Techlock and weaponry

[Man of Respect 5471]

Hello

 

If the techlock is removed, there will be a lot of issues, and I'd like you guys to point this out and see if we can pile up any valid arguments. If you disagree, reply to the argument; this is a debate. Information may not be a hundred percent accurate.

 

Guns and powergaming

    I remember that we had medeusculors; weaponized staves that were powergamed to hell. I didn't experience any powergaming, but the feedback was negative, and I also think that it was one of the reasons it was removed. You simply couldn't see someone casting unless he made it explicit, which no one does; example: when casting electricity evocation or something, this one person that I saw roleplay a medededeusculor didn't show that he was actually casting magic. The good thing about staves is that you can see them (mages powergame the **** out of it regardless)

 

Why I support and don't support techlock

    Personally, I support the removal of techlock solely to be able to make the same things that mages can do. Most of the stuff I've seen that came from mages made me fairly jealous, and, as a shaman, I would likely never have these benefits on my character which is the one that I like to play. An arm that can speak and works as some sort of "Google", cubes that can store images you see, electricity staves that can one-shot you (just like a gun). This made me think that it wasn't fair for a large part of the playerbase that includes me to not have access to this kind of stuff. Did I forget to mention pocket dimensions and bedrock vaults?

 

    But I also support keeping techlock because the insane amount of powergaming with guns that we will have. Soon, you'll see elven sharpshooters that practice daily in roleplay and have a hundred years of experience with shooting and use this as an argument to be unbeatable (this actually happened, but with a bow and three hundred years). NO, you can't monitorate all the powergaming that will occur on the server. We don't have this many moderators or LT online all time that are willing to say what is powergaming and what isn't; arguments will raise to the roof and the forums will be filled with ban reports regarding metagaming with guns, including the part of bullets piercing iron armor or not.

 

Thoughts?

[Hanrahan 2983]

I think the largest factor that everyone forgets about when citing the 'Powergaming' worry with new weaponry, is that lore that includes something like a matchlock musket is for all intensive purposes, a re-flavoured crossbow. Every problem we've ever had with bows and crossbows and mages slinging fireballs is what we'll have with these. They're the same thing, and just because it's called a 'gun' doesn't mean it will operate differently than a crossbow.

 

A large amount of the playerbase, particularly the Oren playerbase wants this change of flavor - and admittedly, for themselves, but not to the exclusion of others.

[shortchangehero 4217]

All those mages who made fun of me at the academy will regret their ways when gunpowder weapons are added. Everyone pays.

[Man of Respect 5471]

31 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

I think the largest factor that everyone forgets about when citing the 'Powergaming' worry with new weaponry, is that lore that includes something like a matchlock musket is for all intensive purposes, a re-flavoured crossbow. Every problem we've ever had with bows and crossbows and mages slinging fireballs is what we'll have with these. They're the same thing, and just because it's called a 'gun' doesn't mean it will operate differently than a crossbow.

 

A large amount of the playerbase, particularly the Oren playerbase wants this change of flavor - and admittedly, for themselves, but not to the exclusion of others.

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Medeusculors also were a re-flavored staff and they were powergamed. Everyone powergamed medeusculors, or they sounded very powergame-ish. The issue could be with magic. Everyone has issues with magic.

 

I also recall there was this guy carrying a gauntlet that could charge some sort of genki-dama and shoot them while running around (a problemn with magic) It's not a re-flavoured crossbow, people will alter it to fit their own setting and get their way around having one-shot weapons.

 

Maybe magic could be too overpowered and combat-oriented instead of roleplay-oriented? @The Pink Lion

[iris1612 1780]

1 minute ago, Man of Respect said:

 

Medeusculors also were a re-flavored staff and they were powergamed. Everyone powergamed medeusculors, or they sounded very powergame-ish. The issue could be with magic. Everyone has issues with magic.

 

I also recall there was this guy carrying a gauntlet that could charge some sort of genki-dama and shoot them while running around (a problemn with magic) It's not a re-flavoured crossbow, people will alter it to fit their own setting and get their way around having one-shot weapons.

 

Maybe magic could be too overpowered and combat-oriented instead of roleplay-oriented? @The Pink Lion
 

Medasculors were powergamed because they were thru magic. What was powergamed about them was the magic aspect. The kinds of guns people are talking about adding, early firearms, are literally inferior to crossbows. You cannot powergame with them any more than you can with a crossbow. Sure, there will be people who claim to be super duper expert sharpshooters who never ever miss.. but those people already exist. They just do it with a crossbow. It's a crossbow with inferior aim and inferior load time plus a chance to explode in your face. It can't be powergamed any more than any other weapon

[tea with Gwyn 218]

13 minutes ago, max. said:

Medasculors were powergamed because they were thru magic. What was powergamed about them was the magic aspect. The kinds of guns people are talking about adding, early firearms, are literally inferior to crossbows. You cannot powergame with them any more than you can with a crossbow. Sure, there will be people who claim to be super duper expert sharpshooters who never ever miss.. but those people already exist. They just do it with a crossbow. It's a crossbow with inferior aim and inferior load time plus a chance to explode in your face. It can't be powergamed any more than any other weapon

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This man summarizes my point perfectly. I don't know about emasculators- medasculors, though.

