[✗] [Lore] Compilation of Player Strength Cannon

[dard 726]

Compilation of Player Strength Cannon

This list is meant to normalize the levels of strength that player characters can achieve.  Creatures and beings played by Story Team Actors are intentionally left undefined. Precise numbers are subject to being tweaked by the decision of the lore team and the general consensus of the players (provided it is still in an editable state in submissions).  The issue is that there are too many varying definitions of how strong their characters are, and in most cases it is left to the players to define that.  That idea is fundamentally wrong because it goes unchecked until a situation where Moderator or Lore Team supervision is required, where staff members from both teams have to sift through obfuscated lore posts and judge whether or not they were staying true to that goal.  The intention of this is to eliminate that hassle and create one simple reference.  Additionally, this will give structure to existing magics so that every new magic submission will not have to define their own version of “Mage-tier” strength, so instead they’d simply refer to the Mage-tier strength (or appropriate category) that is listed on this post.
 

Mage-tier 

These are the physically weakest beings, finding themselves without any muscle tone and subhuman strength. Mage-tier characters can lift at most 75lbs.  They are capable of wielding weapons up to the weight of a standard shortsword without issue, though cannot use any combat proficiency (such as swinging a sword with equal merit to a warrior).  Those with Mage-tier strength are incapable of wearing anything beyond leather armor or chainmail.

 

Redlines:

• Mage-tier beings can lift or pull up to 75lbs in combat, straining at the 65-75lb mark and requiring concentration. 

• Mages-tier beings can use light weaponry like daggers or shortswords to fight, though they lack force behind their blows.

  • A mage can slit someone’s throat by surprise, but find their strikes easily parried by stronger individuals.

• Mage-tier beings cannot use armor beyond the capacity of chainmail or leather armor.

 

Serf-tier

The most common being, those with Serf-tier strength are your average villager or commoner without any martial training.  Those with Serf-tier strength possess the means to defend themselves, but will find themselves uncomfortable in offensive maneuvers.  Those with Serf-tier strength can lift or pull objects with weight up to about 200lbs, often struggling at the 180-200lb mark. While capable of wielding weapons such as maces or swords, Serf-tier characters are incapable of matching those with skilled martial prowess.  Those with Serf-tier strength cannot successfully wear heavier forms of armor such as plate.

 

Redlines:

• While mostly only ST event actors play characters that would utilize this level of strength, this exist as guidelines for those wanting to play a typical commoner, as well as select magics that would implement this level of strength.

• Serf-tier beings can lift or pull up to 200lbs in combat, straining at the 180-200lb mark and requiring dedicated concentration.

• Serf-tier beings are capable of using weapons to a high enough proficiency to defend themselves, but it is uncharacteristic of these level of characters to be capable of even combat against Knight-tier beings or higher.

• Serf-tier characters cannot use armor beyond the capacity of chainmail or leather armor.
   

Knight-tier

Knight-tier strength is the strongest level of strength that humans, elves, dwarves, or any other humanoid bar Orcs can achieve.  They are proficient with most martial weapons, capable of using them with ease and a warrior’s prowess. Those with Knight-tier strength possess the means to lift or pull up to 150lbs in combat, and 300lbs in a controlled environment such as a weightlifting contest.  Those with Knight-tier strength are easily capable of wearing plate armors, provided it fits their body.

 

Redlines:

• Knight-tier beings can lift or pull up to 150lbs in combat scenarios, straining and requiring concentration around the 140-150lbs mark.  In controlled, noncombat scenarios, knight-tier characters can lift up to 300lbs.

• Knight-tier characters are proficient to use most any human-sized weapon or armor, provided it is suitable for their character size. 

 

Orc-tier

One can imagine Orc-tier strength as strength that rivals that of a supersoldier, though it is not superhuman.  Orcs can lift or pull up to 500lbs in combat scenarios, and have been seen to commit amazing feats of strength in controlled environments, like carrying a tree trunk.  Like those with Knight-tier strength, those with Orcish strength can utilize heavy weapons and armor with ease, especially those fitted and sized specifically for those with Orcish strength.  

 

Redlines: 

• Orc-tier strength is capable of lifting or pulling up to 500lbs, straining and requiring concentration at the 400lbs mark.  In controlled, noncombat scenarios, an Orc-tiered being can lift up to 500lbs.  

• Most beings with Orcish strength, such as Orcs, are capable of utilizing weapons and armor for larger creatures that those with Knight-tier strength are incapable of using.

 

Golem-tier

Like the name suggests, those with Golem-tier strength is delegated to the most powerful construct that a player can play—typically a Golem.  Those with Golem levels of strength are capable of lifting or pulling up to 1000lbs in combat scenarios, and are capable of commit extreme feats such as carrying boulders or holding up metal palisades.  The capabilities of these creatures to wield weapons and armor is dependant on the creature itself.

 

Redlines:

• Beings with Golem-tier strength can lift or pull up to 1000lbs in combative scenarios, straining at the 800lb mark.  Within reason, they are capable of pushing themselves further in noncombative scenarios to far exceed this. 

• Beings with Golem-tier strength are variable with what equipment they can utilize, dependent on the creature type.  

