Lockpicking Update

[Aengoth 2890]

Oh no they stole my book. Good thing I still have my stack of iron blocks to buy that book as many times as I could possibly want if I so desired to do such. Only the High Elves and librarians can really be punished by thieves for being careless.

 

However the limitations on rolls is rather smart. Just need to tone it down on the "anyone who wants to steal my iron is evil and pixel hungry must stop".

[kingnothing 571]

i don't think anyones pointed out how illogical it is for there to be a god damn lockpick store

[E__V__O 2000]

i don't think anyones pointed out how illogical it is for there to be a god damn lockpick store

if you read my comment I spoke how clearly it wouldn't fit around the monks and make it a profession.

[Mankaar 166]

if you read my comment I spoke how clearly it wouldn't fit around the monks and make it a profession.

I don't know man the monks appear to really enjoy breaking into places.

 

But I digress, why would monks be promoting thievery it's completely illogical.

[E__V__O 2000]

 

I don't know man the monks appear to really enjoy breaking into places.

 

But I digress, why would monks be promoting thievery it's completely illogical.

 

 

Not like the monks have anything worth stealing...

[Backup Lago 320]

Let the craftbook doors, 10 door vaults and hidden pits commence!

 

Come on GM team. I'd have thought you'd understand your server better than this.

[Hiebe 2493]

GUYS THERE IS A PLUG IN FOR THIS SORTA STUFF. IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME THING BUT YOU DON'T NEED A GM! !!!

seriously there is a fricken bukkit plugin for this sorta thing and I'm pretty sure it's customizable to set random loot % to take

[Cyndikate 2303]

Let the craftbook doors, 10 door vaults and hidden pits commence!

 

Come on GM team. I'd have thought you'd understand your server better than this.

They clearly don't.

Honestly history continues to repeat itself. The way staff has been running LOTC lately it's asulon all over again, which is ridiculous.

[Peanut Butter Jelly 24]

They clearly don't.

Honestly history continues to repeat itself. The way staff has been running LOTC lately it's asulon all over again, which is ridiculous.

Indeed it feels like Asulon, but we don't have a cybering problem!

[christian2142 79]

       Huh.

              Huh.

                     Huh.

 

       There are a lot of thoughts I have on this. So many it might be difficult to document the majority in a half-arsed forums post before I leave for work in the coming half hour. Might as well get started on them, although I haven't really typed up a proper forums post in a while.

 

- clears his throat, and initiates his typical sekc format -

 

      So first thing is first; My feelings are mixed. Surprised? Probably, and probably not, as it appears most people who have replied to this topic are bent on the eradication, or overhaul of this implementation. Meanwhile others outright adore it. Now here is exactly what I have a beef with, and what I find rather charming to the servers aesthetic/what it could mean the implementation of:

 

1. Illogical. Yes this word has been thrown around quite a few times in the past couple pages, and for varying reasons, although there are two key points in which I have thought of myself that would like to readdress:

 

First off; why would the Monks be selling lockpicking equipment in their temple grounds? Unless this is your idea of an adorable event line, where the Monks suddenly transform into assassins who plot to take over the world by providing thieves the tools they need to rid Vailor of all the iron it needs to fight back...

 

Ahem. Run on sentence.

 

Really though. It wouldn't add up, and I highly doubt if we're getting an antagonist that's going to be it. 

 

Second off; why would nation leaders advocate to the Sky Gods for the implementation of a lock-pick emporium in their cities? Not sure if you've noticed, but almost every nation is currently engulfed in some sort of conflict with a minor, or major antagonist of their own.

 

Civil wars, revolutions, ET-related shenanigans, bandit groups... 

 

Some of these nations are so pre-occupied supporting their people, and micro-managing their allies, connections, and lands that the last thing on their mind would be the creation of, -poof- the SKY-PICK EMPORIUM! 

 

No right-minded Nation Leader would actively promote, or allow the creation of a production line featuring top-notch lock-picks forged of Sky Steel, which also apparently include a do-it-yourself guide considering they're so easy that somehow anyone can use them. Don't believe me? Just ask the seven-year-old child who is homeless requesting the help of a GM to help her into that mans RP-item stash while he's offline- I mean err 'travelling'.

 

2. Obsolete. Stealing an RP-item unless it is designed to be used in combat (i.e. renamed sword or diamond armor) would generally not be beneficial to the thieving player, the ET who designated that RP-item, or the player in previous possession of it. Here are a few reasons as to why:

 

First off; Most RP-related items that aren't used in combat have been granted as a part of an ET story-line. Unless easily re-obtainable, which would include items such as a renamed pair of shears to 'surgical scissors', the player in question who takes the item would probably not know what to do with their new possession.

 

Even if they had the slightest indication of what it was linked to IC, the only way they'd be able to actively continue the ET story-line would be if they were addressed OOC what the player before them was obligated to do with it, which would only promote meta-gaming and confusion. 

