Techlock and weaponry

[Fawb 557]

1 hour ago, overlord2305 said:

Giving humans more power has to be the least well tought through idea I've heard in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. You want to give the humans, the most powerfull and numerous race on the server, that tends to group together into one, sometimes two massive faction(s) dwarfing ALL others even more power? Are you not taking into acount that even if anything given to them gave them just a 10% increase in 'power' that would still mean that every other race would be at an even larger disadvantage against the already disgustibgly large human factions nations etc.

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Despite what you may think, not every human on the server is interested in dominating everyone else. Maybe that's because the human playerbase is a diverse group with lots of varying playstyles, like every other group on the server. It is unfair of you to lump us all into one stereotype, then claim we should be denied any form of progression and advancement simply because we are the largest community.

 

Perhaps you have not taken into account that weaponry and technology exists in lotc that dwarfs the power of early gunpowder weapons. Us filthy humans do not clamour to hinder others roleplay and prevent this magic-tech arms race, so why should other people be able to decide what roleplay we are allowed to enjoy. The techlock should be a two way street, not a way to artificially hold back a group when other aspects of magical technology on the server has been allowed to run wild.

[overlord2305 202]

14 minutes ago, Fawbole said:

Despite what you may think, not every human on the server is interested in dominating everyone else. Maybe that's because the human playerbase is a diverse group with lots of varying playstyles, like every other group on the server. It is unfair of you to lump us all into one stereotype, then claim we should be denied any form of progression and advancement simply because we are the largest community.

 

Perhaps you have not taken into account that weaponry and technology exists in lotc that dwarfs the power of early gunpowder weapons. Us filthy humans do not clamour to hinder others roleplay and prevent this magic-tech arms race, so why should other people be able to decide what roleplay we are allowed to enjoy. The techlock should be a two way street, not a way to artificially hold back a group when other aspects of magical technology on the server has been allowed to run wild.

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You are aware you disaprove of me lumping the human rpers together into a group only to do exactly the same in the next paragraph right

[Fawb 557]

5 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

You are aware you disaprove of me lumping the human rpers together into a group only to do exactly the same in the next paragraph right

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You lumped us into one negative stereotype that all humans want to do is rule the lord of the craft. I presented the idea that humans (and obviously yes, there are a few exceptions to the rule, but that is the case with every statement you can make about lotc and online communities in general) do not try and stomp on the magic roleplay that a large amount of the server enjoys, yet have our aspirations and progressions halted because..?

[overlord2305 202]

33 minutes ago, Fawbole said:

You lumped us into one negative stereotype that all humans want to do is rule the lord of the craft. I presented the idea that humans (and obviously yes, there are a few exceptions to the rule, but that is the case with every statement you can make about lotc and online communities in general) do not try and stomp on the magic roleplay that a large amount of the server enjoys, yet have our aspirations and progressions halted because..?

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So I re read my original post a few times and honestly I can't see anything that would suggest I think humans want to take over lotc, just that they're the most powerfull race already. So did you just reveal your own agenda like a third rate bond villain or...?

[Fawb 557]

2 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

So I re read my original post a few times and honestly I can't see anything that would suggest I think humans want to take over lotc, just that they're the most powerfull race already. So did you just reveal your own agenda like a third rate bond villain or...?

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Seems to me that your original post states that the humans would be unable to have anything resembling technology without using it to further their OOC lotc power level, which I can assure you would not be the case. Also, said advancements would not be exclusive to humans and I'm unsure what makes you think it would be. If they were the powergaming doomsday devices that they're claimed to be (which they wont be), there is nothing stopping an elf or uruk from picking one up. But would they use one? Considering the wide range of destructive magic and technology already available, a small projectile fired by the energy of a fine black powder pales in comparison to lightning bolts or flame-spitting gauntlets.

[overlord2305 202]

1 minute ago, Fawbole said:

Seems to me that your original post states that the humans would be unable to have anything resembling technology without using it to further their OOC lotc power level, which I can assure you would not be the case. Also, said advancements would not be exclusive to humans and I'm unsure what makes you think it would be. If they were the powergaming doomsday devices that they're claimed to be (which they wont be), there is nothing stopping an elf or uruk from picking one up. But would they use one? Considering the wide range of destructive magic and technology already available, a small projectile fired by the energy of a fine black powder pales in comparison to lightning bolts or flame-spitting gauntlets.

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It doesn't matter if others could use the tech too due to the overwhelming numbers advantage humans posses over every other race.

Say for instance it makes defeating someone 10 % easier. If everyone got said tech the increase in ease of killing would have gone up for humans by a far higher percentage than for other races even if every individual got the same increase.

