Haelun'or, High Elves and Feedback

[Chase 3793]

Like others said, assimilate into a different culture. Probably your best bet tbh

[Ankan 2875]

2 hours ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Lemme preface by pointing out that it is Leowarrior, your traditional antichrist and eternal nemesis to Connor Williams saying this

 

My advice to you is that what people outside your playerbase says do not matter. You're under no obligation to please them. You do what you think is best for your playerbase. If that means joining a larger settlement, do it. If that means starting anew in some smaller freebuild plot, do it.

 

I think making this thread was a mistake, because ultimately, nothing anyone thinks outside of your group matters. Since it will be your group making a decision on what works best for them and what brings them the most enjoyment.

 

The high elves do indeed hold a fairly unique cultural RP niche in this server, and have for years. Their RP is quite different from the RP of other elves. It would be a shame for it to dissapear after so many years. I think you guys should do what you gotta do to ensure it survives, and ultimately how you do it is up to you, and no outside entity should dictate how you choose to do it.

 

We have had many discussions internally on the approach going forward. Bringing in more input doesn't make the input given by other community members less worth. Just as the thread show, there are a lot of people who personally dislike Haelun'or and the High Elves for whatever reason they might have, but there is also a lot of support for the culture. I have gotten a lot of great contacts, people who have given advice on maintaining communities, people offering their writing skills and a lot of other players wanting to create High Elves of their own.

 

The general consensus in the High Elven community has been to NOT change our unique culture, but improve and add things to make it even more interesting, and hence that is most likely what the approach will be. I have dreamt wet about a properly seperated and organised greater Elven Federal State, but that time is probably not now. Sorry to disappoint all you Dominionites and 'fenns! 

[Narthok 10416]

5 hours ago, Aythyinae said:

 

Thanks for the long response, Narthok. I think you have very well described how I feel as well. After DustyDune left we wanted to address some of those issues too, especially the issue with our settlement. We began working on a rebuild -- an Okarn'thilln 2.0, which would be much better suitable for the size had and culture that we were trying to embrace. Talias had an EXCELLENT build of a centralised small island with a smaller amount of houses. It is true eye candy. When Talias and I lost the election after DustyDune left, Aviers and Countessem had a different vision of the rebuild and we ended up with what we have now. Should you wish so, I would love to share the screenshots of our proposed build in private.

 

I always found hardline purity super fun to RP myself, but it is, like Jaeden pointed out above, it forces characters to exclude themselves from a lot of other RP and a lot of other RP hubs. Athera was great. I truly miss my boy VL and our struggles against the Orenian pigs.

 

Make the helves great again, I agree.

Humans have a very similar playstyle insofar as they often pursue racism and superiority as pillars of their culture. This often results in them interacting with others more as they seek out inferiors and subjugate or genocide them. I don't think purity needs to result in exclusion and isolation, I just think elves have the unfortunate habit of walling themselves off from the world. 

[Medvekoma 2073]

Learn from the fall of Urguan. Urguan fell to inactivity too.

 

1. Do not be afraid to try out new things and change. You no longer have the Silver State name above you, you can abandon the details that did not work. Racial supremacy is one of these.

 

2. Start small, then re-build gradually. Build your leadership and playerbase, and remember. Noobs are the future.

 

3. Make sure none of the old guard are left on the server to return and harass you for any change you could possibly make.

[Sporadic 2844]

20 hours ago, Aythyinae said:

This is a thank you to the High Elven vanguardists creating the lore and building the first Silver City.

 

 

I'd like to chip in 2 minas too:

 

• I was only involved with Helves a relatively short while, in Asulon. Massive props to the people currently hustling to keep the Mali'Aheral up on their feet and sticking with it through all this time. To me, it was insanely stressful. I can only say I sympathize and admire the people who've managed to kept everything up on their feet, through the good times and the bad.
• When the city does well it quickly acquires a lot of haters. People tend to not like the IC snobbishness and sometimes this leaks over into OOC ? . Not pointing fingers one way or the other btw, just reminding High Elves to laugh it off and not take anything too seriously. Even in a climate that is increasingly more raid-heavy, just shrug and RP the 30 minute forgetful window. None of it matters OOC. Nothing is a more satisfying answer to "your city will be dead soon if you don't fix your attitude" claims by sticking around for 5 years
• Kalenz is undeniably the greatest High Elf RPer there ever was but don't emulate Kalenz unless you are confident you have the same amount of time available and the same talents and tenacity that Connor has. Being in that position is not easy; there'll be a lot of vituperative people coming your way.
• I like racism better when it's subtle rather than outright. Leave the violent and conflict-instigated racism to the human playerbases. The High Elves don't have the numbers to back it up anyway; its RP centers around quality rather than quantity (although quantity is also important).
• Be funny! The greatest High Elves delivered their snobby, elitist, self-important attitude with a smile. Again, the humans have the grimdark alt-history xenophobia down to a pat so why take that road? Introducing humor into the interaction reminds people it's all in good fun.
• It's better to keep the lore simple and let every individual decide how to interpret it. High Elves have always been blessed by very engaged and creative character builders, and if you give them enough room to play around you end up with things that will pleasantly surprise you.
• It is very unfortunate there's always a wedge being driven between High Elves and the other Elven Races. This was never meant to happen. High Elves are designed as a foil for the Wood Elves, but for some reason in history the two were always plotting to overthrow and/or genocide each other. It's too intense. They can trade jabs back and forth and be nasty to each other but there should be an underlying acknowledgement that they are all in the same boat. Internal conflict doesn't always have to conclude in violence. If this is done right it can be good for all elven RP, not just helves.
• Don't make the cities so big. This is mostly LC's fault but for some reason people always have this urge to build the maximum amount they possibly can... but then they can't actually fill the city up with enough active RPers. When High Elf RP dwindles they usually default to "The Tomb" or similar, and it's usually a lot of fun despite being compact and architecturally uninspiring.
• If at all possible, don't make separate cities for High Elves and Wood Elves at all.

