[✗] Spam-Test Amendment #1: Corcitură Edition.

[Morigung-oog 5697]

 

Corcitura Salt Testing

 

OLD:

 

Spoiler

Salt (in pure granular form or at most diluted as saltwater; not simple sand or salted foods) will will boil the blood of corcituri, causing it to fizz and steam whilst shooting searing pain that feels akin to being set on fire through any wound it’s poured into whilst exposure to the eyes can blind corcituri for up to a narrative hour. Weapons treated with salt will leave fizzling wounds on corcituri who have suffered skin-breaking blows, causing them to suffer in a similar fashion to undead victims of aurum weaponry. The presence of refined salt not used to draw cuts or mixed with their blood will be at most uncomfortable to Corcitori, having no impact on their bare skin. 

 

NEW:

 

Spoiler

Salt (in pure granular form or at most diluted as saltwater; not simple sand or salted foods) will will boil the blood of corcituri, causing it only to fizz and steam if an a deep [non-minor] wound is created whilst shooting searing pain that feels akin to being set on fire through any wound it’s poured into whilst exposure to the eyes can blind corcituri for up to a narrative hour . Weapons treated with salt will leave fizzling wounds on corcituri who have suffered moderate blows [stabs, deep cuts, etc], causing them to suffer in a similar fashion to undead victims of aurum weaponry. The presence of refined salt not used to draw cuts or mixed with their blood will be at most uncomfortable to Corcitori, having no impact on their bare skin. 

 

In a combative encounter, a strike with a salt-coated weapon temporarily stalls the corcituri accelerated healing ability by 1 OOC day.

 

New Redline:

-In this case a ‘moderate blow’ or ‘non-minor wound’ is classified as a stab with a knife, or a cut considerable enough to require stitches. This is to counter the common IC tactic of ‘pinprick testing’

- Pouring just a few specks of salt into a corcitura's eyes is not enough to induce the blindness effect. Half a teaspoon full is required, which will also pose a risk to a non-corcitura's eyesight as well.

 

 

Explanation:
 

Aurum was nerfed because it was being used to spam-test creatures, which proved detrimental to Darkspawn communities given how easy it is to gain auric weapons. Salt is no exception, and is arguably more common and poses the same issue as aurum once did. I’ve seen certain communities spam the use of salt, which again greatly limits the potential of the FA. I would also like to add that a similar rule exists for CAs such as Frost Witches, where their slush puppy blood can’t be revealed without a significant cut made. Because this is a pseudo-buff to Corticura, I also added in an extra weakness to balance it all out a little bit more which helps justify a Vampire’s aversion to salt all the more.

 

Edit: Somebody warned me about salt-in-eye testing but salt in the eyes can blind most people too I did my irl research lol.

 

[Jaslaw 602]

The vampires are the weakest of the CA's by far, coming with only downsides besides one ability that lets them hide a bit better in darkness and having twice their life longevity. So being so easyly found out isnt quite fair for them when they already are this bad in their curent state.

It also fully undermines any investigation RP when you can just go ''Yo! Use salt and get em!'' and it has no cost behind it. Lets be honest as of now the only CA that can be easily found with testing are the poor vampires so #JusticeForTheLeaches

[Morigung-oog 5697]

2 minutes ago, Jaslaw said:

The vampires are the weakest of the CA's by far, coming with only downsides besides one ability that lets them hide a bit better in darkness and having twice their life longevity. So being so easyly found out isnt quite fair for them when they already are this bad in their curent state.

It also fully undermines any investigation RP when you can just go ''Yo! Use salt and get em!'' and it has no cost behind it. Lets be honest as of now the only CA that can be easily found with testing are the poor vampires so #JusticeForTheLeaches

 

Exactly what I thought when I was writing this. They're so often denied access to regions because they can be outed so easily. I'm hoping this'll encourage Corc to reach out to communities more often so that good-faith conflicts and storylines can be more easily maintained!

[Xarkly 17299]

While I definitely appreciate the perspective, I really strongly disagree with this amendment.