Now I hear you say "we'll put them behind a application if you want to use them" at which point you could just as well get magic instead of ADDING MORE DANG SYSTEMS INSTEAD OF IMPROVING AND USING THE ONES ALREADY IN PLACE LIKE A DANG POLITICIAN

[Fawb 557]

15 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

It doesn't matter if others could use the tech too due to the overwhelming numbers advantage humans posses over every other race.

 

I fail to see how humans having the largest population means they should be forbidden from inventing and developing their own combat technologies to survive in a world with the magical equivalent of guns and the internet already existing. There must at least be some consistency with the techlock if it is to be enforced on humans.

 

9 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

It doesn't matter if others could use the tech too due to the overwhelming numbers advantage humans posses over every other race.

Say for instance it makes defeating someone 10 % easier. If everyone got said tech the increase in ease of killing would have gone up for humans by a far higher percentage than for other races even if every individual got the same increase.

abc

There is no balance when it comes to roleplay fighting. There's no measurable scale of how easy it is to defeat someone. There's no making someone 10% easier to defeat. There is no calculable "ease of killing" rate. What it comes down to is two people acting out characters through text emotes. If someone wants to abuse the system and powergame to defeat you, they would do it whether or not they had a gun.

 

11 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

Now I hear you say "we'll put them behind a application if you want to use them" at which point you could just as well get magic instead of ADDING MORE DANG SYSTEMS INSTEAD OF IMPROVING AND USING THE ONES ALREADY IN PLACE LIKE A DANG POLITICIAN

A lot of human characters don't like magic or would want to become a mage. Is it so wrong for a culture to want some level of technology to even the playing field, without having to shoehorn their character into a mage-scholar archetype to get magic? Let us have our fun, it wont impact your experience negatively in any way.

 

 

[overlord2305 202]

1 hour ago, Fawbole said:

 

There is no balance when it comes to roleplay fighting. There's no measurable scale of how easy it is to defeat someone. There's no making someone 10% easier to defeat. There is no calculable "ease of killing" rate. What it comes down to is two people acting out characters through text emotes. If someone wants to abuse the system and powergame to defeat you, they would do it whether or not they had a gun.

You know damn well that I was using the percentage as a replacement for having to put in a several page long explanation as to how having a firearm or other 'advanced tech' makes it easier to kill someone. Stop pretending to be a idiot.

 

1 hour ago, Fawbole said:

 

A lot of human characters don't like magic or would want to become a mage. Is it so wrong for a culture to want some level of technology to even the playing field, without having to shoehorn their character into a mage-scholar archetype to get magic? Let us have our fun, it wont impact your experience negatively in any way.

 

 

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Then thats their damn choice and they can deal with it themselves aswell. Ehat you're proposing is more or less equality of outcome, which not only makes putting in the time and effort to learn magic feel less rewarding, but it also means you'd rather make up some new shitty lore to get power instead of going through the same process as EVERYONE ELSE

[Fawb 557]

7 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

Then thats their damn choice and they can deal with it themselves aswell. Ehat you're proposing is more or less equality of outcome, which not only makes putting in the time and effort to learn magic feel less rewarding, but it also means you'd rather make up some new shitty lore to get power instead of going through the same process as EVERYONE ELSE

Unfortunately, as I explained before, some characters do not want to learn magic. I don't want to force my character, who isn't a fan of magic and mages in general due to in character experiences, to learn a magic when it would be completely against his values. What you suggest also completely cheapens the concept of magic. It's no longer magical when everyone on the server is proficient in multiple T5 magics and has an arsenal of enchanted artefacts. Wouldn't that take away from your sense of being rewarded for learning magic, more so than a bunch of silly humans running round with guns shooting each other? Nobody is forcing you to come and roleplay with the humans.

[Tsuyose 3285]

14 hours ago, The Combatant said:

All those mages who made fun of me at the academy will regret their ways when gunpowder weapons are added. Everyone pays.

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dont go to lotc tomorrow. ur a good friend.

[overlord2305 202]

2 hours ago, Fawbole said:

Unfortunately, as I explained before, some characters do not want to learn magic. I don't want to force my character, who isn't a fan of magic and mages in general due to in character experiences, to learn a magic when it would be completely against his values. What you suggest also completely cheapens the concept of magic. It's no longer magical when everyone on the server is proficient in multiple T5 magics and has an arsenal of enchanted artefacts. Wouldn't that take away from your sense of being rewarded for learning magic, more so than a bunch of silly humans running round with guns shooting each other? Nobody is forcing you to come and roleplay with the humans.

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Right, I'm just going to repeat myself again (and for the last time) since you don't seem particularly prone to reason. If your charachter doesn't want to learn magic they don't learn magic. You don't get to have the techlock removed just so your charachter can be as powerfull as a mage despite not putting in any of the effort because you, as a person would rather write up new lore than have your charachter try to overcome their past experiences and learn magic as part of charachter development.

