[Complete] Report (Roller_TS)

[tilly 3671]

Player(s) Involved

Roller_TS

 

Explanation

 

Hello Moderators:

 

It never feels good to put together one of these reports, but it has gotten to the point where this player needs either a formal warning, a villainy blacklist, or a ban. He has borderline harassed friends of mine and my community, players in other communities, and, in my opinion, generally has a bad take on what this server is about and the story we are trying to tell on LotC. Roller and I have a short history together: prior to the civil war in Petra, he was one of my best guys and I got along with him really well. Roller went out of his way to do a lot of good things in Petra during his time here as a Son of Petra, which is how I know he's capable of better. Since then, he has been obsessed with villainy RP, not just in Petra, but in the places listed above (those people will be posting on this report as well, and I ask for the moderators involved to weigh in on this player's conduct).

Today, I woke up to five people sending me this screenshot of Roller's Hitlist, see attached in spoiler below. On #2, he has listed my character that he wants to kill for IC and OOC reasons. Visibly, this is a clear breach of the divide between IC and OOC motives, and other people who are on that list have reached out to me to say that they're uncomfortable and do not want to have to keep going through these unpleasant, time consuming encounters with Roller. Personally when I see him running around, I feel like I have to log off or wall my character off somewhere safe in order to not have a bad encounter with him. It is generally an oppressive presence he carries lately when he's been doing his villainy RP, and it doesn't make for creative or constructive RP when the same guy comes around to harass you every few days with the same OP/power-gaming antics. As mentioned, this player has engaged in a lot of villainy RP as of late, and has a mentality that he must always win in each given scenario. When things do not go in his favor, he calls in mods and argues with them about the verdict on the matter, and has even been known to mod-shop/ask VIPs on the server to weigh in until he gets an answer that is in his favor. Frequently when RP has led to conflict with this player, he calls for CRP on the folks he's engaged with (which sucks when you're just trying to roleplay with your friends and only have a few hours to do it - it is a time-consuming thing to CRP). This isn't fun.
 

Spoiler

 

In summary, I'm really not here with the intention of 'getting Roller_TS banned GRRRR', but more so, I want for him to be held accountable for his actions and how they have effected the people both on his hitlist and off of it. A villainy blacklist, I think, would give Roller the chance to appreciate the server for the creative and wonderful RP it has to offer, rather than what he has to gain from inequitable RP. 

 

 

Relevant Material

Evidence

Twitch Channel - https://www.twitch.tv/chaoticroller
VOD 1 (From 4:39:16) - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1739303505
VOD 2 (Until 2 hours from start roughly) - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1739646238

 

Petra, Haense, Amaethea, Cobernic, Discord, Global OOC Chat

02/15/23

 

Evidence of uncooperative conduct.

Evidence

 


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Before posting on this thread, please review the Report Rules.

[Knight of Elken 488]

Hi. I'm Elk. Let me first start by saying that I do not wish Roller_TS to be banned.

 

I don’t know if this behavior is worthy of a ban. But I do think it’s been pretty weird, toxic, and certainly motivated from Out of Character reasons. Allow me to elaborate on why I believe he should receive either a formal warning, or a villainy blacklist.

 

I have been involved in two CRPs with him now. The first CRP was in Karosgrad, in which roll combat was utilized. I rolled a 20/20 critical strike with a warhammer. He rolled a 2/20 in defense. This, apparently, only caused light bruising to his character’s head, and a small gash, emoted as such. While I probably should have argued that, it was about 2 AM for me. So I let it slide. Everyone involved in the CRP was pretty tired by this point and wanted the CRP to end. Things ended pretty amicably for all parties, and I thought it was a pretty fun CRP that could lead to an interesting story as a result of the consequences. A story I’m following up on in an RP post I am writing. But I did take note of Roller underplaying damage.

 

After he, and his character’s group of villains chopped off the arm of my character’s liege lady in this initial fight in Karosgrad, my character set out to avenge this. My character happened to stumble upon Roller’s character after searching for the Harbingers, and CRP was engaged. The mode of combat selected was roll combat. It was a nightmare. What happened was about 4 to 5 hours of CRP, arguing the semantics of CRP damage and wounds, the rules of roll combat and perhaps the most damning, ignoring the verdict of poor frankdh who was brought in to moderate twice. See, my character successfully drove a longsword through Roller’s character’s head after tackling his to the ground. Twice. You would typically expect to be dead after the first time you get a longsword through the head. But Roller refused to let his character die, despite my successful rolls. Before emoting dying, which is what should have happened from my successful roll to drive a sword through his character’s head, Roller insisted in LOOC that we now utilize the damage system defined in the rules for roleplaying wounds. This had not been utilized earlier in combat, and wounds had been defined roughly by the numerical difference between rolls as most CRP tends to go.
 

