[5.0] Development Update | 1.10 Update & Transition Info

[Bvie 1754]

2 minutes ago, zaezae said:

Oh puh-leese. Letting people have exactly one, count'em, one skill that they can be helpful with isn't totally going to ruin your egotistical quest to the top of the compost bin pile. It's nothing to what grinders can produce in a week, but it's everything to people who have to think about rather or not they can even log on tonight. Like, oh no, some people that don't even play mechanical side will get to *gasp* make a small set of items every once in a while! B-but they di-didn't earn it! Th-they were roleplaying, or working jobs! Wh-who do they think they are getting a single bump in a single profession that is utterly meaningless to my utlimga grind super fest!

 

But no seriously. I support a grind-wall that excludes a portion of players out of certain aspects of the game. That is totally fair. 

You obviously didn't read the entire post.

[zaezae 1098]

11 minutes ago, SquirtGun said:

You obviously didn't read the entire post.

I obviously did, and I disagree with whatever it is you are trying to say. I mean really, what is wrong with a boost to a single skill? Please tell me. Is it because you feel like people don't deserve a chance to take part in a single skill? I mean, you enjoy striving for being better in skills, tell me how a single boost that everyone gets hinders that? Even if you move the starting line forward everyone still has a fair chance, everybody still has to grind to be the very best at that one skill that got boosted and doubly so for all the other skills. So that isn't a legitimate reason. 

 

I mean, you know, I would like to be decent at tinkerer. But I don't have the time and what time I do have I want to RP. So basically, I'm not going to be a tinkerer. I'm going to RP trying to be one, trying. But somehow, somehow because you enjoy grinding, that won't mean **** because I don't have enough special numbers behind "tinkerer". And somehow, SOMEHOW, grinding is considered better than RP learning.

 

So what is the reason you don't like the boost? I read over your entire post twice now and almost the entirity of it is advocating for skills to stay and nothing about why the boost is hitler. 

 

Also, no, players aren't idiots. They know that their items won't be worth ****, literal objects to be thrown into a fire until they have put in enough hours not roleplaying.

[Elvrohir Aureon 210]

7 minutes ago, zaezae said:

 

I mean, you know, I would like to be decent at tinkerer. But I don't have the time and what time I do have I want to RP. So basically, I'm not going to be a tinkerer.

Wahhh I want my participation ribbon waaahhhhhhhhhh

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Elvrohir Aureon said:

Wahhh I want my participation ribbon waaahhhhhhhhhh

I enjoy participating in roleplay. It's quite fun, you ought to try it. But, you gotta get more xp right?

[Seliyne 196]

@zaezae arguing from emotion makes it really difficult for people to argue back at you, and making this argument into an "us vs. them" is even worse.

 

The point is that this solves nothing with the problems the system has. People will be back to their old ranks in a month or so and new players will still be SOL when they join the server since veteran grinders have a stranglehold over the entire economy. The wipe penalizes people who do grind, the boost penalizes new players who miss the cut-off point for the boost... and it basically makes new players even more behind than they used to be, since every player from 4.0 has a masterful skill and can be useful, even people who never touched nexus to begin with (who can just assign Adequate in every skill and essentially play vanilla MC).

 

The point is... it doesn't fix anything, it just spits on everyone whilst flagrantly not addressing the huge issues of nexus. 

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Tarian said:

@zaezae arguing from emotion makes it really difficult for people to argue back at you.

 

The point is that this solves nothing with the problems the system has. People will be back to their old ranks in a month or so and new players will still be SOL when they join the server since veteran grinders have a stranglehold over the entire economy. The wipe penalizes people who do grind, the boost penalizes new players who miss the cut-off point for the boost... and it basically makes new players even more behind than they used to be, since every player from 4.0 has a masterful skill and can be useful, even people who never touched nexus to begin with (who can just assign Adequate in every skill and essentially play vanilla MC).

 

The point is... it doesn't fix anything, it just spits on everyone whilst flagrantly not addressing the huge issues of nexus. 

 

Actually, every single paragraph had a specific point.

Paragraph 1: There was no real argument against a boost.

 

Paragraph 2: People who do not have all day to waste on LOTC may be effectively locked out of big parts of the server if they choose to RP. The boost would allow those players to have at least one thing they can do while everyone else can still grind to have everything.

 

paragraph 3: I pointed out that there isn't a consistent message, are we talking about a boost or the skills wipe?

 

paragraph 4: While I didn't say this explicitly, unlike in real life, there is no such thing as "bad", "Okay", and "Great" gear. There is only "Good", "bad", "Why are you even here?" gear. You are at a disadvantage by not having top tier gear, and so anybody who cannot produce this level of gear is producing something worthless. Why have something if your chances of wining are not improved. 

 

So my point is, while the skill wipe is rather 'eh' and I do not understand the point of it, there is something helpful with the boost. It allows players who do not have as much time to at least play a tiny little role, even if their gear isn't worth much. You know, they get to roleplay on this here roleplaying server. I mean there was a much better economy before professions, I actually saw people roleplaying their crafts, etc. etc. So you're right, it doesn't solve the problem that professions exist, but at least it puts a single door on the grind wall. I just do not understand people wanting to defend an unfun mechanic that objectively distracts players from RP.

 

Different tone, exactly the same content. 

