[✗] [Amendment] Animatii; Clockwork Artifice - No More Combat Pets

[PrimnyaQuorum 4008]

 

Preface:

Spoiler

Given the substantial proposed changes to the function of Machine Spirits, players who reside in a Machine Spirit without a FA should be given an option to revert to their prior race, or continue as a Machine Spirit without any forms of Reincarnation. Additionally, Any Animii Crafters who have a TA or have learned Machine Spirits should have [1] OOC week post- acceptance of this amendment to drop Animati or unlearn the knowledge of Machine Spirits before being stuck with the PK Clause. Those who reside within a Machine Spirit and hold a FA/TA in Animati may not drop the Feat.

 

SERVANTS & PETS

- Tier 3 Animii companions follow all rules for pets in combat, and may not exceed the size of a Golden Retriever. They are relatively fragile, owing to their smaller size and more primitive minds, and will otherwise act much as a mundane critter would. 

- Should one connect to any magic while utilizing a T3 Animii Combat Pet, that pet will be rendered inert until [2] emotes after disconnection.

- Outside of combat, a magic user who connects to magic will cause their T3 Animii Companions to go totally inert - unmoving and unresponsive to commands, making them totally immobile and useless until [2] Emotes after disconnection. 

- T4+ Animii Companions do not suffer from this effect.

- An Inert Animii companion may not be utilized to a Tinkerer’s benefit while under this effect, in combat or otherwise.

- Beings and Descendants who are otherwise considered always connected are unable to utilize T3 Animii Combat Pets.

 

MACHINE SPIRIT

- Upon willfully learning and/or displaying knowledge of the process of creating a Machine Spirit, an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause where upon their next death, should they not have a means of non-monk revival or spare Machine Spirit Husks for reincarnation, they will PK. Executions or Death resulting from or following PvP is not included, within reason - one may not vote for PvP/Mechanical Combat to escape the clause.

- “Willingly Learning” includes non-Animii Crafters who willingly learn and/or utilize the knowledge to achieve a goal, such as willingly seeking out Machine Spirit Husks to destroy, boasting of the knowledge of the process of creating Machine Spirit Husks, etc.

- If one is unwillingly exposed to the knowledge of Machine Spirits, they may choose to not hear/ignore the knowledge.

- Attempting to force the knowledge of creating Machine Spirit Husks onto someone in an effort to force a PK-Clause onto them is grounds for a Blacklist from Animati and/or further ST Intervention.

- Explicit, clear OOC consent must be gathered before information regarding Machine Spirit Husk creation is considered to be passed on in a “willing” manner.

- Machine Spirits Husks are ONLY capable of being made for the Animii Crafter themselves and are limited to [4] per Animii Crafter in addition to their current body. Should an Animii Crafter store more than four Machine Spirits Husks, the Soul will link only to the three most healthy and irrevocably lose its path to any additional Machine Spirits Husks. 

 

Purpose:

In line with the other Amendment I submitted - Machine Spirits serve as a non-monk, non-CA revival method. There is no reason the monks would care what the method of revival is, only that one knows a method to cheat death and thus is shunned of their revival by the Monks. 

 

In addition, the Combat Summon rule is derived from Core Alchemy III, where one must be disconnected from a magic for 2 emotes before they are able to prime a potion - it has been carried down, to prevent the stacking of various Magics and Combat Pets. This change does not force a PK Clause onto all who learn Animati, but it does place a cost on fully learning the Alchemical practice and teaching it.

 

Beholder, WightTrash, transiconbridget - Consultation

 

[lemonke 6014]

29 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Upon willfully learning and/or displaying knowledge of the process of creating a Machine Spirit, an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause where upon their next death, should they not have a means of non-monk revival or spare Machine Spirit Husks for reincarnation, they will PK. 

I don't know if it is actually in the main lore but I don't think machine spirit should have a similar clause to tawkin. Especially with many people having already an established knowledge of it iirc. You'll just make it more limiting.

[ShinyB 567]

1 hour ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

- Outside of combat, a magic user who connects to magic will cause their T3 Animii Companions to go totally inert - unmoving and unresponsive to commands, making them totally immobile and useless until [2] Emotes after disconnection. 

I don't see why T3 Animii companions need to remain inert if magic is being cast while outside of combat? Let my goofy little machine pet walk around while I magically clean my house!