[Man of Respect 5471]

2 minutes ago, max. said:

Medasculors were powergamed because they were thru magic. What was powergamed about them was the magic aspect. The kinds of guns people are talking about adding, early firearms, are literally inferior to crossbows. You cannot powergame with them any more than you can with a crossbow. Sure, there will be people who claim to be super duper expert sharpshooters who never ever miss.. but those people already exist. They just do it with a crossbow. It's a crossbow with inferior aim and inferior load time plus a chance to explode in your face. It can't be powergamed any more than any other weapon

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I'm not completely sure if people will actually roleplay it the way how perfect it'd be. People will shoot you and expect you to die with a single shoot, even if it's close or long range. Best way to find out tbh would be trial lore, but i'm still unsure even about the trial part. People don't powergame any less than mages do because both of them are people (not trying to sound like a sjw)

 

Midesculors are ****

[iris1612 1780]

13 minutes ago, Man of Respect said:

 

I'm not completely sure if people will actually roleplay it the way how perfect it'd be. People will shoot you and expect you to die with a single shoot, even if it's close or long range. Best way to find out tbh would be trial lore, but i'm still unsure even about the trial part. People don't powergame any less than mages do because both of them are people (not trying to sound like a sjw)

0

You aren't comprehending what I'm saying. People can powergame with the potential guns but they can also powergame with literally any other weapon in the game, to no worse an extent. You are right, people could shoot you and expect you to die in a single shot. People can also shoot you with a crossbow and expect you to die in a single shot. Or slash you with a sword and expect you to die instantly. While it is possible to powergame with these potential guns, you cannot powergame any more than with any other weapon. It is not worse or easier to powergame with or more powergamey than anything else.

[6xdestroyer 1610]

59 minutes ago, The Combatant said:

All those mages who made fun of me at the academy will regret their ways when gunpowder weapons are added. Everyone pays.

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Oh my god

[neopsychedelia 207]

You know, it's not impossible to lift the techlock while still excluding potentially overpowered elements like guns.

[Scuba 418]

We should remove crossbows, nothing is interesting about them beside someone looking at the wiki and deciding they know how use one with 2-3 emotes. Crossbows literally are the core factor to ruining any fantasy. 

 

"Haha let me just xd pull out my houndmaster hunting crossbow." Then again always going to be that person, but since we're on the subject I thought I'd maybe help switch the minds of understanding people. 

[HurferDurfer1 2978]

write gun lore ill write gunmancy lore. your move boy

[Z3r05t4r 855]

 

To toss in some stupidity. If you are really concerned that x and y will have it, hell, introduce applications for weapon handling. Not that it would be much of a point, considering that magic also spreads like wildfire, gets powergamed to hell, people inventing new things on an hourly basis, the amount of artifacts for every single possibility climbing through the roof (good on you though, some artifacts are certainly neat to have).

 

Let the humans have something that appeals more to them. Not every human player wants to be a mage to have access to something different in terms of firepower than magic. These people play humans because they want to experience that feeling where the humble human is inventive, not necessarily talented and gifted, and uses nature and physics to even out with those who have more of an affinity (and time) for magic.

[Taketheshot 3834]

Okay enough of this ****, lets take medeusculors and toss them into a whole other category, THEY ARE NOT GUNS, THEY NEVER WERE. The whole point of magic medeusculors was to take a mages power and trap it into a gem to be fired from essentially a stave. Albeit a stave made to look like a pistol/rifle that's what medeusculors were and they were power gamed to hell indeed, because magic is often power gamed to hell. Medeusculors were literally the exact same thing as magic, having owned one, mine could shoot explosive arcane bolts at the rate of 1 shot per 2 emotes, I took down four people alone with just the medeusculor and that is NOT what we want by adding matchlock/flintlock or whatever type of gun people come up with. It would be the same as fighting with a crossbow except not as good, it would serve to improve RP of groups and open up something the non clique magic circle friends can enjoy. Its not going to effect powegaming at all, will it be power gamed OF COURSE just like EVERY OTHER THING IN THIS GAME. And just like every other thing, its solved by modreqing just as if someone was shooting arrows at the rate of one per emote.

[overlord2305 202]

4 hours ago, Godwein Stafyr (Z3r05t4r) said:

 

To toss in some stupidity. If you are really concerned that x and y will have it, hell, introduce applications for weapon handling. Not that it would be much of a point, considering that magic also spreads like wildfire, gets powergamed to hell, people inventing new things on an hourly basis, the amount of artifacts for every single possibility climbing through the roof (good on you though, some artifacts are certainly neat to have).

 

Let the humans have something that appeals more to them. Not every human player wants to be a mage to have access to something different in terms of firepower than magic. These people play humans because they want to experience that feeling where the humble human is inventive, not necessarily talented and gifted, and uses nature and physics to even out with those who have more of an affinity (and time) for magic.

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Giving humans more power has to be the least well tought through idea I've heard in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. You want to give the humans, the most powerfull and numerous race on the server, that tends to group together into one, sometimes two massive faction(s) dwarfing ALL others even more power? Are you not taking into acount that even if anything given to them gave them just a 10% increase in 'power' that would still mean that every other race would be at an even larger disadvantage against the already disgustibgly large human factions nations etc.