 

How would you like to see the item you obtained from an event you actively participated in, which you IC had a perfectly designed plot, and progression-line set up for, only to see it vanish from your chest a day later in the hands of someone who knows nothing to do with it, but throw it away or lay it on display somewhere? Not to mention the ET would be at a loss of what could have been a carefully carved out story, which could heavily contribute to the dynamic their events provide to the LotC environment of Vailor.

 

Second off; The obvious "Thieves want precious ferrum, and carbarum (not diamonds as everyone annoyingly calls it)! To Nether with your fancy bowl of ashes!".

 

Let me make a little disclaimer; I don't agree with the ability of a player being able to steal items for profit, or pixel prestige! However I also don't see why we should even have lock-picking in the first place if it's going to be so limited that nobody wants it, or it does little to contribute to RP. Lock-picking would already contribute to RP in the most minimalistic sense besides inducing rage upon a character, his/her OOC player, and halting the progression of a story-line it was involved in. Woo. Not to mention most people would just stalk a players home until they log off for the night, and then call in the Sky Gods to let them conveniently pop in with no fear of retaliation. Bearing that in mind I did however see some very potent suggestions above, and namely promote Jistuma's. 

 

Jistuma's suggestion was to limit what can be stolen from a chest at any given time to ten items. Not ten stacks, but ten items. Some items with a value of two or three points instead of one, so it can balance out any rough edges. Variables to this suggestion are easily adjustable. Why not promote a system like that? It allows a thief to take within reason of what is realistically possible. Bad enough we can already carry what is almost one thousand logs on our backs, as according to MC-mechanics. When playing a decent survival game, or some RPG's you cannot simply loot-goblin an entire twenty stacks of ferrum ingot. Everything has a different size, which only allows for certain combinations of goods to be carried, or in this case stolen.

 

3. Potent. This is going to be my first explanation as to why I support the implementation behind this update. It has potential, but perhaps not in the ways intended. Some points have already been addressed in the previous responses to this topic, but either in a negative connotation, or vaguely. 

 

First off; It can influence the designation, and creation of various new concepts. Banks, which have valuable storage vaults operated by pistons, and cooperate with players seeking active security over their valuables. Trapped storage facilities, where some chests are rigged to trigger a defense mechanism, or where multiple chests are thrown about the place in order to prevent easy designation of an intended target. Possibilities could be very-near limitless, and equally positive to the construction of RP, and the servers appearance to the negative aspects.

 

Think of the storage facility from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. There was an immense amount of goods stored in the warehouse featured by the opening scene. Artifacts, and sometimes useless rubble boxed up by the government. To locate something would either require closely guarded inside knowledge, or as demonstrated by the video a clever mindset. There are surely items or tactics you could properly RP to locate an item, such as throwing aurum nuggets at chests to see if it would interact with a necromantic artifact you are looking for (which could be properly sought out by the GM to test if your actions yield results). Alternatively a player might designate many chests to be full of useless items, which would drive the thief in question down to his loin cloth in terms of how broke he/she becomes if his luck fails him/her.

 

Second off; Stress on the GM team, and interference with their obligations outside of monitoring thievery. 

 

I believe as much as most people that the GM's volunteer for the position, and therefore should be held to their responsibilities to the community without slack. Equally I do believe this update would get heavily used, and the GM's should at least be given time reserved for RP, or their more important roles in keeping the server structured (sorry pixel-power-mongers, but your lock-picking isn't as high a priority in my eyes). If we want to keep the server at a playable level, which some people may believe it is not, then we must instead allocate our time and resources to more important duties than this. Perhaps allowing the ET, which is a much more active and plentiful team operate as the lock-pick overseers, would be a more sound solution, or at least passing the obligation onto more than one team.

 

Third off; The implementation of this update could expand upon already existing markets, or professions, and allow said markets/professions to manufacture lock-picks, and perhaps even improve upon the standard model with more economic, or powerful variants. Give more purpose to the desire for a tinkerer, or the already-highly-regarded blacksmith. 

 

And finally...

 

Fourth off; I believe, although initially suggested as a joke that there should be some level of LA's, or Lock-picking Applications. As stated in a passive-aggressive manner before; the idea that you can simply buy a lockpick, and magically have the proficiency to bust open a door, or chest, would be completely beyond me. Alternatively there should be another type of magic involved in which you can literally cast runes on chests/doors to make them more resistant to attempts, or allow blacksmiths/tinkerers of varying degrees in skill to reinforce their 'locks'.

 

Those are my thoughts, or at least the majority of them, as I'm already running late on my morning schedule.

 

TL;DR

 

You don't get one. Read my post, or don't. No summary is a decent enough explanation. Sorry. </3

 

P.S. Don't take my sarcasm, or passive-aggression seriously. It's not designed to be.