 

Also again I'm not sure if you've actualy read what I posted but nowhere did I suggest everyone should have all of the best magic

[Z3r05t4r 855]

51 minutes ago, overlord2305 said:

Right, I'm just going to repeat myself again (and for the last time) since you don't seem particularly prone to reason. If your charachter doesn't want to learn magic they don't learn magic. You don't get to have the techlock removed just so your charachter can be as powerfull as a mage despite not putting in any of the effort because you, as a person would rather write up new lore than have your charachter try to overcome their past experiences and learn magic as part of charachter development.

 

Also again I'm not sure if you've actualy read what I posted but nowhere did I suggest everyone should have all of the best magic

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Then again, you do not consider, that the potential introduction of crude firearms is not human exclusive. And I never said anything about "strengthening/buffing humans", I primarily referred to giving them another alternative per say, more diversity to their very prevalent military RP they have.

 

You feel humans are dominating? Well, I can neither disagree nor agree. Most numerous, yes. United? No, in the past times definitely not. We do tend to have a lot of human groups that do fight eachother as well, so be mindful about that before you go about and shout you are being repressed.

 

 

I do speak well from experience when I say that. I have primarily played human characters for five years.

 

 

EDIT: Besides, a man in a crossbow can pick of a mage quite easily too if he wants to and actually hits before the mage can cast his spell. A weapon that takes long to reload, is very inaccurate on top of that, is a lot less likely to do that. On longer ranges, obviously. Bottom line is, these potentially new weapons are definitely not meant to be a counter piece to traditional magic per say, as such has so much more variety and utility than just a boomstick that propels a pearl of metal.

[NotEvilAtAll 10906]

7 hours ago, overlord2305 said:

Giving humans more power has to be the least well tought through idea I've heard in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. You want to give the humans, the most powerfull and numerous race on the server, that tends to group together into one, sometimes two massive faction(s) dwarfing ALL others even more power? Are you not taking into acount that even if anything given to them gave them just a 10% increase in 'power' that would still mean that every other race would be at an even larger disadvantage against the already disgustibgly large human factions nations etc.

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This statement has sorta been falsified by the messages above but I still think it has a good point nevertheless

 

Humans don't need more power

[Man of Respect 5471]

On 28/09/2017 at 12:07 AM, Godwein Stafyr (Z3r05t4r) said:

considering that magic also spreads like wildfire, gets powergamed to hell, people inventing new things on an hourly basis, the amount of artifacts for every single possibility climbing through the roof (good on you though, some artifacts are certainly neat to have).

 

I agree a hundred percent with this. Magic always gets powergamed the **** out of it.

There was this guy that I got to play with very little, Blawharag or something, and he somewhat wrote the lore for shamanism with mogroka or someone, I'm not completely sure, but what he said, according to @Humanistic, also made me change completely my point of view and form a new opinion on magic.

 

According to Humanistic, Blawharag said that magic shouldn't be for combat, it should be to give depth to roleplay. Nowadays, we have magics that can do very specific stuff, and everything is well detailed as "Spells" or "Stuff that you can do with this magic". The freedom with shamanism, elementalism more specifically, is that you can do whatever you want with a specific element. Witch doctor, you can brew whatever potion you want. It's a great feeling of freedom that makes me love it. But no, assmancy allows you to shoot hardened ass hair straight out of the darkest depths of your dark hole that can pierce armor, or grow your ass hair to make a hairy barrier around you; its everything too detailed and specific, not allowing magic to have more creativity and freedom.

 

Want more freedom? Create lore for it, but it simply could not be necessary to do so if the players had more freedom to do whatever they could still. Regardless, the best you can get is fire evocation summoning a fireball or air evocation creating invisible compressed hair that can slice through flesh.

 

Out of this, and with some discussion, I decided to come to a possible conclusion that magic has gone to ****, to a point that it's on a deep ass stinky hole that no lore re-write can fix unless it removes evocations and creates further depth into roleplay. People rarely ever use magic to do something useful or relevant besides sitting down and playing Gandalf or charging a dwarven hand magical golem arm cannon to blast your enemies off. Hell, to think of it, you can make even prosthesis with magic, and people always say "But oh, they're weaker" **** it, they're still a working prosthesis with techlock.

 

Rune cannons? Magic.

Floating islands? Magic.

Advanced AI? Magic.

Medeloscalors (they are guns, @Taketheshot)? Magic.

Bedrock vaults? Magic.

Stronger weapons? Magic.

 

And we still have techlock? Come the ******* **** on. You can do some cool crap with alchemy too, but its still magic in one way or another. Personally, I support the removal of the techlock to give me, that I am also apart of the same playerbase that opts to not get voidal magic somehow (I have shamanism), I do not get access to the coolest AI and etcetera stuff unless I go in the forbbiden parts of shamanism, or if I learn Spirit Smithing aswell (which also isn't that deep).