[PrimnyaQuorum 4008]

2 minutes ago, ShinyB said:

27 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

- Outside of combat, a magic user who connects to magic will cause their T3 Animii Companions to go totally inert - unmoving and unresponsive to commands, making them totally immobile and useless until [2] Emotes after disconnection. 

I don't see why T3 Animii companions need to remain inert if magic is being cast while outside of combat? Let my goofy little machine pet walk around why I magically clean my house!

 

I stewed on this alot - this was the most consistent redline I could think of to prevent the overarching problem of stacking a easy to get and more durable CRP pet atop magics and CAs. In the future, I think a amendment allowing more non-combative freedom would be great, I just couldn't find a good way to write it in and keep everything consistent. I do support the idea, however!

 

11 minutes ago, lemonke said:

29 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Upon willfully learning and/or displaying knowledge of the process of creating a Machine Spirit, an individual is subject to a harsh PK clause where upon their next death, should they not have a means of non-monk revival or spare Machine Spirit Husks for reincarnation, they will PK. 

I don't know if it is actually in the main lore but I don't think machine spirit should have a similar clause to tawkin. Especially with many people having already an establish knowledge of it iirc. You'll just make it more limiting.

 

The preface specifies this, but those who "know" of such and do not currently reside in a Machine Spirit with the FA can opt to forgot such knowledge.

 

Machine Spirits are a method of non-monk revival, all of which either require you to OOCly consent to being turned into that CA and contains its own PK Clause, or has a PK clause for knowing of the process, regardless of intent of means to use it. I do not see a good reason why such a exception should exist.

[lemonke 6014]

7 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

I stewed on this alot - this was the most consistent redline I could think of to prevent the overarching problem of stacking a easy to get and more durable CRP pet atop magics and CAs. In the future, I think a amendment allowing more non-combative freedom would be great, I just couldn't find a good way to write it in and keep everything consistent. I do support the idea, however!

 

 

The preface specifies this, but those who "know" of such and do not currently reside in a Machine Spirit with the FA can opt to forgot such knowledge.

 

Machine Spirits are a method of non-monk revival, all of which either require you to OOCly consent to being turned into that CA and contains its own PK Clause, or has a PK clause for knowing of the process, regardless of intent of means to use it. I do not see a good reason why such a exception should exist.

 The problem that comes from it is that Tawkin offers a complete disguise change to make you look like a normal person. It's way stronger than machine spirit since such a CA would always have a metal-ish figure and is barely played as it is.

 

Furthermore, machine spirit have already some big limitation over magic than tawkin klones IMO. You are not going to fix the problem by putting it at par with klones in terms of harsh redlines.

 

And lore-wise Tawkin is more "dark" since you are swapping bodies rather than putting your soul into a tin can. Meh, I'm not an ST–so review isn't mine to take but as I said the CA is already not that played. You are just going to overkill it with this rule.

[ichigomaster98 966]

This seems mostly unneeded, and possibly biased based on the title.

Why should bardmancy, housemagery, blood magic, necromancy, mysticism, etc disable a machine pet? I could understand voidal magic and maybe deity magics interrupting its function, but all magic seems unnecessarily excessive. The pets are not being primed in the same way potions are and are generally less powerful than grenades.

 

As for machine spirits, I've always thought it a bit terrible that you are subjected to a PK clause simply by having the knowledge of the creation of klones for example, and that it should only activate upon making one (or being in one as machine spirits currently are iirc), otherwise you're basically forced to soft-shelf your persona until you've made more than one. Machine spirits also seem to just be worse klones, and punishing them as harshly as klones seems sorta lame.

Furthermore, an animatii-ist not being allowed to seek out machine spirit husks to destroy seems unnecessarily restrictive for seemingly no reason.

The only two options of either never knowing machine spirits or being forced to drop animatii entirely if you already know it seems not very good either. Perhaps an option to 'forget' machine spirits but keep animatii would be better, if this is accepted at all.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4008]

2 minutes ago, ichigomaster98 said:

This seems mostly unneeded, and possibly biased based on the title.

Why should bardmancy, housemagery, blood magic, necromancy, mysticism, etc disable a machine pet? I could understand voidal magic and maybe deity magics interrupting its function, but all magic seems unnecessarily excessive. The pets are not being primed in the same way potions are and are generally less powerful than grenades.

