[✗] Spam-Test Amendment #1: Corcitură Edition.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4009]

6 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

My entire objection here is the opposite, though, in that the threat and risk associated with being a darkspawn is literally entirely removed.

 

You're saying there should be no risk for a dark creature to go into a holy and populous city. You're saying there should be no degree of strategy or preparation required. You're saying there should be no circumstances in which your CA is exposed in circumstances that are not tailored by you (i.e., feeding). That is so unbelievably lame and one-sided, and I say this as someone who plays on both sides of the fence. Without the degree of strategy required to infiltrate cities and feed, there would be no fun to playing my Corcitura whatsoever and I genuinely believe it fundamentally changes the entire point of the CA/FA. I would just play my character like a completely normal Descendant and then attack someone twice a month. 

 

The ability to 'turn off' your CA is something I profoundly disagree with and I don't understand why you subjected your character to a CA at that point. 

 

I would agree with the 'leeway' argument if the amendment proposed isn't reducing the ability to catch vampyres by about 90%. 

 

If there is no way for the test to be a false negative or positive, or anything but a true positive when done to a Corc, then all I see is the opposite extreme of what your saying I'm saying. All someone has to do is, in essence, make up RP (or do not RP and just demand a test on the spot) to why someone looks "off", test them, and that's that. The ends justify the means OOCly to get to the test without any degree of strategy required. Anyone who refuses is obviously going to show a positive test.

 

I don't know Corc lore well enough to think of a alternative beyond Corc testing should be something risky - it should have a chance to fail, should not be infinitely acquirable, and should be at least comparatively difficult to do. Salting blood only, it seems, offers the extremes of "It was always work in any wound" and thus is effectively not a "test" but just something you just do because it won't ever hurt you or anyone to do, or "It wont work unless you pour a pint of salt into a near-fatal cut" which prevents it from happening all together. 

 

A simpler solution, probably, would be for corcs to be re-written to have some form of flaw or weakness thats more engaging then a little salt makes blood boil and less reliant on Silit lore that likely won't be back for a while, and let the FA stand on its own. 

 

I agree, at least - you shouldn't be able to turn off your FA, but nor should it be as easy as a single emote with no prior RP to reveal said FA. Middle ground must exist somewhere.

[MeteorDragon 3441]

19 minutes ago, BakedPotato said:

As a darkspawn player who has blended in with people, not getting caught really isnt hard. If your getting caught its likely on you. Corc is a FA you apply for and if you dont like the downsides of that FA then just dont get it, no one is making you do it.

 

The issue comes when you do everything right to not get caught and some random person comes up to you and is like "Darkspawn test? :3"

[Morigung-oog 5699]

51 minutes ago, marikandaperc said:

this changes nothing people will just spam test with a ton of salt xD

 

Actually, I specified significant stitch-worthy cuts to draw parallels with aurum testing because nobody wants to moderately wound new visitors to a city. Furthermore salt in the eyes of ANYONE in the specified volume I put in the amendment can cause some degree of eye-damage. It just adds more risk when it comes to testing the wrong people and is more painful to corc.

[SethWolf 2340]

Corc isnt even worth it in a gamey sense level like 99% of the other magics and feats. By taking it, you're actively choosing to make things more difficult for yourself for very little gain. Yeah it buffs blood magic by making you more resistant to its downsides and you can live longer, but you can be outed by table salt, you know, that shit that everyone has.

 

I'm not complaining ofcourse. I enjoy playing a vampire because I enjoy the culture it has in the community and I enjoy roleplaying with the people in it despite corc being a pretty mid feat on a mechanical level. I'm just saying that if Silitis are gone, and Corc is the only option to experience that sort of roleplay, would it really be so bad to actually require someone to need genuine evidence before they test you? All this amendment does is make the testing process much more of a commitment. There will be no more -cut, smoosh- roleplay. Now you have to stab someone. I think that's pretty fair.

[Xarkly 17299]

30 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

 

If there is no way for the test to be a false negative or positive, or anything but a true positive when done to a Corc, then all I see is the opposite extreme of what your saying I'm saying. All someone has to do is, in essence, make up RP (or do not RP and just demand a test on the spot) to why someone looks "off", test them, and that's that. The ends justify the means OOCly to get to the test without any degree of strategy required. Anyone who refuses is obviously going to show a positive test.

 

This is where the issue lies - I don't think you're conceptualising this correctly.