 

As a brief contextual note for this - I have a Corcitura character. I don't play him actively at the moment, but my point is my objection here is also grounded in experience. 

 

There's a few elements as to why an amendment like this would be a really bad move for role-play. For starters, I want to clarify that since MadOne PKd his pontiff, 'sporadic' testing has become a lot less common. Even in the height of MadOne's Canonist inquisitions, sporadic or 'spam' testing was mainly prevalent in places which were very publicly targeted by inquisitions (i.e., Kaethul, Hohkmat, etc.) and these inquisitions were generally extremely telegraphed by public treaties. In short, if you were caught in a sporadic test in a place like Kaethul, generally you only had yourself to blame because you deliberately put yourself in a situation where you were likely to be discovered. This isn't spamming or inorganic RP; on the contrary, it has a distinct narrative and timeline (place has a reputation for dark magic activities -> place becomes targeted by inquisitions).

 

As someone heavily involved during the height of these Canonist inquisitions under MadOne, very rarely was someone ever completely tested randomly. As MadOne himself often pointed out, suspicious characters tended to dress suspiciously (dark robes, hidden faces, black armour) which in turn made them targets for inquisitions. This is, again, an organic product of roleplay because these characters genuinely made no or minimal effort to hide the fact that they might, in fact, be evil-aligned. This will be a recurring theme for my criticism of the amendment.

 

As a side-note, while I know there are other 'inquisitions' and sources of testing (i.e. Celia'nor), I'll speak from the majority perspective of Canonism.

 

On a more general note, as you rightly imply, it's fairly known which places a dark CA is likely to be tested in. Ergo, by visiting a location of your own will, it's hard to see how you're not subjecting yourself to that risk. This doesn't deprive you of visiting that location, it just means a certain level of strategy is required if you want to remain undetected. Like I mentioned earlier, dressing in skins or disguises that fit in with the nation in question is generally going to spare you from a huge amount of suspicion - a lot of dark CA races neglect to this and (rightfully) stand out as a sinister character. This is a dynamic factor of dark CA roleplay that I think genuinely makes it very fun; if, for some reason, you have to go into a city of Canonists who hate and hunt vampyres, you should naturally be required to take steps to get around that.

 

"But I want to roleplay in [insert active city]!" is probably the main response to the above point, to which I answer - why are you playing a dark CA?

 

If you're driven to roleplay in a hub city and avoid the consequences of a dark CA that you voluntarily applied for, why did you undertake that CA in the first place? Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying "lol shouldn't have made a corcitura, idiot", because dark CAs are a huge source of narrative and activity on the server. What I'm saying is this: the risk of being tested and hunted is part of being a dark CA. It should be a part of your character, and it should be a driving force of your roleplay. Why on earth should that aspect be removed? Why on earth does it not make sense for you to have to plan to avoid suspicion if you're going to voluntarily go into a major hub city, especially if for no particular reason? 

 

I think this sacrifices a crucial part of what it means to be a dark CA and have your curse form a meaningful part of your character.

 

What this amendment is essentially advocating for is that the only way you should be realistically in trouble as a Corcitura is if you're caught red-handed in the fact of feeding on someone, and I think that's silly.

 

Spam testing, both in low-effort and good-faith RP forms, has organically evolved from roleplay. It's evolved from the prevalency and notoriety of Corcitura as a CA/FA. It's evolved from the rise of Canonist inquisitions across the land (which are now, however, on the decline - the Raguel/crusade stuff is not really targeted at rank & file dark CAs like this). It's evolved from many dark CA characters failing to actually take steps to engage with their CA, and instead expect themselves to be free of suspicion at nearly all times.

 

While I'm not saying this is what you're advocating for here, this amendment does represent a trend of what I see as "my character is a dark CA, but only when I want it to be". 

 

I'll also add that Corcitura is one of the last frontiers of dark CAs that is not already extremely difficult or impossible to test for. 

