[Your View] Villain Application: 'Rehab'

[Sky 0]

57 minutes ago, Fyrste said:

How many people are actually 'repeat offenders'? What will this actually do in terms of numbers? People should be worried that it simply opens the door to more extensive villain applications after we finally got rid of them 4 years ago.

 

My first impression from this is that Sky really wants to bring villain applications back, but wants to find a way that won't get much resistance at first. 

 

It's a bad idea, it puts villains on a pedestal where it's one rule for them and one for others. Where if Sky and a team of skype gods decides their roleplay is 'not good enough' they have to go through a special tribunal of applications.

 

We realised 4 years ago that applications had no effect on the quality of roleplay. So why make 'bad' villains go through it? It won't make them any better, it's just a waste of time for the person writing it and a waste of time for the people reading it. Until you can demonstrate that this would make anyone any better on the server then this remains a bad idea.

 

Also listen to LeoRabbit99, he clearly know what he is talking about.

 

You're making quite big accusations here. This doesn't open the door to more extensive villain applications, as the entire team doesn't want them back and that includes myself, I hate the way villain applications were and you're trying to say that I am trying to weasel them back in? Couldn't be further from the truth. As for this putting them on a pedestal, no it doesn't, this is a punishment system for repeat offenders and that's that, as for myself and team of skype gods deciding what roleplay is good enough? That's not true either, the part which asks for their reasoning, is simply to see that there is one and it's not just 'ecksdee i am a bad boy lol' tier ****. No applications do not affect the quality of roleplay and this isn't to make them better, it's to drill into their head that they need to improve on their own, no application will make anyone better on their own.

 

Lets calm down on the accusations against me, you've been gone quite a while and frankly don't know me, I was part of the team that pushed villain applications out the window and stand firmly against the way they were, what this is, is a proposal system that was raised to us and seemed to resinate well, labeling it mine is quite false.

[sneLf 314]

snip

[Pieman 1134]

[Sky 0]

1 minute ago, Hero_ said:

I mean yeah these are good rules but villainy is slowly being dismantled with people not being allowed to loot from unlocked chests because some idiot forgot to lock their chests. Let the bandit and villain playerbase be able to loot unlocked chests and this will be a fine addition. Otherwise, members of the staff will just add more rules constricting those groups and more of them will want to leave. 

???

[Sky 0]

Just now, Hero_ said:

Why didn't I hear of this??????????????

 

It's actually been a thing since the whole 'cannot lockpick locked chests' were a thing, but not sure.

[argonian 14254]

5 minutes ago, Sky said:

It's actually been a thing since the whole 'cannot lockpick locked chests' were a thing, but not sure.

it was gone for a while before yesterday

[Hobbs_Burrows 497]

1 hour ago, Sky said:

 

You're making quite big accusations here. This doesn't open the door to more extensive villain applications, as the entire team doesn't want them back and that includes myself, I hate the way villain applications were and you're trying to say that I am trying to weasel them back in? Couldn't be further from the truth. As for this putting them on a pedestal, no it doesn't, this is a punishment system for repeat offenders and that's that, as for myself and team of skype gods deciding what roleplay is good enough? That's not true either, the part which asks for their reasoning, is simply to see that there is one and it's not just 'ecksdee i am a bad boy lol' tier ****. No applications do not affect the quality of roleplay and this isn't to make them better, it's to drill into their head that they need to improve on their own, no application will make anyone better on their own.

 

Lets calm down on the accusations against me, you've been gone quite a while and frankly don't know me, I was part of the team that pushed villain applications out the window and stand firmly against the way they were, what this is, is a proposal system that was raised to us and seemed to resinate well, labeling it mine is quite false.

 

Since you didn't answer my question I've done your research for you. Under this proposed system, do you know how many people would be writing villain applications in the 2 years the blacklist has existed?

 

Zero. Zilch. Nil.

 

So what is the point? Are we going to go looking for bad roleplayers to actively punish them? Are the standards going to be artificially raised in order to catch people out and force them into writing a pointless application?

 

I've covered this same ground time and time again. A useless roleplayer can write the best villain application you have ever seen. So the entire system is useless. This is just punishment for the sake of punishment for a problem that does not exist and has not existed on this server for 6 years.

 

If a someone is so bad and is breaking rules enough to get blacklisted several times in a short frame then they can be told off with the rules you already have in place. 'Villain application' should not even be words in our vocabulary.

[Sky 0]

2 minutes ago, Fyrste said:

 

Since you didn't answer my question I've done your research for you. Do you know how many people would be writing villain applications in the 2 systems the blacklist has existed?

 

Zero. Zilch. Nil.

 

So what is the point? Are we going to go looking for bad roleplayers to actively punish them? Are the standards going to be artificially raised in order to catch people out and force them into writing a pointless application?