[bungo 3965]

They clearly don't.

Honestly history continues to repeat itself. The way staff has been running LOTC lately it's asulon all over again, which is ridiculous.

implying that's a bad thing?

 

roleplay is centralized in towns.

fast travel allows you to always find roleplay.

world isn't cluttered with **** taverns all along the roads.

 

every last person in this thread is sperging out over nothing.

 

tbh it should be an automatic sign of approval if cyndikate doesn't like something

[Cola one 1 37]

       Huh.

              Huh.

                     Huh.

 

       There are a lot of thoughts I have on this. So many it might be difficult to document the majority in a half-arsed forums post before I leave for work in the coming half hour. Might as well get started on them, although I haven't really typed up a proper forums post in a while.

 

- clears his throat, and initiates his typical sekc format -

 

      So first thing is first; My feelings are mixed. Surprised? Probably, and probably not, as it appears most people who have replied to this topic are bent on the eradication, or overhaul of this implementation. Meanwhile others outright adore it. Now here is exactly what I have a beef with, and what I find rather charming to the servers aesthetic/what it could mean the implementation of:

 

1. Illogical. Yes this word has been thrown around quite a few times in the past couple pages, and for varying reasons, although there are two key points in which I have thought of myself that would like to readdress:

 

First off; why would the Monks be selling lockpicking equipment in their temple grounds? Unless this is your idea of an adorable event line, where the Monks suddenly transform into assassins who plot to take over the world by providing thieves the tools they need to rid Vailor of all the iron it needs to fight back...

 

Ahem. Run on sentence.

 

Really though. It wouldn't add up, and I highly doubt if we're getting an antagonist that's going to be it. 

 

Second off; why would nation leaders advocate to the Sky Gods for the implementation of a lock-pick emporium in their cities? Not sure if you've noticed, but almost every nation is currently engulfed in some sort of conflict with a minor, or major antagonist of their own.

 

Civil wars, revolutions, ET-related shenanigans, bandit groups... 

 

Some of these nations are so pre-occupied supporting their people, and micro-managing their allies, connections, and lands that the last thing on their mind would be the creation of, -poof- the SKY-PICK EMPORIUM! 

 

No right-minded Nation Leader would actively promote, or allow the creation of a production line featuring top-notch lock-picks forged of Sky Steel, which also apparently include a do-it-yourself guide considering they're so easy that somehow anyone can use them. Don't believe me? Just ask the seven-year-old child who is homeless requesting the help of a GM to help her into that mans RP-item stash while he's offline- I mean err 'travelling'.

 

2. Obsolete. Stealing an RP-item unless it is designed to be used in combat (i.e. renamed sword or diamond armor) would generally not be beneficial to the thieving player, the ET who designated that RP-item, or the player in previous possession of it. Here are a few reasons as to why:

 

First off; Most RP-related items that aren't used in combat have been granted as a part of an ET story-line. Unless easily re-obtainable, which would include items such as a renamed pair of shears to 'surgical scissors', the player in question who takes the item would probably not know what to do with their new possession.

 

Even if they had the slightest indication of what it was linked to IC, the only way they'd be able to actively continue the ET story-line would be if they were addressed OOC what the player before them was obligated to do with it, which would only promote meta-gaming and confusion. 

 

How would you like to see the item you obtained from an event you actively participated in, which you IC had a perfectly designed plot, and progression-line set up for, only to see it vanish from your chest a day later in the hands of someone who knows nothing to do with it, but throw it away or lay it on display somewhere? Not to mention the ET would be at a loss of what could have been a carefully carved out story, which could heavily contribute to the dynamic their events provide to the LotC environment of Vailor.

 

Second off; The obvious "Thieves want precious ferrum, and carbarum (not diamonds as everyone annoyingly calls it)! To Nether with your fancy bowl of ashes!".

 

Let me make a little disclaimer; I don't agree with the ability of a player being able to steal items for profit, or pixel prestige! However I also don't see why we should even have lock-picking in the first place if it's going to be so limited that nobody wants it, or it does little to contribute to RP. Lock-picking would already contribute to RP in the most minimalistic sense besides inducing rage upon a character, his/her OOC player, and halting the progression of a story-line it was involved in. Woo. Not to mention most people would just stalk a players home until they log off for the night, and then call in the Sky Gods to let them conveniently pop in with no fear of retaliation. Bearing that in mind I did however see some very potent suggestions above, and namely promote Jistuma's. 

 

Jistuma's suggestion was to limit what can be stolen from a chest at any given time to ten items. Not ten stacks, but ten items. Some items with a value of two or three points instead of one, so it can balance out any rough edges. Variables to this suggestion are easily adjustable. Why not promote a system like that? It allows a thief to take within reason of what is realistically possible. Bad enough we can already carry what is almost one thousand logs on our backs, as according to MC-mechanics. When playing a decent survival game, or some RPG's you cannot simply loot-goblin an entire twenty stacks of ferrum ingot. Everything has a different size, which only allows for certain combinations of goods to be carried, or in this case stolen.