[Pancho 4197]

As someone who used to play a Corc, I strongly agree with this amendment. Corcs are spam tested for in places at gates even today. Salt and aurum testing are common place amongst communities that can afford to spare gate guards, closing multiple avenues of roleplay. +1

[satin 7600]

 

longterm narrative is a gaslight. almost all of these magical longterm narratives are done in small groups between important individuals (or alternatively direct friends of the spook) that ur average joe usually isnt privy to, meaning that the only darkspawn exposure most normal players get is darkspawn cas trying to mimic the gash meta by spamraiding for no tangible reason 

 

I think that if vampires want to make life easier for themselves in areas where spook-testing is common and advocate for such by saying, 'we'll make interesting narratives', they should first make interesting narratives where spook-testing isn't common

[kuebiko 684]

sporadic testing still occurs frequently, I got darkspawn tested after the Petra festival lol

 

+1, I personally find the narrative idea of "that friend you made at the tavern suddenly wants to suck your blood and THATS how you know he's a vampire" or otherwise having to actually fight the vampire (stabby stabby) is much more interesting than "I put salt in your wound after giving you a paper cut" 

 

 

[Morigung-oog 5697]

28 minutes ago, satinkira said:

 

longterm narrative is a gaslight. almost all of these magical longterm narratives are done in small groups between important individuals (or alternatively direct friends of the spook) that ur average joe usually isnt privy to, meaning that the only darkspawn exposure most normal players get is darkspawn cas trying to mimic the gash meta by spamraiding for no tangible reason 

 

I think that if vampires want to make life easier for themselves in areas where spook-testing is common and advocate for such by saying, 'we'll make interesting narratives', they should first make interesting narratives where spook-testing isn't common

 

Isn't that metaplay lol?

OOC orchestration for fun and interactive eventlines is great until you get a white-knighter who decides that no fun is allowed and decides to derail it by seasoning a vampire's booboo.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

1 hour ago, Xarkly said:

- Yoink -

 

*Cuts and Salts happens frequently, and often with the most absurd justification that sometimes you stop and wonder if its really IC, or just someone getting a dopamine hit demanding a mineman test. I'm not entirely sure where the notion of testing RP only happens when a Inquisition does, but I think it's more what other people do besides you.

 

Equally, LoTC has the baffling set of standards - certain aspects are made to uphold their lore and RP with that lore to the highest standards they can muster, while other aspects could likely not be cared for less and the least amount (sometimes less) of effort is put forth in return and deemed not only acceptable, but normalized. Of course, its not everyone doing this - but it happens often enough its the norm. People think any Aurum cut of shallow depth reveals any darkspawn without bothering to read the Aurum Page to know it doesn't, because why bother? Everyone else is doing it, and they all must be right.

 

Equally, there's no reciprocal investment into the avoiding testing/testing process, like one might see with Siegmund Candles and Mystics - everyone has a effectively unlimited amount of salt in reserve, a perfectly clean and sharp aurum blade, and is constantly observant of any possible, no matter how tiny, giveaway. It's pretty easy to see why people still salt and aurum test whenever possible, and why they'll grow extremely suspicious when you refuse it. It's the borderline effort of not-quite reading the aurum page and expecting people to just comply every time in return.

 

I enjoyed seeing MadOne's Inquisitions and the RP/Posts that came with it - it actually felt like they were doing the tests because, as you said, someone was acting off to the point you'd think it was obvious. What I can't really enjoy is seeing a post that details every person ever tested that's not a real codex - can't be stolen, can't be altered or forged, can't be anything because only one person has access to edit it and even if a physical, in-game copy is stolen or altered - they're not required to edit the forum post, or even keep a real book ingame. Again - Low effort in, high expected effort in return.

 

All this to say: Is it really such a bad idea to give Corcs a bone and some more leeway? When low-effort RP is normalized to that point it is, which is more a OOC reflection of the ease and absence of false positives/negatives then it is RP as we can all agree, why is it a bad thing to encourage people to put some effort into the give and take?