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Dardonas

[Vermy 1346]

what about hou-zi bigboys?

[dard 726]

3 minutes ago, Vermy said:

what about hou-zi bigboys?

It’d be up to people to define what category their creature fits in for the most part 

[Vermy 1346]

I would say between and orc and a golem, you agree?

[Keening 244]

I’d suggest adding in a small variety of strengths between genders, such as noting the maximum strength of a female and maximum strength of a male. Very minor, but probably helpful so there’s a distinct difference between the strengths of the two. Biologically, a man is more likely to have increased strength in comparison, whereas a female is more lithe, and so on.

 

I’m not sexist I swear

[AlphaMoist 1707]

I just want to state that throughout this piece, “non combat scenarios” and “combat scenarios” are differentiated with the former being stronger than the latter, when in reality the exact opposite is true. The fight or flight response is a powerful tool, and you’ll find yourself to have far more strength in the middle of fight than you would while doing something idly. This may have been done for balancing is my guess.

 

2 hours ago, Dardonas said:

2 hours ago, Dardonas said:

Serf-tier beings can lift or pull up to 200lbs in combat, straining at the 180-200lb mark and requiring dedicated concentration.

Serf-tier characters cannot use armor beyond the capacity of chainmail or leather armor.
 

Full plate armor is around 33-55 lbs. No reason a serf would be unable to wear plate.

 

 

I always find these types of suggestions a bit on the off side. Strength isn’t really an exact thing you can just shove into a class and define out. Several factors come into play when defining who is stronger than who. It’s an extremely dynamic and fluid thing that is constantly shifting and changing and dependent on a character’s environment. There are mages that can lift more than 75lbs easily. A mage’s strength wildly depends on the magic in question and, again, the character’s lifestyle. There’s going to be serfs who are stronger than knights, either due to genetics or just, again, their lifestyle.

 

A chart listing such specific strengths laid out into a class system isn’t at all something we need, and all it would do is further inhibit dynamic roleplay, and probably cause a lot more bitching and whining because “waah im a knight i should be stronger than you peasant!”.

 

If I’m missing or misunderstood something, feel free to correct me. It’s 0445 and I’m right at the end of my shift, so I’m tired.

 

[Man of Respect 5430]

Olog should be golem or below golem tier

 

2 hours ago, TheAlphaMoist said:

There are mages that can lift more than 75lbs easily. A mage’s strength wildly depends on the magic in question and, again, the character’s lifestyle. There’s going to be serfs who are stronger than knights, either due to genetics or just, again, their lifestyle.

 

Mages that are strong thanks to genetics or lifting weights on gym are min-maxing and thus, powergaming to be the perfect and strongest lotc protagonist in my opinion, and these people need to seriously stop

[_Jandy_ 3174]

This needs codified lore?

[dard 726]

4 hours ago, Man of Respect said:

Olog should be golem or below golem tier

 

 

Mages that are strong thanks to genetics or lifting weights on gym are min-maxing and thus, powergaming to be the perfect and strongest lotc protagonist in my opinion, and these people need to seriously stop

 

2 hours ago, _Jandy_ said:

This needs codified lore?

I’m going to once again reiterate that this isn’t some sort of class system, it’s guidelines that give form to commonly referred to things in magic/creature posts.  

 

What is Orc strength currently?  Well you ask any number of players and it’ll range from being Shrek, being a Warcraft orc, or being something completely else.  That’s the issue.  People make up how strong they are on the fly and there are so many outdated or varying sources, if any, to the point where people just allow the powergaming.  

 

This is meant for a generalized cannon and point of reference.  Not every human gets to be Ser Gregor Clegane, I’m sorry.

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

What good is this lore if it is used only to box people up with another reason to deny their roleplay and ban them if they disagree?

[NotEvilAtAll 9926]

Serfs can’t wear plate armor? That’s objectively false. If the armor fits you properly, anybody can wear plate. It weighs more than Chain-mail, but the weight is spread across the whole body. 

People can run, jump, climb, and roll in full plate just fine. It’s designed to provide as much mobility and protection as possible.

I’m fairly certain that most Serfs would have used farming equipment that weighs more than 15 kg. Said farming equipment’s weight is not evenly spread across the body. Plate armor should not be a problem for them.

[dard 726]

7 hours ago, TheAlphaMoist said:

I just want to state that throughout this piece, “non combat scenarios” and “combat scenarios” are differentiated with the former being stronger than the latter, when in reality the exact opposite is true. The fight or flight response is a powerful tool, and you’ll find yourself to have far more strength in the middle of fight than you would while doing something idly. This may have been done for balancing is my guess.

 

Full plate armor is around 33-55 lbs. No reason a serf would be unable to wear plate.

 

 

I always find these types of suggestions a bit on the off side. Strength isn’t really an exact thing you can just shove into a class and define out. Several factors come into play when defining who is stronger than who. It’s an extremely dynamic and fluid thing that is constantly shifting and changing and dependent on a character’s environment. There are mages that can lift more than 75lbs easily. A mage’s strength wildly depends on the magic in question and, again, the character’s lifestyle. There’s going to be serfs who are stronger than knights, either due to genetics or just, again, their lifestyle.