 

3. Potent. This is going to be my first explanation as to why I support the implementation behind this update. It has potential, but perhaps not in the ways intended. Some points have already been addressed in the previous responses to this topic, but either in a negative connotation, or vaguely. 

 

First off; It can influence the designation, and creation of various new concepts. Banks, which have valuable storage vaults operated by pistons, and cooperate with players seeking active security over their valuables. Trapped storage facilities, where some chests are rigged to trigger a defense mechanism, or where multiple chests are thrown about the place in order to prevent easy designation of an intended target. Possibilities could be very-near limitless, and equally positive to the construction of RP, and the servers appearance to the negative aspects.

 

Think of the storage facility from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. There was an immense amount of goods stored in the warehouse featured by the opening scene. Artifacts, and sometimes useless rubble boxed up by the government. To locate something would either require closely guarded inside knowledge, or as demonstrated by the video a clever mindset. There are surely items or tactics you could properly RP to locate an item, such as throwing aurum nuggets at chests to see if it would interact with a necromantic artifact you are looking for (which could be properly sought out by the GM to test if your actions yield results). Alternatively a player might designate many chests to be full of useless items, which would drive the thief in question down to his loin cloth in terms of how broke he/she becomes if his luck fails him/her.

 

Second off; Stress on the GM team, and interference with their obligations outside of monitoring thievery. 

 

I believe as much as most people that the GM's volunteer for the position, and therefore should be held to their responsibilities to the community without slack. Equally I do believe this update would get heavily used, and the GM's should at least be given time reserved for RP, or their more important roles in keeping the server structured (sorry pixel-power-mongers, but your lock-picking isn't as high a priority in my eyes). If we want to keep the server at a playable level, which some people may believe it is not, then we must instead allocate our time and resources to more important duties than this. Perhaps allowing the ET, which is a much more active and plentiful team operate as the lock-pick overseers, would be a more sound solution, or at least passing the obligation onto more than one team.

 

Third off; The implementation of this update could expand upon already existing markets, or professions, and allow said markets/professions to manufacture lock-picks, and perhaps even improve upon the standard model with more economic, or powerful variants. Give more purpose to the desire for a tinkerer, or the already-highly-regarded blacksmith. 

 

And finally...

 

Fourth off; I believe, although initially suggested as a joke that there should be some level of LA's, or Lock-picking Applications. As stated in a passive-aggressive manner before; the idea that you can simply buy a lockpick, and magically have the proficiency to bust open a door, or chest, would be completely beyond me. Alternatively there should be another type of magic involved in which you can literally cast runes on chests/doors to make them more resistant to attempts, or allow blacksmiths/tinkerers of varying degrees in skill to reinforce their 'locks'.

 

Those are my thoughts, or at least the majority of them, as I'm already running late on my morning schedule.

 

TL;DR

 

You don't get one. Read my post, or don't. No summary is a decent enough explanation. Sorry. </3

 

P.S. Don't take my sarcasm, or passive-aggression seriously. It's not designed to be.

 

 

 

I agree with this, especially the bit about a lockpicking app, and I'm a criminal that would use lockpicking if it went along the lines of what you suggest, but could you use an easier to read colour next time? xD

[drfate786 1690]

Needing to know what you're looking for seems a little iffy. 

 

Why can a thief not steal in hope of finding something useful? 

 

Because then people will be breaking into everything.

[christian2142 79]

Because then people will be breaking into everything.

Correction. Even in knowing what you're looking for, there is no way to know which chest out of a hundred will hold it. Therefore it's not preventing you from breaking into everything. It's forcing you to break into everything until you narrow down to that/those item(s).

[Mankaar 166]

implying that's a bad thing?

 

roleplay is centralized in towns.

fast travel allows you to always find roleplay.

world isn't cluttered with **** taverns all along the roads.

 

every last person in this thread is sperging out over nothing.

 

tbh it should be an automatic sign of approval if cyndikate doesn't like something

 

Asulon was a good thing? That's news to me.

 

Cyndi (While obviously "brash" to put it lightly) brings up a good point, it's like this is Asulon 2.0 and its issues are going to return. This staff team has heavily moved backwards in regards to the progress made from Anthos to Athera, it's disheartening to say the least. Many things that did not work before (lockpicking, charter system, glass case mentality, huge world) are being implemented once more and if I remember correctly all of these things were major issues with Asulon. Instead of evolving it's like a massive backwards trek and old problems are just coming back. We'll see how this pans out in the next few months but my guess is that many of these things will be fought over again (Look at this post and the charter post they both have heavy resistance).