda a bad scar].

 

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That’s it! Reply with your thoughts on the idea and if you disagree with me plz fk off i h8 u [jk comment so i can destroy u!]

 

…. also +1

 

[Lago 2572]

I wouldn't be opposed to a fancy Telanir-style implementation of TNT.

[~≈Panda≈~ 290]

What if the server went back to RP? This is a brain storm after all, and that is just Panda's two cents. She sure has not been here for a while, but there does not seem to be a single one of her friends who seems all that happy with this server. Your advertisements seems to still say that you roleplay, but all of these talks of PvP plugins just detracts  from the literature and stories that you can all tell with each other in interesting ways...

Eh, what does Panda even know?

[cmack1028 549]

TNT needs to come back, no question. Sure, make it insanely expensive to craft and restrict it even further with the professions plugin, but please, make it available once more.

 

And don't have it regen the land it breaks, it's pointless. 

[Drelik 865]

Big -1 from me friend :(

 

The old PvP system you are reflecting on is the same one where diamond armor would be two hit by gold.

There is no skill whatsoever here!

 

The way I see it this plugin is only making it so people who aren't very good at PvP could be able to win a fight against someone who is, it's just dumbing down PvP further.

 

The mention of armor weight is really what triggered me to respond. How this be a suggestion? The slower you are in minecraft, the more it turns into a fight of luck, it eliminates strafing, juking, comboing, like what the **** m8? Then throwing the percentages in ontop of that just further randomizes ****.

[mmat 7460]

I remember the battles as an Orc in Asulon being sick, even though we were outnumbered in a lot of them. I like almost all of these points to be honest, the idea of archers being useful edges me towards trying to organise volleys of arrows like in 300 and LoTR rather than people just firing one at a time. 

 

As for TNT, I always thought that a Helms Deep style system could be used; three TNT blocks would have to be placed within 1 block of eachother and the presence of 3 TNT blocks together would detonate all three.

 

Axes = Swords was the best thing about combat is asulon, you had to make a choice between crits and block, diamond or gold. And bows actually did stuff in asulon, at 100 archery you were absolutely lethal.

 

Bunker trap bases need to be eliminated though, it's getting ridiculous

[nordicg_d 1847]

-1 

 

Tnt and the use of cannons should be allowed back to counter impenetrable forts (plus they were hella fun to use.). But as for the armour weight and the gold weapons? Naaah, I remember them back in the day and they were horrid! It removes all skill and tactics of vanilla pvp.

[Stag 3233]

I did like the diversity in weapons with that plugin. If tnt is brought back in any variant make it not stack-able.

[Galendar 631]

I wish this plugin could be put back in but the code cleaned up a bit more... I don't think that's the plan though...

[Heff 2460]

have all my plus ones

[Jchizz 115]

For large scale battles, I the vast majority of these changes. PvP can be RP... but, right now, it's simply not.

 

EDIT: I for one, do support the addition of armor weight. You shouldn't be able to keep up with someone in leather while wearing iron or diamond. It's silly.

 

As for gold... I disagree with the super powerful weapons, but how's this for an idea? Give gold armor the armor value of iron, but the speed and maneuverability of leather or something. That would certainly make it useful, but not immensely powerful.

[1 1393]

Yes! Plus 1

[Dyrr 137]

+1 ples

[hellfiazz 879]

Never witnessed battles with proper skills plugins, but it sounds like they were the **** and were really enjoyable. +1

[gg12gg 69]

+1. These suggestions would make wars more fun and greatly improve PVP on the server. They need to be implemented. Is there really anything more to say?