 

A chart listing such specific strengths laid out into a class system isn’t at all something we need, and all it would do is further inhibit dynamic roleplay, and probably cause a lot more bitching and whining because “waah im a knight i should be stronger than you peasant!”.

 

If I’m missing or misunderstood something, feel free to correct me. It’s 0445 and I’m right at the end of my shift, so I’m tired.

 

 

First point: you’re not going to be lifting up telephone poles while people are shooting arrows at you.  I get that there is a movie quality to LotC at times, but trying to set a concise point of balance with “fight or flight” is ridiculous.  If someone, out of a combat scenario, wants to lift an enormous boulder go for it (within reason).  

 

Second point: It’s not only about “serf strength class,” it’s a point of roleplay.  Commoners were not proficiently trained to use heavier armor classes.  If you read my entire post, you would have noticed the part where I addressed that most of the people who are actually interested in playing these “commoner” type people are ST actors.  The Serf-tier classification is also there for magic submissions that don’t quite want to toss out full physical strength, but would not want their players roleplaying as Paladin type figures.

 

Third point: Again, it’s not meant to create a class system for players to sit there and say “I am a Knight class or I am a Mage class,” it’s for reference for when the situation arises that a mage is trying to benchpress a boulder dropped on them that they can’t say “I’ve been weightlifting,” or with an Orc saying “I have blood rage and Orc strength, therefore I rip the gate off your wall.”

 

Fourth point: It is something we need due to the consistent number of times that there are issues where the LT or the Moderation team having to sift through outdated lore that vaguely points to how strong certain characters are.  I don’t think anyone is going to get a magic blacklist for being a mage and lifting 78lbs instead of 75.

 

5 minutes ago, BrandNewKitten said:

What good is this lore if it is used only to box people up with another reason to deny their roleplay and ban them if they disagree?

 

Because unless you’re playing a character from Game of Thrones, this won’t affect you and it gives structure to an otherwise gaping void of issues?

 

2 minutes ago, NotEvilAtAll said:

Serfs can’t wear plate armor? That’s objectively false. If the armor fits you properly, anybody can wear plate. It weighs more than Chain-mail, but the weight is spread across the whole body. 

 

It’s for roleplay reasons as much as it’s just a standard guideline for an inbetween of what an average person should be, and a classification for certain magics that don’t quite diminish strength.  I already mentioned it in my post that most players do not play as “commoners” they play as “knights.”  

 

---

 

As for the numbers themselves:

I took Dunstan’s suggested numbers, if you have better ones to offer I’ll look those over.  

[NotEvilAtAll 9926]

10 hours ago, Dardonas said:

Serf-tier beings can lift or pull up to 200lbs in combat, straining at the 180-200lb mark and requiring dedicated concentration.

If a Serf-tier character can lift up to 180lbs in combat without straining themselves, there’s no reason they’d be unable to use 55lb plate armor. This new lore would ban commoner characters from using armor they would realistically be able to wear. I don’t care if most players are 6 feet tall Knights instead of commoners, the commoners should still be able to use plate armor.

12 minutes ago, Dardonas said:

It’s for roleplay reasons as much as it’s just a standard guideline for an inbetween of what an average person should be, and a classification for certain magics that don’t quite diminish strength

“It’s just a guideline hurr durr” isn’t an excuse for inaccuracy. If this truly is a guideline, why is it posted under Lore Submissions instead of Roleplay Guides?

[_Jandy_ 3174]

The server can’t even enforce height, don’t even bother with this. You’ll end up arguing about weight, density and mass for blocks and pixels.

I dislike the 7 foot tall humans and the Elves who think they could do anything to an Orc but even attempting to enforce limits in the way you’re putting forth won’t do anything to solve the issue.

[dard 726]

9 minutes ago, NotEvilAtAll said:

If a Serf-tier character can lift up to 180lbs in combat without straining themselves, there’s no reason they’d be unable to use 55lb plate armor. This new lore would ban commoner characters from using armor they would realistically be able to wear. I don’t care if most players are 6 feet tall Knights instead of commoners, the commoners should still be able to use plate armor.

“It’s just a guideline hurr durr” isn’t an excuse for inaccuracy. If this truly is a guideline, why is it posted under Lore Submissions instead of Roleplay Guides?

 

Good feedback boss, yes, why didn’t I think that players couldn’t understand the concept of roleplaying – rather the playing of roles.  Too much for their small brains to comprehend that playing the role of a serf means that you would opt not to be wearing armor that is worth more than your stick hut! Foolish, how foolish of me truly! Thank you for showing me the light.  

6 minutes ago, _Jandy_ said:

The server can’t even enforce height, don’t even bother with this. You’ll end up arguing about weight, density and mass for blocks and pixels.

I dislike the 7 foot tall humans and the Elves who think they could do anything to an Orc but even attempting to enforce limits in the way you’re putting forth won’t do anything to solve the issue.

 

If I had known the solution to these things was not to bother coming up with a solution, I would have consulted you earlier.  Thank you, sir.