And stupidly, I conceded to changing the rules because it was late. I also thought it might be against the rules to not do so, and that it might be able to more rigidly define how Roller’s character could die since he refused to die from wounds that should have killed. After rolling a 17/20 on his roll for damage, my character’s longsword through the head somehow did not kill his character and instead inflicted a heavy wound as defined in the roll combat CRP rules. After somehow drawing a dagger with a longsword lodged in his character’s eye, he was able to make a successful wound with a knife to my character’s neck. I once again rolled to stab his character through the head and succeeded once again. He insisted that it should be 3 hits to kill his character, despite the wounds being a ******* longsword through the head twice. It was at this point I had to try and modreq Roller’s character to finally be dead, and even had to go into Balian VC at around 12 AM to plead for frankdh to make another ruling while I knew they were occupied with other matters.

 

Thankfully, frankdh messaged me on Discord saying that Roller’s character was indeed dead from that action. And he refused to uphold that verdict. Through sheer desperation, he messaged anyone. He messaged frankdh on Discord, after they had gone to sleep. He messaged Orlanth. He messaged OOC chat. He messaged admins. He messaged GMs. He hilariously messaged VIPs. He simply refused to uphold this verdict. He desperately tried to have this verdict overruled. I was genuinely speechless, and completely optionless. One of my close friends in VC, Ragonath, was the only thing keeping me sane. And finally, after threatening to write up a ban report on him did he concede.
 

His character died, and we both messaged LOOC and had as much of a make-up as was possible. I told him that I wished we could be on good terms someday, and that I was sorry things got so heated. It ended with both of us saying peace, and I thought things ended okay after everything happened.
 

But it doesn’t even end there. Fast forward to the next day. The next morning, I woke up to messages from Roller on Discord, starting the debating again. The semantics of whether or not my character would be alive, why he wouldn’t have recognized him, why my character couldn’t take his head. He tried so hard to make it so that he would not face any consequences for his character’s actions since he would not PK and tried to remain completely anonymous despite having merked him. He opened a new modreq to have what was originally agreed upon changed – which was to have my character cauterize his wounds and seek out more serious aid. Okay, fine. I will admit that does seem reasonable even if it didn't feel that way at the time. 
 

frankdh presided over this ruling once again. They ruled that I was not allowed to take anything from Roller, and that I was required to find a valid way to have my character’s life-threatening wounds quickly healed in an attempt to appease both sides – which is a decision I can understand and respect. I personally did not agree with this ruling, as I thought the first longsword through the head should have killed him, effectively voiding any dagger wounds made to my character and thus giving me the ability to continue the story I was developing with Roller’s head and sword. But despite my desire to continue this story in the way I wanted to, I would instead uphold and respect that decision frank made. Voiding that dagger emote would have effectively ruled that Roller was powergaming by still remaining functional and combat effective after having a longsword lodged in his character's eye. But that is another debate entirely. I was required to find a valid way to heal my character’s life-threatening wounds as a result of the roll combat wounds my character received on the (really dumb) damage system, which was done through shamanistic healing in a town very close by to the CRP by my friend Bethinwonderland’s shaman character, accompanied by PrinceJose. Yada yada, not important for this report. And this is finally where I thought it wound end. I was relieved I wouldn’t have to continue debating Roller after many, many hours of such.
 

That was when I discovered Roller’s hilarious hitlist, as shown to me be by my friend Bethinwonderland late last night. It listed a number of individuals being targeted, with Tilly notably being targeted for ‘OOC reasoning.’ After being asked about it, Roller cites my character’s name being on that list as a result of the initial CRP I mentioned in Karosgrad at the start of this post. But curiously, none of the other participants in that CRP are on that list. Not Ragonath’s character Sangilak, teawithFrisket’s character Maria Weiss, or the two other participants whose usernames I unfortunately do not remember. Only mine. After we had a messy OOC fight, and CRP. And I killed his character. Strange.