 

Why does someone look "off" in roleplay?

 

Is it because you've never seen them before? Is it because they're dressed strangely? In a world in which dark and hostile creatures are rampant, are these not justified reasons to be suspicious of strangers? This leads to a culture whereby townsfolk will regard strangers with scrutiny - they could be a vampyre, or much worse, bearing in mind that vampyres are a creature that is easily tested for, unlike the vast majority which can be basically hidden all the time.

 

Why is it undynamic that 'normal' characters will be wary of strangers in this setting? 

 

This is not a secret. Ergo, as a dark creature, you knowingly put yourself into situations whereby strangers are looked upon with distrust. So, where do you go from here? Like I indicated in my last example, dress is a big one. Maybe start by befriending some of the locals or other normal Descendants who could 'vouch' for you. Invent a story to get you into the city without being vetted by the guards - pretend you're sick, or injured, and need to be taken to the clinic (I pulled this exact move in Balian; I jumped out of the clinic, onto the roofs, and then fed on someone along on the walls). And, perhaps most importantly, maybe you should avoid going to cities full of people who want to kill you unless you have a compelling reason (if you're answer to this is "but I want to rp where's it active!" then you should make a non-dark CA persona to alternate between when you just want casual RP).

There's so many cooler ways of infiltrating societies as a vampyre (this is ignoring the fact a character who is already ingrained in society can just be turned), so advocating for "ok but what if you can actually never discover me unless I try to kill you" is definitely the lamest solution. 

 

Bearing in mind dark CAs are given fairly generous entitlements when it comes to lairs as a safe space where they can roleplay, so the natural duality is that it's dangerous to go visiting holy cities. Again, I'm not opposed to some leeway being shown, but this proposal is basically saying "unless a vampyre tries to kill you, they are totally risk-free". It's also not just vampyres, but it's a growing trend with a lot of CAs whereby they want to minimise their risk as much as possible. 

 

My issue with this is that it ultimately feels like the latest increment in a long saga of dark CAs campaigning to be able to access all hubs all the time without any risk of being caught, which I think frankly defeats the point of being a dark CA in the first place. 

 

 

[NightcastorKitty 2781]

Everyone here can agree that the real reason to do salt in eyes for testing is to get more Seers. 

[Werew0lf 24181]

16 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

 

This is where the issue lies - I don't think you're conceptualising this correctly.

 

Why does someone look "off" in roleplay?

 

Is it because you've never seen them before? Is it because they're dressed strangely? In a world in which dark and hostile creatures are rampant, are these not justified reasons to be suspicious of strangers? This leads to a culture whereby townsfolk will regard strangers with scrutiny - they could be a vampyre, or much worse, bearing in mind that vampyres are a creature that is easily tested for, unlike the vast majority which can be basically hidden all the time.

 

Why is it undynamic that 'normal' characters will be wary of strangers in this setting? 

 

This is not a secret. Ergo, as a dark creature, you knowingly put yourself into situations whereby strangers are looked upon with distrust. So, where do you go from here? Like I indicated in my last example, dress is a big one. Maybe start by befriending some of the locals or other normal Descendants who could 'vouch' for you. Invent a story to get you into the city without being vetted by the guards - pretend you're sick, or injured, and need to be taken to the clinic (I pulled this exact move in Balian; I jumped out of the clinic, onto the roofs, and then fed on someone along on the walls). And, perhaps most importantly, maybe you should avoid going to cities full of people who want to kill you unless you have a compelling reason (if you're answer to this is "but I want to rp where's it active!" then you should make a non-dark CA persona to alternate between when you just want casual RP).

There's so many cooler ways of infiltrating societies as a vampyre (this is ignoring the fact a character who is already ingrained in society can just be turned), so advocating for "ok but what if you can actually never discover me unless I try to kill you" is definitely the lamest solution. 

 

Bearing in mind dark CAs are given fairly generous entitlements when it comes to lairs as a safe space where they can roleplay, so the natural duality is that it's dangerous to go visiting holy cities. Again, I'm not opposed to some leeway being shown, but this proposal is basically saying "unless a vampyre tries to kill you, they are totally risk-free". It's also not just vampyres, but it's a growing trend with a lot of CAs whereby they want to minimise their risk as much as possible. 

 

My issue with this is that it ultimately feels like the latest increment in a long saga of dark CAs campaigning to be able to access all hubs all the time without any risk of being caught, which I think frankly defeats the point of being a dark CA in the first place. 