 

I will use a gun if they are released, I feel that it'll give more depth to some sort of cartel or drug dealer roleplay, which is something that I enjoy a lot. Henchmen carrying guns? Hell yeah! I would even somehow, try to develop a facility of orcish technology or something, adapt myself.

[Sultan 3953]

On 9/29/2017 at 10:12 PM, Man of Respect said:

 

I agree a hundred percent with this. Magic always gets powergamed the **** out of it.

There was this guy that I got to play with very little, Blawharag or something, and he somewhat wrote the lore for shamanism with mogroka or someone, I'm not completely sure, but what he said, according to @Humanistic, also made me change completely my point of view and form a new opinion on magic.

 

According to Humanistic, Blawharag said that magic shouldn't be for combat, it should be to give depth to roleplay. Nowadays, we have magics that can do very specific stuff, and everything is well detailed as "Spells" or "Stuff that you can do with this magic". The freedom with shamanism, elementalism more specifically, is that you can do whatever you want with a specific element. Witch doctor, you can brew whatever potion you want. It's a great feeling of freedom that makes me love it. But no, assmancy allows you to shoot hardened ass hair straight out of the darkest depths of your dark hole that can pierce armor, or grow your ass hair to make a hairy barrier around you; its everything too detailed and specific, not allowing magic to have more creativity and freedom.

 

Want more freedom? Create lore for it, but it simply could not be necessary to do so if the players had more freedom to do whatever they could still. Regardless, the best you can get is fire evocation summoning a fireball or air evocation creating invisible compressed hair that can slice through flesh.

 

Out of this, and with some discussion, I decided to come to a possible conclusion that magic has gone to ****, to a point that it's on a deep ass stinky hole that no lore re-write can fix unless it removes evocations and creates further depth into roleplay. People rarely ever use magic to do something useful or relevant besides sitting down and playing Gandalf or charging a dwarven hand magical golem arm cannon to blast your enemies off. Hell, to think of it, you can make even prosthesis with magic, and people always say "But oh, they're weaker" **** it, they're still a working prosthesis with techlock.

 

Rune cannons? Magic.

Floating islands? Magic.

Advanced AI? Magic.

Medeloscalors (they are guns, @Taketheshot)? Magic.

Bedrock vaults? Magic.

Stronger weapons? Magic.

 

And we still have techlock? Come the ******* **** on. You can do some cool crap with alchemy too, but its still magic in one way or another. Personally, I support the removal of the techlock to give me, that I am also apart of the same playerbase that opts to not get voidal magic somehow (I have shamanism), I do not get access to the coolest AI and etcetera stuff unless I go in the forbbiden parts of shamanism, or if I learn Spirit Smithing aswell (which also isn't that deep).

 

I will use a gun if they are released, I feel that it'll give more depth to some sort of cartel or drug dealer roleplay, which is something that I enjoy a lot. Henchmen carrying guns? Hell yeah! I would even somehow, try to develop a facility of orcish technology or something, adapt myself.

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This is correct. In the early days Aegis/Auslon Shamanism and Druidism were mostly heavily none-combat magics. Elementalism was a combat magic because it was made before the "core - orcs" came to be, so we could not justify recreating other peoples lore we kept it as it is out of respect. Moreover, it was heavily discriminated against in role play, which lead to its decline in rp. Currently, Dark Shamanism is what we used to agitate Elementalist about, their lore was actually about capturing and forcing spirits to do their bidding. Ofcourse the lore is completely changed now, since we were not afforded the same decency as we afforded our predecessors. As for the 'Fathers of the sub sections of Shamanism; Blawharag/Lutaman - which was basically orcish enchanting imbuing the power of the ancestors in weapons/items + combat buffs to one's self. Mogroka/Farseeing - basically wisemen, blessings such as calling for rain or a successful hunt and multiple people combat buffs. Witch Doctar/Brevius - brewing, hexing, and such. 

 

Some fun stuff we used to do with Shamanism back in the day is every-year when the time comes to get ready for the festival of Krug, we would erect the a altar called the heart of Krug, and every Orc, would seek out the strongest foe they could find and win a 1v1 fight against him/it honorably so he may spill his blood on the altar be the foe sentient or a mighty beast if enough sacrificial blood is brought the Avatar of Krug would grace the festival, yes we summoned the Krug.. Well technically more like a minor part of Krugs spirit would come to the festival, it did not mean anything nor had power it could not interact with the world - give a few words of wisdom and leave pretty much but it was cool. 

 

We also used to try to expand the desert with totems imbued with magic erected in the edges of the Uzg to further expand its borders, we used to mine sand and then every day expand the desert slowly by placing a few blocks at a time.. Heck we almost went to war with Malinor in Aegis for it, cause their forest started withering and turning into a desert.