 

I am really not trying to character smear here. But Roller_TS is a player who has proven that he will try and change the rules of CRP to their benefit, has demonstrated a pattern of powergaming by underplaying wounds, and most egregiously, ignores the verdicts of GMs to try and create new verdicts and only concedes after being threatened with a ban report. Roller has tried to intimidate me in LOOC by saying he was streaming on Twitch in our second CRP, harassed some of my friends in House Weiss by consistently messaging them despite being told to stop, and makes people feel uncomfortable by some of the messages and things he says as some of the others have reported in this post. He refuses to apologize for his shitty behavior, and I do not think that should go unnoticed either. 

 

It is as I said originally. I don’t think this is ban worthy. But maybe that opinion is too merciful. I agree with frankdh, and what they said to me in DMs – I think this is an extended case of bad manners. But this behavior needs to stop if he wishes to continue roleplaying on this server to any significant capacity. I feel that a villainy blacklist is more than warranted on account of his OOC targeting hitlist, as well as a formal warning to cease this toxic, winner’s mentality behavior at once. I do not think behavior like this has any place on LotC, and it is not conducive to the collaborative narrative we are trying to build on this server. If the mods see it fit to ban him then so be it. But that is what I think, and that is my experience with Roller. I would say it has been overall negative, and I hope he realizes the harm he has caused. 

 

I want to thank Tilly for bringing light to this topic. And the number of other people coming forward to comment their own experiences. I originally dropped my own ban report I was using to make Roller_TS comply with frankdh’s ruling as I said. But I now realize the importance in bringing light to this behavior, and not allowing it to persist on our server. And I hope the mods can see that too, and factor that into the verdict that results from this. 

[ibiou 1570]

Whilst I was in a RP situation with my child persona in Haense with two other individuals, Roller_TS had randomly came out of no where. You see, we had been in a small altercation with regards to some kids and were trying to leave the capital, but a guard had stopped us midway. One of the individuals offered to use flash powder, and with our characters naive of what it can do, we used on the guard. Roller's persona had randomly decided to be apart of this conflict - jumping down from a ledge as he was unblinded - and beginning to chase us with a dagger. Mind you: all three of us are playing child personas. I didn't have an issue with this at first, but the flash powder was not used in a situation regarding CRP so we would of been able to flee the scene with no qualms.

However, Roller instead kept the other two behind and I had gotten away. I was DM'd by a friend that he was causing issues so I came back. He kept insisting he wanted to CRP us - three children - and that he specified he particularly wanted to kill children. This part made me uncomfortable and I was not in agreement that we needed to redo the entire scene so he could attack them. We redid it anyways, someone saw and rang the bell, and the BSK of Haense came to aid. Yet, he was still stubborn. It seemed like he only wanted to CRP with us because we couldn't fight back physically. At the time I did not think to collect proof on the matter as I thought this situation would be a one-time thing, but it is apparent this behaviour has continued. There are a few witnesses to the incident however who can back up my statements. I roleplayed the consequences of what happened (a near-attack on my persona, how my character reacted to it) and had no issue. It is character development on my behalf and any roleplay is good roleplay. A child acts dramatically, and a lot of the time you are not supposed to take their actions such as a ludicrous statement that has been blown out of proportion seriously. My character had made a post regarding her attack and to this Roller replied:

I took this as a dismissal for his actions and therefore, him just trying to twist the narrative. I don't exactly mind this, but his hit list was revealed a few days later. The 'Children of Haense' is listed due to this implication, but what is most disturbing is that he lists it with "mild harm". This is all because a child wrote a post saying the truth, or twisted truth - that his persona tried to attack my own and therefore she was making his actions publicly known. This is also backed up by the DMs between him and Tilly. 

I hope that this can at least be a wake-up call that you don't need to take things necessarily serious all of the time, and that IC intentions are not always OOC intentions. I would of honestly been fine with this whole ordeal and listed it as a one-time incident had this not all come into light & his attitude during the situation itself.

