Let's Talk; The Magic Plugin & Magic in General

[DISCOLIQUID 2701]

I don't think there would be a way to balance a magic plugin. Something would wind up being wildly more powerful then anything else in magical-mechanics, and everyone would flock to add that under their belt. Magic never needed an MC rep outside of simple stuff: let druids grow flowers where they walk, let shades darken the air around them, let paladins brighten it. You've already given two of those three things with /trail for donators.

[DrakeHaze. 2524]

So the root cause is the magic lore right? Then the answer is 'simple'. We fix the lore. It is not difficult, it simply requires /allot/ of effort and being able to force the change. I've been with the first MAT, learned from them and yea the lore is pretty fkin terrible. Worked with it though, as everyone else had to. Now I run around seemingly as the only magic user around, I don't particularly care about the magic plugin, I think it'd be nice but there has been that which everyone has been promised. That benig the plugin. There are people that really want it, people that don't, what have you. We have yet to even have one to find out if we truly need it and we are met with this barrier that is magic lore. I would personally be okay with a magic plugin that is strictly mechanic, which is for the most part all I thought it'd be useful for.

tl;dr put me in coach, accept me to MAT

[Guest]

That title.....was a bit misleading from the TLDR......Wow....unexpected 

Magic plugin would have been detrimental to PvP, thank you for stopping the project. We lag enough in warclaims. Now imagine fireballs and other things flying around in that mess.

That's a really good point!

I know this sounds a bit stupid but....maybe we should.....  

rewrite the magic lore?

Now before I get spammed with full blown "What are you smoking?" replies, I think that we could try making the lore compatible with a plugin (should the community push for one).....I'm also no MAT, but I've deducted from some other posts/conversations that some aren't happy with the magic, because of XYZ....Doing this could give a fresh start.

Now I'm not fully in support of this idea....

I just wanted to put it on the table.....

Don't hate me for it.

[DISCOLIQUID 2701]

 

 

If you want to re-write magic lore, you're in for a hell of a ride.

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

I still love you 501 No matter what! 

[Tirenas 677]

Sounds good to me. I've never truly been a fan of the magic plugin.

[501warhead 1796]

I don't think there would be a way to balance a magic plugin. Something would wind up being wildly more powerful then anything else in magical-mechanics, and everyone would flock to add that under their belt. Magic never needed an MC rep outside of simple stuff: let druids grow flowers where they walk, let shades darken the air around them, let paladins brighten it. You've already given two of those three things with /trail for donators.

Programmers and Developers work in the realm of impossibilities and improbabilities. LotC is already not vanilla MC. We don't work in Vanilla, we take MC mechanics and adapt them to fit the setting while still maintaining the integrity of MC (Or trying to). I firmly believe that if it was coded from scratch without any acknowledgement of existing lore it would be fully possible to code a reasonable plugin that was both elegant, fun to use, and likely just as "balanced" as MC PvP is on it's own. (which is not really balanced to begin with, to be fair)

 

So the root cause is the magic lore right? Then the answer is 'simple'. We fix the lore. It is not difficult, it simply requires /allot/ of effort and being able to force the change. I've been with the first MAT, learned from them and yea the lore is pretty fkin terrible. Worked with it though, as everyone else had to. Now I run around seemingly as the only magic user around, I don't particularly care about the magic plugin, I think it'd be nice but there has been that which everyone has been promised. That benig the plugin. There are people that really want it, people that don't, what have you. We have yet to even have one to find out if we truly need it and we are met with this barrier that is magic lore. I would personally be okay with a magic plugin that is strictly mechanic, which is for the most part all I thought it'd be useful for.

tl;dr put me in coach, accept me to MAT

But the "strictly mechanic" part you mention is the issue - How is it even possible for me to code such a thing for the current set up? It's... really not.

 

Sounds good to me. I've never truly been a fan of the magic plugin.

you hate plugins in general xd

 

[LaCabra (Soda) 1519]

So we either scrap the lore or don't have a magic plugin. Alrighty.

 

Give a test period where magic can be used in PvP, see how it works in wars and in fights, see how much fun people can have with it. If it's fun, let's boot the lore that's a problem, or at least give it a representation that fits it closely (light magic that hurts people might be represented by fire, stuff like that).

 

If it's not fun in PvP or fights, which is what people will be using it for, then scrap it in general.

[Sky 0]

Everyone already knew that the magic plugin promise wasn't going to get fulfilled, shame really as it was such a long awaited promise as well. Ah well, what can you do about it.

[501warhead 1796]

So we either scrap the lore or don't have a magic plugin. Alrighty.

 

Give a test period where magic can be used in PvP, see how it works in wars and in fights, see how much fun people can have with it. If it's fun, let's boot the lore that's a problem, or at least give it a representation that fits it closely (light magic that hurts people might be represented by fire, stuff like that).

 

If it's not fun in PvP or fights, which is what people will be using it for, then scrap it in general.

 

I guess I did give that feeling of "do or die". If I don't feel something is worth putting on LotC I don't continue development on it, so the plugin isn't functional to let players test. And coding a new one from scratch without any promise of it ever going on LotC...? Probably not the greatest idea ever.

 

Everyone already knew that the magic plugin promise wasn't going to get fulfilled, shame really as it was such a long awaited promise as well. Ah well, what can you do about it.