 

As for machine spirits, I've always thought it a bit terrible that you are subjected to a PK clause simply by having the knowledge of the creation of klones for example, and that it should only activate upon making one (or being in one as machine spirits currently are iirc), otherwise you're basically forced to soft-shelf your persona until you've made more than one. Machine spirits also seem to just be worse klones, and punishing them as harshly as klones seems sorta lame.

Furthermore, an animatii-ist not being allowed to seek out machine spirit husks to destroy seems unnecessarily restrictive for seemingly no reason.

The only two options of either never knowing machine spirits or being forced to drop animatii entirely if you already know it seems not very good either. Perhaps an option to 'forget' machine spirits but keep animatii would be better, if this is accepted at all.

 

Core Alchemy III does not differentiate between any form of magical energy, and so I carried down that redline. The active utilization of any form of magic should disrupt the Animii Pet, regardless of origin, the same way a potion cannot be primed if any magical energy interferes.

 

I think the idea of the PK Clause only working upon the successful creation of a Husk/Klone is a neat idea, but probably one ripe for abuse. If you know your going to get killed, just break your own husk/Pygmy and avoid the clause or something. I don't think different rules should apply to different methods of reincarnation, though - they're both alchemical means of cheating death, after all. The Portion of what constitutes 'willingly learning' the process was carried over from my other amendment, under the principle that if you willingly engage with Machine Spirits in any aspect - creating them, destroying them, spreading word of them, etc - you should be subject to the same PK Clause, though that was followed with a redline to protect people from being forced-taught the knowledge to PK them.

 

I think the part about having a option to drop Machine Spirit Knowledge (and thus a TA if one has one) is probably a better workaround then the original one and something I'll add - though the rest I'm pretty confident on.

[ShinyB 567]

4 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I stewed on this alot - this was the most consistent redline I could think of to prevent the overarching problem of stacking a easy to get and more durable CRP pet atop magics and CAs. In the future, I think a amendment allowing more non-combative freedom would be great, I just couldn't find a good way to write it in and keep everything consistent. I do support the idea, however!

My suggestion for a redline would be something along the lines of "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, while in combat, since a mage must focus on their connection and on combat, they are unable to also give commands to their companion, rendering them inert until [2] emotes after disconnection." or "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, when a mage connects to cast a spell combative in nature, the companion is disrupted and is rendered inert until [2] emotes after disconnection."

I don't really think there needs to be much of an explanation for why non-combat spells or spell cast outside of combat do not disrupt Animii companions as there's not much of an explanation for why a connection to any form of magic would render a companion inert in the first place, let alone why T4+ companions are immune to this effect.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4008]

1 minute ago, ShinyB said:

31 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I stewed on this alot - this was the most consistent redline I could think of to prevent the overarching problem of stacking a easy to get and more durable CRP pet atop magics and CAs. In the future, I think a amendment allowing more non-combative freedom would be great, I just couldn't find a good way to write it in and keep everything consistent. I do support the idea, however!

My suggestion for a redline would be something along the lines of "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, while in combat, since a mage must focus on their connection and on combat, they are unable to also give commands to their companion, rendering them inert until [2] emotes after disconnection." or "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, when a mage connects to cast a spell combative in nature, the companion is disrupted and is rendered inert until [2] emotes after disconnection."

I don't really think there needs to be much of an explanation for why non-combat spells or spell cast outside of combat do not disrupt Animii companions as there's not much of an explanation for why a connection to any form of magic would render a companion inert in the first place, let alone why T4+ companions are immune to this effect.

 

Probably Ironically, T4 Companions to my knowledge are non-combative and so I excluded them. It could be argued humanoid-size Animii are resistant to the effects of magic while T3 are not. I'm going to think over the redline for non-combative T3 pets and change it if I think I can 

[Holyland 3651]

goodbye combat pets

[Operator_Bugman 347]

I have many opinions on this but I'll stick to just a few to not create a massive unreadable paragraph.

 

Servants and pets, rather than being disabled due to any magic use, should be disabled due to voidal magic use. There is precedent for that in machine spirits being weakened by the use of voidal magics. That and pets of any Tier aren't really 'bound' to the user unless you have an obedience module and thats not exactly soul magic. I don't know why magic being cast by the user should shut them off. Should have any magic cast in say, a 3x3 disables it instead of magic cast by the user.