[farmerclown 3911]

Normally I do not get involved in these sorts of things to avoid drama, however after a situation that occured last night, it is unavoidable that I bring attention to this sort of thing. I first came across Roller pre-Petra conflict and relationships were amicable, even during the conflict of Petra despite his belligerent behavior of following me around during conflict cooldowns and the likes despite the number of times myself (on my alt, and eventually on my main when he came to Celia'nor after the conflict) and other Petran guards had killed his Petran character, I remained as friendly as possible OOCly. Considering he is newer to the server, I did not think much of the behavior that was that of a typical newer player, even being nice to him on my main account as well [OOCly] when we had interactions with each other RPly that was conflict oriented due to Celia'nor being allies with Renilde. In fact, I was even happy to see he made an elf in my vassal Vikela. Though, at a point it is quite disheartening to see myself called a "b*tch" on his stream in front of over twenty people and get off scot free, especially after multiple instances such as the ones above of him being proven to be OOCly oriented with his actions against those that are heavily involved in the Petran conflict. I have two characters in Petra, Mariana Antoinette d'Azor and Charlotte Roberta Petra, who are also vastly different than my NL character, Valyris. Mariana was not involved in the Civil War due to her growing up around those sorts of things until it was sorted so she disowned her son for murdering his wife after the fact, and Charlotte Roberta was the one to kill him or be involved in his capture a few times during the War. Neither of these characters are my elf, who he attempted to assassinate last night and his reasoning he stated on stream word for word was, "I do have a reason to kill this b*tch, I do have a reason. She gave the heir to d'Azor to someone else." [Linked here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1741582769?t=02h48m17s Mods handled this and have a copy of this interaction so there is no need to delete such from the public Twitch Channel.]

 

That which has nothing to do with my elf character, attempting to assassinate her simply because of my actions on another persona, along with the character bleed into OOC where I am called a b*tch on a public stream are frankly ridiculous and entirely disrespectful. I have done my best to remain amicable OOCly and thought we were fine from an OOC standpoint despite the hostilities that were made from a rather large storyline on the server, yet this is just simply unacceptable. There is a line which should be drawn for excusing the actions of a new player and straight toxicity towards others. I do hope he is able to learn from this and become better, though I believe that a break is in order or at least a staff member teaching him to differentiate between IC and OOC. I do not deserve to be called names, and no one else involved in the Petran conflict deserves to be belligerently harassed with either villainy rp or RP that is driven by one's ooc opinions. 

[SethWolf 1382]

I would also like to come in and state that Roller_TS has been very nice to me. He has always been good to me, and every interaction with him I've had, he's been kind, courteous, and willing to lose. However, I myself witnessed how mean he behaved to certain people outline in this post on his streams. (I'd learned that he streamed on twitch due to him advertising such so gave him a watch, and was frankly very disheartened.)

 Frankly I was a bit shocked, as my experiences have only been good with him. However, calling people names on twitch because you don't like someone and making an ooc hitlist of people to mess with isnt really conducive to rp in the slightest, it's just plain old bad manners. I have no part in this quarrel, and harbor no ill will to him. I've seen that he can be a very great person. However, he can also not be a very great person, and be just plain o' mean sometimes. 

I don't want him gone either, no, not in the slightest. No one likes to lose, but we all need to learn how. 

 

That's all I gotta say. 

 

[ChaoticRoller 591]

Hey Tilly. I'm hurt that this has gotten to this extent, but understand you are upset. Ultimately I think youre resorting to making this a public forum report is indicative of how this has gotten out of hand. While you did reach out, it seemed you were doing so not from a point of fairness, but from one of anger and over-investment into lotc (something which I recognize I often bear as well). I do not know the best path forwards here, nor would I pretend that I do, but I feel like raising this topic in the aim that either moderation or the community will come to hate me is not how I personally would resolve it.

 

At the end of the day though, I recognize what I believe was RP motivated, could easily be viewed by someone so invested as OOC motivated. I am hopeful we can come to an amicable conclusion, or at least be more civil with each other going forwards.

[VoxyNoir 807]

28 minutes ago, ChaoticRoller said:

Hey Tilly. I'm hurt that this has gotten to this extent, but understand you are upset. Ultimately I think youre resorting to making this a public forum report is indicative of how this has gotten out of hand. While you did reach out, it seemed you were doing so not from a point of fairness, but from one of anger and over-investment into lotc (something which I recognize I often bear as well). I do not know the best path forwards here, nor would I pretend that I do, but I feel like raising this topic in the aim that either moderation or the community will come to hate me is not how I personally would resolve it.