 

I've covered this same ground time and time again. A useless roleplayer can write the best villain application you have ever seen. So the entire system is useless. This is just punishment for the sake of punishment. 

 

If a someone is so bad and is breaking rules enough to get blacklisted several times in a short frame then they can be told off with the rules you already have in place. 'Villain application' should not even be words in our vocabulary.

 

I didn't answer the question because I assumed it some rhetoric, and within a minute of simple research (through the blacklists and server bans) with a refined search I could (not going to) name you four people who would immediately get one, if they messed up again. What's the point? I've said it multiple times, as have others, it's a punishment as well as a deterant for people who purposefully give **** tier villain roleplay. No one is actively going around and watching people, standards aren't even that high in the first place honestly. While a useless roleplayer can write a villain application, it's again assuming that the application itself is the thing that makes the player understand, whereas it's not and I've explained that before. You say they should be told off with the rules, and this is literally that, their punishment for constantly ignoring blacklists or bans. It's clear you are adoment about this system not existing, very well that's your opinion, however from the looks of it (from the short amount of comments thus far) it seems that people are wanting to see it in practice, rather than deminishing it without giving it a chance, and if it ends up going through cool, we can see if it fails or works. If the community doesn't like it afterall, or if the higherups don't want this, I'm not going to kick and scream. In the end, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Hobbs_Burrows 497]

Then what you propose is another useless punishment and hoop to make players jump through so it can be ticked it off as a successful 'GM project'. Instead it should be dumped on the scrap heap for the obvious reasons stated above.

[Sky 0]

1 minute ago, Fyrste said:

Then what you propose is another useless punishment and hoop to make players jump through so it can be ticked it off as a successful 'GM project'. Instead it should be dumped on the scrap heap for the obvious reasons stated above.

 

 

If the community doesn't want it, it wont be implimented. Simple. If it was just to be ticked off as a 'successful GM project' wouldn't I just submit it privately to the administration and skip the whole community's input? You've got dislikes for villain applications, I understand that, and you do not believe this is needed, I value your opinion. At the end of the day, if it gets implimented or not is purely upon the communities input. Not on my own opinion.

[Hobbs_Burrows 497]

Villain applications should not return in any form at all on the server. Take this from someone who was judging applications from their very beginning, who wrote many areas of the application itself, and finally got rid of them many years ago.

 

They do not work and never have worked. To implement them in some half-baked I-just-want-them-to-punish-bad-roleplayers scenario is even worse than full blown villain applications. Holding threat on top of threat above peoples heads will only alienate the players on this server even more. The current system is completely satisfactory.

[MinionManXDD 503]

Would a villain blacklist from breaking a 'raid rule' count as an offence?

 

Shouldn't there also be some sort of guard/anime hero application after a certain number of poor guarding rp as well?

[zaezae 1098]

Am I wrong in seeing this as just an appeal with extra fields?

[LeoRabbit99 360]

6 hours ago, Sky said:

You seem to either be missing the point, or setting up a false narritive. When poor villainy is talked about, or when experience is ruined, there is a massive difference between someone losing their stuff and being upset, to someone who is being treated to minimal **** just to cause trouble. If you die from genuine villainy, then yes that's on you to get over it, but if you die from something that was littered with half-assed emotes, crappy reasoning and just plain salt, then no that's not on the player recieving it to simply 'get over it'. Also, I never once said that powergaming and metagaming punishments are exclusively for villains, so you're simply talking hot air there, everyone can powergame and metagame, and it's not on the staff's head if you witness it and refuse to deal with it.

 

You are finding faults in the system, that plainly don't exist. If a player metagames, then report it. If a player powergames, then report it. However, if they do it in the name of 'providing villainy' and are clearly doing it to cause problems, then blacklists will come in. Blacklists already exist, as do bans. What this system is in place for, is those who have had multiple blacklists or a substantial amount of ban, clearly has not learned and thus is no longer trusted to perform villainy, needing the application to continue.

 

This is subjected to literally everyone who wishes to perform villainous activities. Want to partake in villainy? Then do it. This literally only affects repeat offenders of constantly giving ****-tier villainy.

Alright, so before this goes any further and either side gets frustrated at the other, I don't dislike you because you disagree. You may think this is stupid and a completely uneeded addition to my response, however I don't want to make enemies on the server so I believe it's necessary to clarify. I've seen quite a lot of the conversations on fourms lead to the arguers being genuinely angry at each other. 

That being said, there are no differences. People get just upset and use the same points when falling victim of, what you would call, "good banditing." Just as you'd argue that they should deal with it, I'm arguing to you that you should deal with it, they just drew the line in which they believe separates good and bad rp stands somewhere else. It's simply a matter of perspective. I won't respond to the other point for now because I'd like to reach a consensuses and I feel if I do, the conversation will become a drag. 

[herculean_wud 3662]

hrm