[OOC] High Elf Feedback!

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

You should be less strict on enforcing purity.

And live in trees instead of in towers.

And should you be more brown.

And worship the aspects.

[Catostrophy 111]

History shows that these threads are a mistake for us, but...

-Value exile over execution,
-Villainize taxation more,
-Encourage science over tea,
-Encourage magic over tea,
-Encourage anything over tea.
 

[Endovelicus 613]

History shows that these threads are a mistake for us, but...

-Value exile over execution,
-Villainize taxation more,
-Encourage science over tea,
-Encourage magic over tea,
-Encourage anything over tea.
 

All I see is heresy against the tea god...

[AlmondTree 418]

By decree of  Ordo Hereticus and the god emperor I hereby declare thou an heretic.

May imperial justice account in all balance.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Not gonna lie, my biggest issue with them is it seems like Haelun'or is all run by OOC. Not saying it's true or not, but that's how it looks.

[Salamandra 1136]

Needs more of this and less awful tea:

[Stag 3231]

Not gonna lie, my biggest issue with them it it seems like Haelun'or is all run by OOC. Not saying it's true or not, but that's how it looks.

It comes and goes. Though from what I have seen from other leaderships/governments the amount of OOC is less of an issue. Still this is something I can agree with!

- We need helves, not just the leaders, to get up and take charge in terms of creating RP. We don't really need everyone to jump into leadership as we have been managing our leadership semi-well  since Asulon. We need people to YELL into skype chat for people to get on to go on adventures. We need some of our players stepping out of their comfort zone to offer events to our community. 

- I personally need to continue with the making of the cultural island and making the outside of the citadel worthy of exploration.

- We need to do more education. One reason there aren't a lot of pure helves is because LITERALLY EVERYONE but me has contributed to the meme "no one is pure" which may be funny but when a new helf is in chat and they see that they immediately stop trying to RP pure helves and then get kicked out or pushed away when the same leaders/members tell them they are doing it wrong.  We need to make being pure the more interesting choice.

- We need a simple antagonist. Anyone remember the helven antags in Anthos? Vallel anyone? It sparked a lot of intrigue and gave us something to focus on. Where is Vallel? Trying to get into the city again? Who is she disguised as now? I hear Vallel is down in dwarven territory. Send an expedition to find and capture her? The character Vallel may have been one of the biggest community experiments we have ever had. 

[monkeypoacher 8055]

You all have a pretty great build. Props to whoever designed it.

 

 

[Your Favorite Impure 736]

You all have a pretty great build. Props to whoever designed it.

 

 

I have to agree with this. Probably my favorite build on the whole server. 

Personally, I've always loved my interactions with the Helves, even though my character is a filthy impure. I have to agree that it seems nothing changes with the Helven RP. It's stagnant, or at least recycles the same issues over and over. Though, I'll admit it's not that hard to try something new! My character went to the Helves with a map depicting two ruins and I expected a curt "Thank you" and then to be turned away. Instead it turned into an invitation and some very enjoyable RP! Not all helves are stereotypical, snooty supremists. They just act accordingly to whoever is in their presence.*

 

*It helps to be well mannered, helf looking, and intelligent though

[Gnomistry 1115]

Invest in more Scientific Discovery and leave the city from time to time gathering information.

[CosmicWhaleShark 2488]

It seems like you guys have made a good start with the science labs beneath the city. I saw some pretty cool stuff there. For a while it seemed like the issue with the high elves was that they were so obsessed with defending their way of life, that the actual living of that way of life became lost.

 

Where the pursuit of knowledge and the expansion of scientific discoveries took backstage to nonsensical extremism and a laughably easy to undermine superiority complex. This, as best as I can surmise, was because instead of being superior through intelligence, through keen wit and the like... It basically seemed like High Elves were trying to be superior by acting tough. Haelun'or seems to pride itself on its static culture and society, so it'd be best to keep this in mind or be on the look out for that, so you don't stray from the original aspects that makes Haelun'or unique from other cultures. Snootiness and sharp jabs are not even a fraction of the equation in what makes high elves - or what should at least - compelling. That is barely scratching the surface and is just as bad as orcs that only raid and act like absolute morons - ignoring the fact that Krug was in legend the most keen of the descendants and the like. High Elves have never exactly been tough so relying on intimidation is a bit silly too. Push creativity in that regard.

 

Now, that's RP related stuff. I'm not going to bullshit you folks so don't think this is... I dunno, whatever. You guys asked for feedback so I'm going to give you feedback with other stuff, the OOC stuff, that kind of dissuaded me from ever making a high elf whenever I was previously planning my next character to be one.

I know every nation has a degree of OOC coordination within its workings. For the sake of convenience, for the sake of efficiency, whatever else. But it sounds like that hasn't really gone away since the times that I had to deal with it, and from what I can tell you lost a few more loyal players recently speaking, as a result of it. Maybe a few books as well.

This really isn't new behavior and in turn it's really only addressing a few key individuals in the group. But they're a pretty big part of that group in turn. You know who you are, I'm not calling you out, and I'm not looking to fluster you guys or whatever either. But just try to keep in mind what the server's about. Haelun'or can be in its own little bubble sometimes, and a few of you have made damned sure of that, but sustainability and enjoyment are not always part of the same equation. Don't sacrifice the more important one for the sake of the other one.

Feedback is feedback, this is really nothing new from what I've told you guys when you consulted with me a year ago or so. But, oh well, maybe it'll get through this time.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by CosmicWhaleShark

[ski_king3 0]

Cosmic for President.