 

At the end of the day though, I recognize what I believe was RP motivated, could easily be viewed by someone so invested as OOC motivated. I am hopeful we can come to an amicable conclusion, or at least be more civil with each other going forwards.

You're not hurt from seeing these reaction, but you are hurt because you got caught by many others who are willing to speak up about your behavior. It wasn't just tilly who has brought up concerns about you, it is many others who shared similar experience towards you who have spoken out. Those who saw your livestream were disgusted by it, and I don't think you are remorseful at all. Instead of owning up and apologizing for your actions, you literally talked down to tilly and tried to gaslight her into believing that she is 'over-invested' in this conflict when you have four days of playtime on the server yourself and seem to take everything in RP personally.

 

"I am hopeful we can come to an amicable conclusion, or at least be more civil with each other going forwards."

 

I am not sure if you've read the grievances that others have replied to this post with, but you were far from civil or amicable. At least acknowledge those who has brought up their concerns about your poor behavior before you tell others to all act civil in the same breath that you're telling someone their issues with you are invalid. Roller, you really need to step back and take accountability for your actions, because this behavior is really unacceptable.

 

I have no involvement in this but I cba to see such a subpar response to legitimate grievances brought against you.

I mean that the kindest way possible, at least acknowledges other who share concerns about you, it's not just from Tilly. There's more.

[Greehn 1849]

56 minutes ago, ChaoticRoller said:

Hey Tilly. I'm hurt that this has gotten to this extent, but understand you are upset. Ultimately I think youre resorting to making this a public forum report is indicative of how this has gotten out of hand. While you did reach out, it seemed you were doing so not from a point of fairness, but from one of anger and over-investment into lotc (something which I recognize I often bear as well). I do not know the best path forwards here, nor would I pretend that I do, but I feel like raising this topic in the aim that either moderation or the community will come to hate me is not how I personally would resolve it.

 

At the end of the day though, I recognize what I believe was RP motivated, could easily be viewed by someone so invested as OOC motivated. I am hopeful we can come to an amicable conclusion, or at least be more civil with each other going forwards.

I don't think you get the point of the post. From the looks of it, Tilly already tried reaching out to you before, to which you offered no sort of willingness to actually set thing straight and rather argue against it.

You may say that your actions were RP motivated, but your actions prove otherwise. To go to the extent of creating a notepad for your "in RP" hitlist and having an OOC reason to target someone's character (Literally typing "OOC reason" beside someone's name) proves my exact point. To add to this, I believe you even switched someone's character to a "maybe" (whatever that means) after messaging them for a bit in the same vod that you created the hitlist on. Furthermore, I and many others have seen your constant jabs towards Petra in the #OOC chat. It doesn't help that you are constantly in Petra to either stir up conflict or just to do villainy. (There is nothing wrong with villainy of course, but it just seems constant with Petra when it comes to you.) Obviously your previous Petran character would have lots of motive to dislike the place, but it just comes off as obsessive at this point.

I am unsure if you recognize that your own over-investment into LOTC is a good thing or a bad thing, but I think it is laughable to try and use that as a point against Tilly, especially when she is not constantly going out of her way to try and spite you and your experiences on the server and rather using that "over-investment" into attempting the furthering of her own nation.

The point of this post (I assume) was to bring light to your actions so that you may actually take them into consideration instead of just brushing it off in DMs as it seems you previously did when Tilly tried reaching out. And it seems to be working seeing that you now want to come to an "amicable conclusion". 

 I believe you can be a good lad as said in @SethWolf's testament, I just think you may have taken a wrong turn somewhere. 

[GgDionne 42]

This is a big server, with lots of different opinions and views. Words themselves are generalizations, and we will never entirely agree what is and is not acceptable.

I feel like I've been in a very similar position to roller, both personally, and here on this very server. Based on the evidence provided in the original post, there is very much cause for disagreement. Each of you seem to respect each other, and recognize each other as people of good character, but a barrier has been reached that cannot be solved independently.

 

I don't think any form of punishment is necessary here, but it does seem like a good option to have a third party step in to help guide things to a peaceful conclusion.

I'm sure there will be a lot of mixed feelings no matter the outcome, so let's work together towards a compromise in which everyone will be able to coexist.