 

Obviously, Corcs are evil darkspawn - they should have to plot and plan and scheme and fight to stay alive and infiltrate places they don't want to get caught in, they should be considerate of where they are going to figure out how to dress and act and blend in: but no other MA (CAs are a bit obvious, given your options are clearly demonic demon, a giant stone ghost creature, or walking bones and flesh) offers a form of testing that absolutely cannot fail. Naztherak Brand's have metagaming protection and Grimoire's aren't exactly forced to be giant text "I am Naztherak" on the cover, mystics require someone to know, make, and light a Siegmund's Candle, and a Necromancer can, for a brief period, pass as alive and well at the cost of not being able too for another OOC week.

Is it really such a bad thing to raise the minimum threshold of effort to still be considered halfway decent RP?

[Lapidary 494]

Hello! I do really enjoy this amendment. Thank you for clarifying these things. Testing should be a serious action not just a small "let's poke everyone in the square" sort of thing. I find it very anxiety inducing just rping in any city knowing a "random darkspawn test" could happen at any given second, and adding this redline makes the testing requirements more serious. Love this clarification + update!

I've noticed a lot of the comments keep calling Corc a CA which is funny. It's an FA, meant to come w/ deception rp. :,)

[satin 7600]

5 minutes ago, Morigung-oog said:

Isn't that metaplay lol?

 

erm

 

5 minutes ago, Morigung-oog said:

 

Isn't that metaplay lol?

OOC orchestration for fun and interactive eventlines is great until you get a white-knighter who decides that no fun is allowed and decides to derail it by seasoning a vampire's booboo.

 

if ur that scared of generic goodguys who don't like fun and will irply go after ppl they oocly know are spooks then why would you ask to make it easier to go to the places stereotypically full of them

[marikandaperc 1817]

this changes nothing people will just spam test with a ton of salt xD

[sam33497 7356]

if your spook roleplay can be defeated by testing you suck lol.

[Xarkly 17299]

32 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Obviously, Corcs are evil darkspawn - they should have to plot and plan and scheme and fight to stay alive and infiltrate places they don't want to get caught in, they should be considerate of where they are going to figure out how to dress and act and blend in: but no other MA (CAs are a bit obvious, given your options are clearly demonic demon, a giant stone ghost creature, or walking bones and flesh) offers a form of testing that absolutely cannot fail. Naztherak Brand's have metagaming protection and Grimoire's aren't exactly forced to be giant text "I am Naztherak" on the cover, mystics require someone to know, make, and light a Siegmund's Candle, and a Necromancer can, for a brief period, pass as alive and well at the cost of not being able too for another OOC week.

Is it really such a bad thing to raise the minimum threshold of effort to still be considered halfway decent RP?

 

My entire objection here is the opposite, though, in that the threat and risk associated with being a darkspawn is literally entirely removed outside of feeding - this is, iirc, twice a month. Sure it exposes you to risk, still, but I think you're limiting the risk by basically 80-90%. 

 

You're saying there should be no risk for a dark creature to go into a holy and populous city. You're saying there should be no degree of strategy or preparation required. You're saying there should be no circumstances in which your CA is exposed in circumstances that are not tailored by you (i.e., feeding). That is so unbelievably lame and one-sided, and I say this as someone who plays on both sides of the fence. Without the degree of strategy required to infiltrate cities and feed, there would be no fun to playing my Corcitura whatsoever and I genuinely believe it fundamentally changes the entire point of the CA/FA. I would just play my character like a completely normal Descendant and then attack someone twice a month. 

 

The ability to 'turn off' your CA is something I profoundly disagree with and I don't understand why you subjected your character to a CA at that point. 

 

I would agree with the 'leeway' argument if the amendment proposed isn't reducing the ability to catch vampyres by about 90%. 

[BakedPotato 1019]

As a darkspawn player who has blended in with people, not getting caught really isnt hard. If your getting caught its likely on you. Corc is a FA you apply for and if you dont like the downsides of that FA then just dont get it, no one is making you do it.