Yes, it was common knowledge. It's just never been verbally spoken.

[_mkkk_ 194]

Honestly, the magic plugin would just turn LOTC into a pvp server.

It is true that this would complicate things. . . a whole lump some of reforms in magic lore and the integration/coordination of this new system efficiently seems like a lot. The real issues behind this is the mechanics involved with magics in the face of PvP. Everyone seems like the issue is that "Hey, why can't we mages actually have the upper hand in these situations when it would be in our advantage?" when in reality the real issue is "Why aren't the PvP rules of a roleplay server guarding roleplay?" 

What I am suggesting is reforming the rules concerning PvP. I am sorry to any passionate, mouse slamming people who absolutely love PvP but this is a roleplay server. This isn't made for running up to people, emoting two times, and then suggesting PvP when it's not in your favor which seems to be the case quite often. PvP is ultimately proper in war claims and skirmishes but outside of that, it isn't. Focusing on that issue would resolve this one as well.

[River 555]

then just tries to probably unsuccessfully avoid x shade and then decides "this is bullshit" and bails, and the other player that wishes to be a shade doesn't get the lore and the current shade base rips him apart and he says "screw this".

-- 501warhead, Lead Developer

Isn't that how people view pvp'ers anyways?

 

Besides that trolly remark, I think that the subtypes should be released if they fit with lore. Taking the most common magics and implementing a magic onto the server, and allowing people who know those magics to use them.

 

You cannot go wrong if, for fire evocation all you have is fire spells and some utility spells, and you implement that onto the server. There's almost no reason to. For other magics, if the spells and mechanics you have fit with the current lore, why note implement them?

 

The server hasn't had a magic plugin for the masses ever, and at the very least LotC can gain experience from knowing how the playerbase feels about magic, from feeling it first hand.

 

I know it might be unfair to some players who wouldn't have their MC magic (assuming the magics you did have, that fit with lore was implemented) but at the very least the promise for future updates on the magic plugin exists, and for guild locked magics, well they can just be done last unless they're easy to do, already done and fit with the lore.

[River 555]

Also, does every magic on the server even have to have a magic plugin? There are already a lot, of common magics that can be done, and are most likely already, done, that can be implemented on the server without rewriting server lore. 

Does it really have to be an all or nothing situation? Can we not, at least test the magic plugin, see how it interacts with the playerbase, let it sink in a little before completely dismissing it before it's even given a chance? Sure the magic lore is a mess and there are  a number of complexities and lore ignored by one magic to another, but that doesn't take away from the other, numerous magics that fall in pretty well with lore, that could be used by the playerbase.

[Demotheus 651]

This is heartbreaking. Please no.

All I wanted from the magic plugin was something to work with. Mages invest in study and books, not armor and swords. I wanted to look like a mage when I had to resort to pvp. Or at least not like a shining knight in armor. That's all. I wanted to be effective enough with the plugin wherein you could still be successful in pvp but don't have (and maybe can't) wear armor.

Or something.

All that's TRULY needed is the basic magics. You don't need to actually code in every magic from fire balls to beardmancy. You just need to be able to do what they do.

Offensive, defensive, supportive, hybrid, summoner, AOE, Single target, etc.  etc. Not every sub genre of magic, just separate it into what it's going to be for. And then reskin the spells. They don't need to be different. Maybe you've already considered this. In fact it's probably been considered many times.

Fire: Smack with a fireball, knock back, etc.

Water: Smack with water, stab with ice.

Necromancy: Summon mobs of some kind. Life steal. Etc.

Shade: reskin an ice bolt to be black or something. I once saw someone turn themself into a shade monster some time ago. So maybe incorperate an armor buff or something.

These are just some examples I could go on but i'm too lazy.

[Ventusyr 233]

As someone who has done a TON of cleric magic roleplay and was introduced to magic through voidal magic... The main issue is that magic simply isn't magical and there's just so much lore and the way magic works is, if I put it bluntly, bland and uncreative. I criticize my own magic here too, cleric magic. I strongly dislike how complicated it is and how... Sciency, it is, I think it says something when you have written a forty-odd page document that still doesn't clearly explain the guide enough to stop confusion about the magic. I dislike how all magic is focus-based, basically becoming a glorified hybrid of a wordless Eragon-esque magic and bending from Avatar: The Last Airbender. You get glowy stuff after focusing on a concept or desired result to happen and bam, done. It just isn't... Magical.

 

I've been thinking, recently, about what could change. I honestly think a component-based magic system would be neat, more like alchemy or Color-of-Magic magic than our current system. Throw in an eye of newt and some flametongue root and some gold powder or something on a scroll covered in runes, cover it in the smoke of pine needles, recite a few magic words, and then bam, you have a fire ball spell that is activated by shouting a word or phrase and consumes the components on use. MAs could be disbanded because its recipe based, if you know a recipe you can make the spell. You could do anything with the components: necromancy, healing, growth of trees, summoning of fire balls, et cetera. It isn't just focusing for three emotes until you shoot a fireball, there's work and a story behind each spell, and it actually seems magical.

 

I dunno. I'll post a proper post detailing the idea somewhere else. As far as a magic plugin goes, giving people with MAs the ability to make glowy sparks or something would be all we need, a neat mechanic representation of the text roleplay. It was never going to work in PvP, and I'm glad it is no longer being pursued.