[Your View] Villain Application: 'Rehab'

[LeoRabbit99 360]

Villain and villain blacklisting is silly. What warrants you to be blacklisted? It boils down to metagaming, powergaming, or partaking in a 'minas or die' banditry according to https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/162039-villain-blacklist-information/#comment-1530912. As for the first two reasons, I'm not sure why we need another way to enforce them when it's already ban worthy. As for the other, we shouldn't be forcing people to not rp a certain way. It makes complete rp sense, so why not? Because you say it's wrong and therefore everyone has to rp the way you want them to? I agree that it's poor rp, however that shouldn't give me a right to stop it. Same thing goes for a villain app, it's just another way of forcing people to rp the way they want them to. I say let them rp what they want, usually people who rp poorly like that will die anyway. Besides, the people who you're trying to prevent from committing villainy are going to fill an app and be accepted, easily, so most of this is pointless. Let people play their characters the way they want and stop putting so many restrictions.

 

[Sky 0]

3 minutes ago, LeoRabbit99 said:

Villain and villain blacklisting is silly. What warrants you to be blacklisted? It boils down to metagaming, powergaming, or partaking in a 'minas or die' banditry according to https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/162039-villain-blacklist-information/#comment-1530912. As for the first two reasons, I'm not sure why we need another way to enforce them when it's already ban worthy. As for the other, we shouldn't be forcing people to not rp the way they want to. It makes complete rp sense, so why not? Because you say it's wrong and therefore everyone has to rp the way you want them to? I agree, it's poor rp in my opinion, however that shouldn't give me a right to stop it, just because I dislike their rp. Same thing goes for a villain app, it's just another way to force people to rp the way they want them to. I say let them rp what they want, usually people who rp poorly like that will die anyway. Besides, the people who you're trying to prevent from committing villainy are going to fill an app and be accepted, easily, so most of this is pointless. Let people play their characters the way they want and stop putting so many restrictions.

 

 

Blacklisting doesn't boil down to just those three, giving subpar villain roleplay which is just violence for the simple sake of violence, as well as just coming around and being both a general nuisance, and ruining other's enjoyment on the server, can constitute in some cases (it's a case by case thing). As for it being banworthy, sometime's it's on the line and a ban would be far too serious, where a small ban just seems worthless, thus a blacklist can be given, again depending on the case. This is aimed for repeat offenders, and if a player just constantly ruins people's days, and breaks rules, then they clearly cannot play a villain, end of story. This application is simply for repeat offenders, and if they make an app, they understand how many chances they have had and if they continue, then they will be banned. It's not pointless, unless you can cite me examples of it failing? Because it's yet to be put through. People are strangely scared to try things out, there's legitamitely zero harm in trying the system out, as it isn't something you should even worry about coming across (unless of course you know that you give **** tier villainy roleplay and you know you will continue to do so).

[mmat 7460]

I'm actually not too fussed about this. Just don't creep this into anywhere else.

[blago 1602]

Decent. 

[ibraheemc2000 2965]

+1 good idea

[LeoRabbit99 360]

33 minutes ago, Sky said:

Blacklisting doesn't boil down to just those three, giving subpar villain roleplay which is just violence for the simple sake of violence, as well as just coming around and being both a general nuisance, and ruining other's enjoyment on the server, can constitute in some cases (it's a case by case thing). As for it being banworthy, sometime's it's on the line and a ban would be far too serious, where a small ban just seems worthless, thus a blacklist can be given, again depending on the case. This is aimed for repeat offenders, and if a player just constantly ruins people's days, and breaks rules, then they clearly cannot play a villain, end of story. This application is simply for repeat offenders, and if they make an app, they understand how many chances they have had and if they continue, then they will be banned. It's not pointless, unless you can cite me examples of it failing? Because it's yet to be put through. People are strangely scared to try things out, there's legitamitely zero harm in trying the system out, as it isn't something you should even worry about coming across (unless of course you know that you give **** tier villainy roleplay and you know you will continue to do so).

Ruins the the experience for whom? That's relative. If you ask the robber, he'll say he enjoyed the rp. Also I could easily make that same argument for other things. When I was new to the server, I felt when I tried to engage in rp with others I was an outcast. Anything I tried to get involved in I was immediately shut out and was always ignored, which is arguably an issue that has ruined quite a lot of people's rp. Does that mean we should force people to converse? Of course not, because you have to deal with **** sometimes when you're on the server. I'm of the opinion to let players, including myself, deal with it. Believe me, I've had my fair share of frustrating bandit rp where I've lost my set of armor and the potions that fill my inventory. If people don't like it, they should either stay within the city walls, travel with multiple people or learn to defend themselves. Perhaps train in magic, or maybe get some gear and better your pvp skills, whatever you prefer. Sometimes however, there's nothing you can do and you die. stop complaining about everything.

As for your other point, why are moderate offences of powergame/metagame punishments exclusively handed out to villains than? What about someone else who's not being a villain and metas but is on that fine line, does he get a penalty? If that's what you're looking for, than perhaps create a system for that, but don't subjectify it to only villains.