 

 

ur arguing with someone who doesn’t know how to make a cool narrative btw

[Agy 756]

49 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

You're saying there should be no risk for a dark creature to go into a holy and populous city. You're saying there should be no degree of strategy or preparation required.

 
This might not be exactly what you were talking about here, but I think it is very important to remember that the "risk" is VASTLY different depending on the Dark CA. A good example would be the Fjarriagua CA's misadventures during the 2~ years I've been within it.

 

In the past; You were a useless dark CA if your focus was on actually murdering, raiding and generally Antagonizing people like a good little spook. Your magic was nerfed to the point of being utterly useless or outright did not work in like 2/3rds of the continent (or 100% of everywhere that people actually RP) and ANY kind of death run the risk of your character being Soft-PKed for possibly weeks, if not months (if not years).

 

This, in turn led to pretty much all Frost Witch operations being heavily focused on being stealthy, your ability to disguise was your ONLY viable tool for any and all spoop RP. Leading to situations that a SINGLE blood test, could undo multiple months (If you ever made it that long) of hard work. Sure, you had infinite potential disguises, but by losing one, you also lose everything you've achieved on said disguise, all connections, all property, all standings with various groups and any manner of titles if you were so lucky. Which in turn lead to the CA suffering heavily when it came to burn out and frustrations

 

Since, the immense risks of being blood tested were staggeringly high - meanwhile - to the person testing you it was literally costing nothing. BUT after the most recent collection of amendment that have since then fixed most of the core issues plauging the CA, thus allowing it to go on proper raids and take proper fun risks outside of disguise RP... This in turn lead to the Risk and Dangers of blood tests, becoming Tiny compared to before. Since now, the entirety of your ability to be a spook and engage with the rest of the server didn't hinge on your ability to hide away at in plain sight.

 

I haven't needed to bother in the slightest about being blood tested in these recent few months, not because it's harder to be exposed, but rather because the disguises themselves have become less intergral to the continuation of any schemes or RP of my character. And with that said; I see the Corcs and I see the same situation;  They are so generally weak compared to other CAs that Disguise RP and all that is pretty much all they can do and are thus suffering exponentially more from blood tests than the rest of the Dark CA/MAs.

[greisn 366]

way too easy

you are monster hunter slop which is the stated purpose of the FA

[Xarkly 17299]

15 minutes ago, Agy said:

 
This might not be exactly what you were talking about here, but I think it is very important to remember that the "risk" is VASTLY different depending on the Dark CA. A good example would be the Fjarriagua CA's misadventures during the 2~ years I've been within it.

 

In the past; You were a useless dark CA if your focus was on actually murdering, raiding and generally Antagonizing people like a good little spook. Your magic was nerfed to the point of being utterly useless or outright did not work in like 2/3rds of the continent (or 100% of everywhere that people actually RP) and ANY kind of death run the risk of your character being Soft-PKed for possibly weeks, if not months (if not years).

 

This, in turn led to pretty much all Frost Witch operations being heavily focused on being stealthy, your ability to disguise was your ONLY viable tool for any and all spoop RP. Leading to situations that a SINGLE blood test, could undo multiple months (If you ever made it that long) of hard work. Sure, you had infinite potential disguises, but by losing one, you also lose everything you've achieved on said disguise, all connections, all property, all standings with various groups and any manner of titles if you were so lucky. Which in turn lead to the CA suffering heavily when it came to burn out and frustrations

 

Since, the immense risks of being blood tested were staggeringly high - meanwhile - to the person testing you it was literally costing nothing. BUT after the most recent collection of amendment that have since then fixed most of the core issues plauging the CA, thus allowing it to go on proper raids and take proper fun risks outside of disguise RP... This in turn lead to the Risk and Dangers of blood tests, becoming Tiny compared to before. Since now, the entirety of your ability to be a spook and engage with the rest of the server didn't hinge on your ability to hide away at in plain sight.

 

I haven't needed to bother in the slightest about being blood tested in these recent few months, not because it's harder to be exposed, but rather because the disguises themselves have become less intergral to the continuation of any schemes or RP of my character. And with that said; I see the Corcs and I see the same situation;  They are so generally weak compared to other CAs that Disguise RP and all that is pretty much all they can do and are thus suffering exponentially more from blood tests than the rest of the Dark CA/MAs.