[Dtrik 330]

I just want non pocket gms to rename my items if I spend an hour and a half roleplaying making the thing. (Check the text logggssssssssss)

[Bvie 1754]

31 minutes ago, zaezae said:

 

So what is the reason you don't like the boost? I read over your entire post twice now and almost the entirity of it is advocating for skills to stay and nothing about why the boost is hitler. 

The majority of the post was why I am against the boost. I even stated that while the wipe is annoying, it wasn't my concern.

I even said if there /had/ to be a boost, what would be a better alternative.

I gave numerous reasons as to why it would be a better alternative.

 

Your dreams of being a "decent" tinker are not hindered by a boost at the level I suggested. Its what you consider being 'decent' VS what is actually 'decent' that is the issue.

 

Being 'Fair' or 'Adequate' is considered decent in the world. It's often used in tangent when discussing someone decent at something.

 

'Masterful' is not 'decent'. 

 

Once again, I'm a strong advocate for lowering down all the basic things you'd ever need to make in skills to these lower levels, where leaving the higher levels for showboating and the such. Being negative and condescending doesn't solve anything.

[Moochael 730]

The chat clearings make me want to die.

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, SquirtGun said:

The majority of the post was why I am against the boost. I even stated that while the wipe is annoying, it wasn't my concern.

I even said if there /had/ to be a boost, what would be a better alternative.

I gave numerous reasons as to why it would be a better alternative.

 

Your dreams of being a "decent" tinker are not hindered by a boost at the level I suggested. Its what you consider being 'decent' VS what is actually 'decent' that is the issue.

 

Being 'Fair' or 'Adequate' is considered decent in the world. It's often used in tangent when discussing someone decent at something.

 

'Masterful' is not 'decent'. 

 

Once again, I'm a strong advocate for lowering down all the basic things you'd ever need to make in skills to these lower levels, where leaving the higher levels for showboating and the such. Being negative and condescending doesn't solve anything.

 

The names for levels of experience are arbitrary and are not reflective of what is 'masterful' IG. If we changed the name of that milestone to 'decent' it would still reflect the same exact quality of items you could produce. 

[Bvie 1754]

Just now, zaezae said:

The names for levels of experience are arbitrary and are not reflective of what is 'masterful' IG. If we changed the name of that milestone to 'decent' it would still reflect the same exact quality of items you could produce. 

That wasn't even the point...... I'm done trying with you.

[Vamoose 265]

The Grind

In order to compensate for skill resets and get everyone off to an easy start, we will be awarding150,000 experience to every persona that you may distribute anywhere you please. This is enough to have one masterful skill, or two veteran skills.

 

Please don't compensate something that does not require compensation what so ever. No need to get anyone off to an easy start. Making anything easy takes the fun out of it. Historically, none of the top grinders started off with a boost similar to the one being proposed, yet in time, through significant efforts, made their way to the top list. I understand that there are children on here who wish to be duel wielding knights adorned with paraphernalia that own twenty five fiefs with a skill set of ten aengulic professions, but the world is a more boring place once you have everything in the world. Without some adversity or challenge along the way, there is no reward, and let's not forget that there are no materialistic rewards WHATSOEVER here, so please for the sake of those who actually enjoy the grind, let us start from 0. Thanks.

 

Any development, whether roleplay, character based, or even the grind, requires some challenge. The lack of such is like asking a mechanical engineer to solve fifth grade algebra when they can solve fourth order differential equations by hand. It's boring, utterly boring and induces aversion. If you don't enjoy it, you try to avoid it. Please do not compensate!

[argonian 14254]

Just now, Vamoose said:

The Grind

In order to compensate for skill resets and get everyone off to an easy start, we will be awarding150,000 experience to every persona that you may distribute anywhere you please. This is enough to have one masterful skill, or two veteran skills.

 

Please don't compensate something that does not require compensation what so ever. No need to get anyone off to an easy start. Making anything easy takes the fun out of it. Historically, none of the top grinders started off with a boost similar to the one being proposed, yet in time, through significant efforts, made their way to the top list. I understand that there are children on here who wish to be duel wielding knights adorned with paraphernalia that own twenty five fiefs with a skill set of ten aengulic professions, but the world is a more boring place once you have everything in the world. Without some adversity or challenge along the way, there is no reward, and let's not forget that there are no materialistic rewards WHATSOEVER here, so please for the sake of those who actually enjoy the grind, let us start from 0. Thanks.

 

Any development, whether roleplay, character based, or even the grind, requires some challenge. The lack of such is like asking a mechanical engineer to solve fifth grade algebra when they can solve fourth order differential equations by hand. It's boring, utterly boring and induces aversion. If you don't enjoy it, you try to avoid it. Please do not compensate!

If you enjoy the grind, make a new persona. Don't force everyone else to grind for weeks and months back up to where they were because of an arbitrary decision to make their characters forget years of training.

[zaezae 1098]

Remove the very concept that having grinded levels means your character is good or bad at something and I really won't care then. Tired of "I want to put this glass between these two pieces of wood." "you might want to grind tinkering so you'll get taken seriously". Just wish we could get back to when things were simpler, WCs were fun, pvp was fun, people roleplayed to the point that people were complaining that there was TOO MUCH roleplay in certain areas. 

[Dragonslayerelf 654]

When will ./vault start working?