Edited October 3, 2015 by cyber_king3

[Sporadic 2844]

High Elven feedback has always been a very entertaining but fruitless endeavor. Invariably the brunt of feedback attacks the  foreign policy or with some circumlocution an offshoot thereof (not limited to building an OOC strawman out of IC interactions which is then promptly assaulted with a 'fix your attitude' type fusillade). This argument is as old as Highelvistan itself so leading figures have become effectively deaf to it. Of course, Haelun'or has easily outlived its 'rivals' the Mori and Malinor which entrenched themselves firmly on the left and right side of the Helves on the spectrum of 'outsider friendliness'. This being true, both previous factions serving as a cautionary tale, there's little incentive to change what seems like a winning formula.

 

Still, it serves Haelun'or well to remember that its polemical tendencies have always been in flux, and has had no small amount of catastrophes whenever the balance shifts too far one way or the other. This course-correction always goes hand-in-hand with a lot of OOC drama where the entire server gets to give their 2 cents, and in the end the High Elves have precious little sympathizers. I cannot stress how important it is to avoid these implosions. Nobody wants to join the most hated faction on the server. In the moral rulebook, mindless killing, slavery and genocide are a-okay, as long as you are not racist. High Elves don't need to attract too much attention to the fact they are breaking the aforementioned 'one rule'.

 

Indeed, xenophobia is a chief attractor of the High Elven roleplay. The theory on 'lesser' races follows not far behind. People who impugn the previous statements were generally spared the burdens of IC leadership and naively assume that maximal acceptance equals a maximum of new recruits. This is obviously not true. Adopting this worldview leaves you to compete with the about 30 other 'chill' towns where 'all races are accepted equally :D:D:)))))'. They never last over a month. Thanks Haelun'or for being a stark contrast to what can only be called the most pathetic and sycophantic town leaders this server has to offer. They make me want to gag. 

 

Notwithstanding, High Elven phobia has gradually spiraled out of control in an effort to maintain the 'shock' factor that it was a bit too eager to retain. As server culture shifted towards an environment were genocide became an acceptable plot twist, High Elves would need to step up their game quite severely. Hence, bathing in acid and melting in gold. Obviously this lead to a well-deserved culling after some back-and-forth elf-on-elf genocides. But now, settling back into a more peaceful world, the High Elves are out of touch and clinging to rules of purity that are not actually as eternal they think them to be. They do not have the precedence that is often implied, but are the result of a slew of Nelecar wannabes continuously one-upping each other. "No one is pure", is the creed that gets thrown around Skype chat. And indeed, they aren't. Current standards of purity are utterly unattainable and even in my brief visitations I've seen promising High Elven players being turned away for utterly trivial matters that they could not nor would want to surmount.

 

To tack onto the above: Players should work for purity, but how much will they? Laureh'lin obviously doesn't hold a candle to the pleasures of the Silver City, but at least it's easy to get into. A player not yet invested in silver is only gonna make so much effort, despite the promise of riches behind those walls. Everyone wants to join the VIP squad, but if the bouncer is too much of a **** they'll just slum it with the woodies.

 

Haelun'or used to make more effort to make the induction process more palatable and took special care in psychologically poison dripping its 'not quite' pure recruits into proper silver-respecting citizens. Someone like Mithradites and Eenhoornheid make excellent role models due to the fact that they're hilarious and also, it was easier for a new elf to ease into make snooty tea jokes and being studious bookworms than delve right into beating up some impures. The fun factor of playing a stuck-up pale snob is a big pro of High Elven culture but it can easily be taken too far. Then instead it's an amalgamate of alienating and rather harsh inside jokes.. Kalenz, for example, is a way more acquired taste. Sure he's by far the most famous High Elf but holy **** do you not want to be alone in a room with him. Furthermore, copycats of Kalenz lack the nuance and drive prospective players away. They need a counterweight that is equally stalwart. Refer to Ellir vs Nelecar or some of its later equivalents on how this was generally achieved.

 

Also, the original lore never stated pure Wood and Dark elves were 'lesser'. Elf alliances never worked out but some mildness towards the Ame and Ker were a big crutch to at least have not EVERYONE hate Haelun'or. If I was to offer anything concrete, it would be to reestablish the concept of 'lesser races'. Also visitation permits are great.

 

Finally, the Nazi parallels really didn't help the case as it repulsed anyone that wasn't deeply immersed in LotC culture and survived all the 'epic memeage' that bored veterans (= most of the playerbase) can't help but throw around. I feel like Haelun'or was 2 steps away from dismissing Kha'tigrasi as 'f**king tiggers'. But that's a wider scope issue.

 

Long post so here's Thranduil dropping the beat

Edited October 3, 2015 by Sporadic

[Aengoth 2890]

Never been a fan of acid, seemed oddly placed in both LotC and in such a society. Would imagine the guillotine would've suited them better.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Laureh'lin obviously doesn't hold a candle to the pleasures of the Silver City, but at least it's easy to get into. A player not yet invested in silver is only gonna make so much effort, despite the promise of riches behind those walls. Everyone wants to join the VIP squad, but if the bouncer is too much of a **** they'll just slum it with the woodies.

I don't like laureh'lin being painted as the place high elf rejects go to. Its a far-cry from the super left-wing days of Malinor. We hate elf-on-non-elf breeding and enforce cultural and physical appearance standards much like Haelun'or.

Just like in the plateau war days where everyone was so quick to jump on the LEYULIN IS THE MALINOR EDGY HUB MAKE OF PURGE bandwagon, people can only see in extremes.

Haelun'orians see us as less rigid as them, so obviously we're lawless malinorians.

Those all-inclusive social justice towns like the Caliphate/Aeroch Nor see us as haelun'or-like nazis and lament how much like you guys we've become.

It's actually amusing how in our quest to develop a culture, we've alienated both extremes, leaving us in a sort of limbo area between super rigid xenophobes and super all-inclusive social justice warriors.