 

I mentioned this to Mori in DMs but this loops around back to the real problem with Corcitura - it was written as a 'bottom of the ladder' CA that was meant to progress to Siliti. When viewed through that perspective, the 'weaknesses' of Corcitura are a lot more contextual and balanced.

 

While I sympathise they have the short end of the straw, the issue for me really is that every CA has so many strengths and ways to hide on top of revival mechanics in a lot of cases.

[Agy 756]

1 minute ago, Xarkly said:

 

I mentioned this to Mori in DMs but this loops around back to the real problem with Corcitura - it was written as a 'bottom of the ladder' CA that was meant to progress to Siliti. When viewed through that perspective, the 'weaknesses' of Corcitura are a lot more contextual and balanced.

 

While I sympathise they have the short end of the straw, the issue for me really is that every CA has so many strengths and ways to hide on top of revival mechanics in a lot of cases.

 

1 minute ago, Xarkly said:

I mentioned this to Mori in DMs but this loops around back to the real problem with Corcitura - it was written as a 'bottom of the ladder' CA that was meant to progress to Siliti. When viewed through that perspective, the 'weaknesses' of Corcitura are a lot more contextual and balanced.

 

While I sympathise they have the short end of the straw, the issue for me really is that every CA has so many strengths and ways to hide on top of revival mechanics in a lot of cases.

Aand yes, these would be both be spot on!
As I said, their issue lies in the fact that they are too weak to do anything but disguise spook rp and their status in the lore fully reinforces the fact that there is no reason for them to be strong to begin with. So the best that could honestly be done to change that would be for someone to achieve the awkward and herculean task of unshelving the Siliti and returning the Corcs into their supposed role as basically little silly minions.

[NightcastorKitty 2781]

@Xarkly @Agy it's a Feat guys. Not a CA. There's not much that will ever go on with it further unless that core concept changes. 

[MadOne 4945]

The problem isnt the testing lol if you dress like ******* Sauron or Voldemort in a medieval slavic city obviously you are gonna get tested. Just literally if these CA goons dropped their weird gothic aesthetic and dressed like unassuming peasants, no one would spam test them anymore. U guys keep telegraphing ur evil alignment with ur aesthetics and get surprised when u get caught. Bad amendment

[The King Of The Moon 7016]

19 minutes ago, MadOne said:

The problem isnt the testing lol if you dress like ******* Sauron or Voldemort in a medieval slavic city obviously you are gonna get tested. Just literally if these CA goons dropped their weird gothic aesthetic and dressed like unassuming peasants, no one would spam test them anymore. U guys keep telegraphing ur evil alignment with ur aesthetics and get surprised when u get caught. Bad amendment

You've literally been banned for metagaming vampires before lol

 

Irrespective of which I think "some people are unsubtle" is a really poor argument in the context of this ammendment. As has already been pointed out, people can (and do) spam tests at city gates, during oathing ceremonies, whenever they meet a stranger... and from a narrative perspective, why wouldn't they? Its a fool proof IC means of exposing a thing universally understood as evil, which is precisely the reason why it ultimately eliminates RP opportunities. 

 

No matter how good of a standing a character is in, no matter what lengths they go to to avoid suspicion, testing as written is unavoidable and punishing in a manner not shared by any other dark magic or CA, applied to a feat with very minimal benefit.

 

If I OOCly know someone is a vampire and have an anti-rp mindset, all I need is the most thinly veiled excuse to go "let me test you" and a refusal of that test can be (logically) taken as proof of guilt in of itself. Yes this would be metagaming but it'd also take a mindreader to prove it as such, and most people would rather just get on with shitty RP than derail into an OOC argument with an uncertain wait time on mod or ST intervention.

 

There's no nuance to it, no investigation, no real storytelling beyond "ok everyone in the city kill this person" once you've emoted seasoning them.

 

It is from all sides a story breaker, not a story maker.

[MadOne 4945]

6 minutes ago, The King Of The Moon said:

You literally got banned for metagaming vampires lol

Nice btfo but that was like 3 years ago, im sure u are familiar with this but as the pontiff while testing id like to say that i have been pretty good faith in the testing process and have been pretty purist about roleplay, so idk what the point ur making is here. Ive seen your characters about 7 times on caius and if i had any desire to metagame I would have merked you already, but u urself know that its really dumb to dress like voldemort on public so you dont do it, and as a result never got clocked on anyone’s radar