[Sky 0]

1 minute ago, LeoRabbit99 said:

Ruins the the experience for whom? That's relative. If you ask the robber, he'll say he enjoyed the rp. Also I could easily make that same argument for other things. When I was new to the server, I felt when I tried to engage in rp with others I was an outcast. Anything I tried to get involved in I was immediately shut out and was always ignored, which is arguably an issue that has ruined quite a lot of people's rp. Does that mean we should force people to converse? Of course not, because you have to deal with **** sometimes when you're on the server. I'm of the opinion to let players, including myself, deal with it. Believe me, I've had my fair share of frustrating bandit rp where I've lost my set of armor and the potions that fill my inventory. If people don't like it, they should learn to either stay within the city walls, travel with multiple people or learn to defend themselves. Perhaps train in magic, or maybe get some gear and better your pvp skills, whatever you prefer. Sometimes however, there's nothing you can do and you die. stop complaining about everything.

As for your other point, why are moderate offences of powergame/metagame punishments exclusively handed out to villains than? What about someone else who's not being a villain and metas but is on that fine line, does he get a penalty? If that's what you're looking for, than perhaps create a system for that, but don't subjectify it to only villains.

 

You seem to either be missing the point, or setting up a false narritive. When poor villainy is talked about, or when experience is ruined, there is a massive difference between someone losing their stuff and being upset, to someone who is being treated to minimal **** just to cause trouble. If you die from genuine villainy, then yes that's on you to get over it, but if you die from something that was littered with half-assed emotes, crappy reasoning and just plain salt, then no that's not on the player recieving it to simply 'get over it'. Also, I never once said that powergaming and metagaming punishments are exclusively for villains, so you're simply talking hot air there, everyone can powergame and metagame, and it's not on the staff's head if you witness it and refuse to deal with it.

 

You are finding faults in the system, that plainly don't exist. If a player metagames, then report it. If a player powergames, then report it. However, if they do it in the name of 'providing villainy' and are clearly doing it to cause problems, then blacklists will come in. Blacklists already exist, as do bans. What this system is in place for, is those who have had multiple blacklists or a substantial amount of ban, clearly has not learned and thus is no longer trusted to perform villainy, needing the application to continue.

 

This is subjected to literally everyone who wishes to perform villainous activities. Want to partake in villainy? Then do it. This literally only affects repeat offenders of constantly giving ****-tier villainy.

[ThePope425 33]

We should not need to roleplay before stealing from anyone, you should be able to run up to someone and actually kill them. This is roleplay or not ? 

 

Lotc is a fire and this is more wood

[_Elrith_ 4525]

This is good, so far. I am either confused, miss read something, blind, or it just plainly wasn't there. When it's asking about your villainy blacklists will it be taking in blacklists from the past or future? What I mean is, is it similar to the law that you can't be tried for breaking a law if you did it in the past before that law was implemented?

[Sky 0]

Just now, ElrithSearith said:

This is good, so far. I am either confused, miss read something, blind, or it just plainly wasn't there. When it's asking about your villainy blacklists will it be taking in blacklists from the past or future? What I mean is, is it similar to the law that you can't be tried for breaking a law if you did it in the past before that law was implemented?

 

 

It's not been discussed fully and that is something I will be speaking with the team about numbers, however it's more so just there as to allow us to know if the player has a past with poor villainy.

[_Elrith_ 4525]

Just now, Sky said:

t's not been discussed fully and that is something I will be speaking with the team about numbers, however it's more so just there as to allow us to know if the player has a past with poor villainy

So will all players who want to do villainy have to make a villainy application? If so then I understand why you ask for any past blacklists, but if you aren't doing that then why ask for past blacklists. Shouldn't you just blacklist a person who has done poor villainy then just make them go through the application format? 

[Sky 0]

23 minutes ago, ElrithSearith said:

So will all players who want to do villainy have to make a villainy application? If so then I understand why you ask for any past blacklists, but if you aren't doing that then why ask for past blacklists. Shouldn't you just blacklist a person who has done poor villainy then just make them go through the application format? 

 

 

No, it's stated in the original post several times, that this only affects repeat offenders who do not learn from their multiple blacklists, or ban.

[_Elrith_ 4525]

Just now, Sky said:

No,

Should have said I'm blind.

[Eurielle 1189]

This is good, but consider adding a time in which a strike will expire. Not a 3 month or anything like that, I mean a really harsh and brutal time like a year, year and a half, something that is really only exists so a vet player can't accidentally get themselves blacklisted two years down the line after missing morning coffee. 

[Hobbs_Burrows 497]

How many people are actually 'repeat offenders'? What will this actually do in terms of numbers? People should be worried that it simply opens the door to more extensive villain applications after we finally got rid of them 4 years ago.

 

My first impression from this is that Sky really wants to bring villain applications back, but wants to find a way that won't get much resistance at first. 

 

It's a bad idea, it puts villains on a pedestal where it's one rule for them and one for others. Where if Sky and a team of skype gods decides their roleplay is 'not good enough' they have to go through a special tribunal of applications.

 

We realised 4 years ago that applications had no effect on the quality of roleplay. So why make 'bad' villains go through it? It won't make them any better, it's just a waste of time for the person writing it and a waste of time for the people reading it. Until you can demonstrate that this would make anyone any better on the server then this remains a bad idea.

 

Also listen to LeoRabbit99, he clearly know what he is talking about.