 

And to roller specifically, please do not take this personally. I have witnessed first hand how strong, respectful, and kind this community is. We're all wishing you the best, and it is nobody's fault that things have come to be this way. Don't forget what's important to you, remember why you play on this server, and be willing to sacrifice your own enjoyment for the enjoyment of everybody involved.

 

This is only possible because we work together.

 

 

[Crevel 4727]

I was very mixed as to whether or not I should make a response. I haven't interacted with Roller personally, but I think from his streams and how he presents himself publicly is enough to make some sort of judgement. I don't think Roller is being malicious for the sake of being malicious. That being said, I do not think his behaviour was really appropriate.

 

I think for newer players, it can also be quite difficult to distinguish the nuances between OOC and RP which are essential for making an enjoyable experience on the server. When players fail to differentiate OOC from RP, there can be real issues like the ones here. In a roleplay setting, especially one like this, there are no winners or losers. Every character has strengths and weaknesses, every character is prone to being hurt, and every character is prone to dying. While it may feel like you need to win all the time, there is more enjoyment and character development that comes from your character losing but being able to live with and/or overcome any long-lasting effects that come with their loss. If you focus too much on your character needing to win, then you're just going to stress yourself out in conflictual situations. It's a problem that some older players have difficulty with as well. However, it is your responsibility as a player to do your best to ensure that you recognise the difference because the enjoyment of this server ultimately comes from our experience with other players and if all players are able to recognise the difference between OOC and RP, it's a good environment.

 

It is also important to recognise that playing the server for days on end is incredibly unhealthy... mostly for your mental health. Not only does there come a point where you constantly think about the server and dream about it, but you will become very attached to the character/s that you're playing and what you're doing which can tie into what I wrote before about feeling the need for them to win. While there are already risks to being on your computer all the time (eye strain, headaches, difficulty sleeping, etc.) which I recommend everyone looks into because they're important to recognise since our whole community is online based, I want to focus on the issue of being online for long hours to the point of it going into the early morning. On the timeline of the two linked streams, you were online for 13 hours at the very least. Your Lunar Client playtime said 16 hours and 30 minutes by the time that you started the stream, but it also includes when you just have the client open so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that most of those 16 hours at the very least were not spent on the server. Your stream started at 6:16pm and you kept playing until 7:19am. The large issue with playing for very long periods into the early morning and what not is that your inhibitions are messed up because you're severely tired which in other words means that you are very prone to doing dumb things because your brain is not getting the energy it needs. This can range from brain fog, general confusion / forgetfulness, misconstruing what someone is saying, and severe things like getting angry at people or doing things that you wouldn't otherwise do. Ultimately, we're all affected differently but regardless of how it shows in our actions it will be unhealthy no matter what. It is very important that you learn to limit your play time and make sure that you are well-rested so that you are in full control of yourself.

 

Regardless of what happens with this report Roller, I recommend that you take a short break from the server until you develop some healthy sleeping habits because your mental health is the most important thing. It will also give you the opportunity to have some space away from your character. Even if you don't, try to get into the habit of making sure that you differentiate between OOC and RP. Just because someone may have acted in a mean way towards you in-character, it does not mean they harbour the same feelings towards you OOCly. There are quite a few players on the server that I don't like for varying reasons, however I know that I can be mature and be the bigger person by acting respectfully towards them in roleplay and OOC. Sometimes being respectful can even ease any tensions that may have been there, and a friendship can start from it too. I've also found that experiencing different communities instead of playing a set of characters surrounded by the same group is a good way to escape the close-minded nature that LotC inadvertently causes because of playerbases. There's nothing more enlightening than hearing the different perspectives of other communities on a particular topic or issue and then learning from it.

 

I wish you and everyone else in this thread the best. Good luck to anyone who actually read it all.

[itdontmatta 7192]

I have come to a verdict, @tilly@ChaoticRoller:

- Aldotte 'Harbinger of Fear' has been permakilled by the Administration. The persona has been deleted, along with the items and mina associated with it. The "hitlist" should no longer exist, because the character no longer exists.

- Roller will be given a 2 week ban. This is a ban that does not have to be appealed.

 

@ChaoticRollerplease try to self-reflect during your time off the server. I was very disappointed to see the aggressive response to Tilly's concerns. Please reach out to me on discord if you have any further questions (itdontmatta#3889).