 

But of course these are all personal opinions and it's up to every individual currently involved with Haelun'or to take things how they wish.

[Ankan 2875]

38 minutes ago, Sporadic said:

I'd like to chip in 2 minas too...

 

Thanks for the great points, Sporadic! The Asulon-'thill are still role models. When we have gotten things settled, I would love to invite Ellir to come host another Elven lesson!

[Daisy 9738]

Honestly I can't add much more than what BNK and Arche have already mentioned, those two are people I even looked to for inspiration when I was leading the Mali'thill (second half of Athera & second half of Vailor - both times of rebuilding), and their words have much wisdom.

 

If I could give one piece of advise it is simply to not build big. There aren't enough people dedicated to Haelun'or to have the large cities like we had at our peaks. The most fun I had in Haelun'or was when we were a small group with internal political strife and ridiculous RP during our mission to rebuild ourselves. Other than that, I think what Arche said about the racism is true - act it out as a subtle superiority with funny jabs at people, not as outright genocidal maniacs. The goal of the high elves should never be to conquer.

 

p.s. I've been itching to update Tradition and Silver to the best I can - I'm probably one of the more well versed people in the events between where it's currently left off and at least mid-Axios. If only I had the time...

[Gavin_ 2027]

I haven't been active on LOTC for many, many months now and it has been even longer since I've played a High Elf. This news is actually quite sad as some of my most fun and memorable experiences on this server has been in Haelun'or, as a High Elf. Here's my two cents.

I think for High Elves, stability is imperative and given the cyclical nature of High Elven culture*, this isn't necessarily do-able. For instance, you'll always have the clash between 'Old Helves' and 'New Helves'. Simply put, they can be categorized into two different philosophical schools. The old High Elf will adhere to a more classical, isolationist, conservative view of the world, whereas the new High Elves follow a more romantic, globalist, liberal view of the world. 

Speaking from experience, and I started playing a High Elf way back in the day when they were a relatively new subrace, what made High Elves unique were there notions of grandeur and purity. This is what set them apart from every other race and what defined High Elven culture. Snobbery and arrogance were to High Elves like bread and butter. Now, arguments can be made that this kind of Role Play isn't really accessible to a lot of people and that it can be difficult for new High Elves to kind of adopt for two reasons.

The first reason is that it can be difficult to RP as something which in real life, you might be completely at odds with. I know for example with myself, I found it hard to be racist and cold to those who weren't Pure High Elves. This is a legitimate issue, perhaps especially for younger people who role play as High Elves. On a similar line, the second reason is that, at least back in my time, as a new High Elf, you will be judged very quickly as to how you role play out your character. For this reason, many people might be thrown off of the idea of playing a High Elf and I almost was. 


In my opinion, liberal High Elves are like any other branch of Elves. There isn't really anything which sets them apart other than their appearance. If you want to see High Elves return to when they were at their peak (Arguably, The Fringe), then you need to start going back in time and adhering to the strict and rigid, cold and purity mad nature that worked so well for them. High Elves back then were extremely fun to play, very active and thriving. All is not lost!

* High Elven culture usually sways between two extremes for certain periods of time. On one hand, they are very liberal and on the other, very conservative.
 

[_Elrith_ 4525]

I think people are forgetting that creating a nation should not be a goal, that is a side-quest. Development of a culture and the RP around is by far the most important focus. It doesn't matter if your culture has 5 people or 30 people, what matters is at the end of the day you have an enjoyable RP experience. People who don't RP with you don't matter, their opinions shouldn't affect what you do, because if they aren't RPing with you then your RP won't even affect theirs. Of course, creating a culture that is attractive is nice, but no one is under obligation to do so. High Elven RP is extremely niche and targets a portion of the player base that thoroughly enjoys it. It's not really the culture that's the problem, it's the RP that is not being done that is the problem and the mentality that players have. At the end of the day, a lot of people log onto LoTC to RP and have fun, not to play Nation Creation Simulator. 

[Guest]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:46 AM, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Lemme preface by pointing out that it is Leowarrior, your traditional antichrist and eternal nemesis to Connor Williams saying this

 

My advice to you is that what people outside your playerbase says do not matter. You're under no obligation to please them. You do what you think is best for your playerbase. If that means joining a larger settlement, do it. If that means starting anew in some smaller freebuild plot, do it.

 

I think making this thread was a mistake, because ultimately, nothing anyone thinks outside of your group matters. Since it will be your group making a decision on what works best for them and what brings them the most enjoyment.

 

The high elves do indeed hold a fairly unique cultural RP niche in this server, and have for years. Their RP is quite different from the RP of other elves. It would be a shame for it to dissapear after so many years. I think you guys should do what you gotta do to ensure it survives, and ultimately how you do it is up to you, and no outside entity should dictate how you choose to do it.

 

[Kaelan 1918]

Moved to The Great Library. It shall be sorted into the appropriate category shortly.

 

If you feel this is a mistake, please contact myself or any FM and we'll restore it.