 

Machine Spirits, you've seen roughly the same opinions from people above so I won't repeat those statements 1-1. Having a clear definition of what constitutes an actual dead & loss of a body is nice to have. I do have some qualms about the limit of 3 machine spirits only. If you are trying to make it more similar to klones you should realize how wildly different the two methods are. Klones are a much more time consuming method, you aren't going to be hopping bodies all the time considering the quality you can put into them without a MArt. Although they each last much longer. Machine Spirits on the other hand can be made in roughly a week at best or two without help. Though they are much more simple, you won't really get a bunch of 'mutations' put into each spirit so in exchange for quality you have quantity.

 

As it stands, wonderful formatting. Good to see some thought put into the process, but personally not a fan.

[PrinceJose270 1211]

On mobile and almost everyone said the same thing so ill keep it short.

 

No point in doing combat pets dirty. They are already hard nerfed as is and made everything a retextured horse or a retextured combat dog. Having it disable just ruins it more.

 

So many people already learned animii. Essentally saying "ha get pked" without the alternative to forget what is already learn wothout dropping the whole magic is useless.

 

Also yes. Machine spirits are barely played. Contructs in general that arent atronachs arent really played. Making a clause that only makes people more deterred from it wont make the feat healthy.

[Jihnyny 5233]

shit take

 

all i have to say

[Xein000 264]

6 hours ago, ShinyB said:

My suggestion for a redline would be something along the lines of "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, while in combat, since a mage must focus on their connection and on combat, they are unable to also give commands to their companion, rendering them inert until [2] emotes after disconnection." or "-Outside of combat, a mage's connection to their magic does not disrupt a T3 Animii companion's ability to move or listen to commands. However, when a mage connects to cast a spell combative in nature, the companion is disrupted and is rendered inert until [2] emotes after disconnection."

 

I don't know all, but my character has an Anmii companion (if I remember correct) that can talk and think on it's own (depending on what it has learned from previous fights that it has been with about during it's life time since being created), and my character use magic during fights with them by their side. I still have much to learn how to use them but I'm happy that I got them as it helps my character out at need, even if it get hurt and I need another one that is stronger build since my current one can't do much but try and distract (for the most part) others and attack non amoured people/beings. Each time they are damaged/killed I must find someone to heal/repair them and that can cost a bit depending on what price someone have. And from just 1 or a few hits they can be easily taken down and out of commission during a fight.

 

 

7 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

- Should one connect to any magic while utilizing a T3 Animii Combat Pet, that pet will be rendered inert until [2] emotes after disconnection.

- Outside of combat, a magic user who connects to magic will cause their T3 Animii Companions to go totally inert - unmoving and unresponsive to commands, making them totally immobile and useless until [2] Emotes after disconnection. 

- T4+ Animii Companions do not suffer from this effect.

- An Inert Animii companion may not be utilized to a Tinkerer’s benefit while under this effect, in combat or otherwise.

- Beings and Descendants who are otherwise considered always connected are unable to utilize T3 Animii Combat Pets.

 

If being outside of combat and magic is used in some way or by someone or something, wouldn't that mean that the pets/servants would be Inert all the time then, whenever something magic is near them, or there is an active magic? And how would they even be able to be used during combat in that case? (Suddenly I wonder how they can even be active in time for combat if they couldn't do anything before the combat? Hm..) Also how will me as a player be aware that someone is using magic that makes my pat/servant unable to do anything, and then how far or close would they have to be to magic before they are suddenly Inert? And can I still use them for combat at all or not?

[SteppeNomad 1624]

It is needlessly restrictive, if animii pets are meant to roughly the same as a trained animal, and they arent allowed to have any particularly beyond-normal attacks or effects, why do you want to limit them against magic? In-lore, magic equipped with machines will make the machines start to faulter, but only against smoggers is magic casting something that disables any machine. This amendment was made by a magick man huffing wizard powder

 

As machine spirits have the option for wizards to use them, it is also not very logical that battle pets or companions would be disabled just for being near magic. AT MOST, you might have their durability reduced, but whats the point or trying to nerf animii pets further than a halfling with a pack of breeding attack weasels.

 

While the idea of cognitohazards are funny, machine husks have literally been openly debated upon by the church, and many nations individually. Knowledge of them bringing about a pk clause is not necessary in this case, when logically in-universe, of course you could use machine husks (owyn was augmented as a cyborg hyperwarrior)

Edited September 23, 2024 by SteppeNomad