What would you do?

[argonian 14254]

36 minutes ago, monkeypoacher said:

Hey man, I'm a competitive fart sniffing slice of life roleplayer. I don't even get to write my paragraph length emotes because I'm not logging on at 2PM on a Friday when the big discord community events are scheduled. I liked playing in a world that constantly changed a little bit with the people roleplaying it, even if I didn't build or PvP much. The current maps don't change except for 1 or 2 big events, and then there's a permanently burning city or a portal to hell for some completed event that is completely uninteractive. 

 

I think the nobuild stuff is mainly for the benefit of people who don't want to log on and do anything but still feel like they should have outsized influence over what happens in roleplay.
We should give people the benefit of the doubt if they have concerns about the map turning into one giant 2b2t lava cast or their RP being degenerated - these are all valid. 
 

If we make fun of anyone it should be the people who pretend to be the Game Master and force people to read their verbose rules and opinions and fill out their overcomplicated paperwork. Some of the first replies to this thread were people writing literal typeset paragraphs of inane commentary on minecraft rules. Those people should pick up a pen and paper and find some IRL grognards to discuss troop movements with.

True. I should clarify - there's nothing wrong with tavern RP, monologues, or narrative emotes. The trouble is people who reduce RP to solely these things, and with feigned offence reject the idea of (any, or just regular) players having the right to actually DO anything in the world. Some of these types are now on-board with nations getting to war each other and the like, which was a hard-fought victory for types like me, but they will only accept that for NLs and not for the average player, who absolutely should not place or break blocks without express permission of the aforementioned. Otherwise he is to keep his hands away from his mouse and purely on his keyboard.

 

This situation was even worse in 2020-2022 or so where the rules, and thus the majority opinion of these types, was that even inter-nation conflict was horrid and detestable. Thankfully, we've moved on from there, purely because most of these people are lemmings and pretend that whatever the rules currently say is their own heartfelt opinion, but it remains a problem that a large portion of this server are utterly and implacably opposed to the idea that any player be allowed do anything that doesn't involve an application or badgering an existing NL.

 

I also pretty much never built anything in freebuild maps. But I enjoyed a dynamic and breathing world enabled by it. I occupied an abandoned fort built by someone else I never knew, I RP'd in cities built at natural congregation points only freebuild allowed (prebuilt capitals are always located far away - for fairness). I witnessed towns and nations rise and fall organically. And on rare occasion I did build a farm or fell a few trees as necessary, either to feed myself or to gather resources. These are all natural ways to influence the world around you without even particularly trying, just through playing Minecraft. And it gives us things to talk about when we go to the tavern to RP afterwards. But to some (many) people, playing this game we all bought is a great offence which must never be permitted. And here we are.

[greisn 366]

1 hour ago, Dalek348 said:

Then it should be trivially easy for you to go and find some examples

just my experience walking the server for the first time. some were good, some were bad

nice builds though

[Kaiser 2347]

1 hour ago, monkeypoacher said:

You are free to turn your server into an inactive dollhouse with occasional laggy PvP battles. You're also free to write overly verbose rules about who gets what part of the dollhouse or when and how those laggy PvP battles are allowed to take place. You are even freer to stare at spreadsheets and paperwork in your spare time and have arguments over the spreadsheets and paperwork. It just seems like a lot of effort to have to continually expend to keep the server boring.

 

We're not inactive nor are we hemorrhaging players

If you want anything done on this server you're gonna have to create a system for it. Write it out, write out how it'd effect other systems, how it'd work, how we know if it works or doesn't, what data can be collected if any, what rules need to change, what new rules need to be made, how this will be moderated, etc etc. Bring me that and I'll talk with you, or anyone, about Freebuild.

 

You won't do that though, so the staff aren't really gonna implement your idea.

 

Alternatively go make your own RP server that's completely anarchic with no rules. If it's such a good idea, I'm sure you'll out compete LoTC in just a short time...

 

 

 

 

[Dalek348 1962]

1 minute ago, greisn said:

just my experience walking the server for the first time. some were good, some were bad

nice builds though

 

It’s terribly inconvenient that something which you so confidently stated as fact cannot be substantiated by any credible evidence.

 

I can counter with anecdotal evidence of my own - I never saw any builds I would consider ugly in freebuild and generally regard them much more highly than most of the ones pasted into nobuild regions.  

[greisn 366]

1 minute ago, Dalek348 said:

It’s terribly inconvenient that something which you so confidently stated as fact cannot be substantiated by any credible evidence

😂

[argonian 14254]

7 minutes ago, Kaiser said:

If you want anything done on this server you're gonna have to create a system for it. Write it out, write out how it'd effect other systems, how it'd work, how we know if it works or doesn't, what data can be collected if any, what rules need to change, what new rules need to be made, how this will be moderated, etc etc. Bring me that and I'll talk with you, or anyone, about Freebuild.

4 hours ago, Kaiser said:

Freebuild is never coming back just to put that out there for everyone

Except you already said it wouldn't happen.

 

Just like you already said every resource selling for 1 mina doesn't mean deflation (https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/246636-realms-update-100-land-selection/?do=findComment&comment=2095322

 

You have a habit of making incredibly stupid statements in the most condescending of ways, but you can save the sarcasm for people who are far brighter than you.

[Dalek348 1962]

8 minutes ago, Kaiser said:

 

We're not inactive nor are we hemorrhaging players

If you want anything done on this server you're gonna have to create a system for it. Write it out, write out how it'd effect other systems, how it'd work, how we know if it works or doesn't, what data can be collected if any, what rules need to change, what new rules need to be made, how this will be moderated, etc etc. Bring me that and I'll talk with you, or anyone, about Freebuild.

 

You won't do that though, so the staff aren't really gonna implement your idea.

 

Alternatively go make your own RP server that's completely anarchic with no rules. If it's such a good idea, I'm sure you'll out compete LoTC in just a short time...

 

 

 

 

 

This is not the ‘gotcha’ you think it is. There is no reason why you need systems and data for this or anything for that matter. You say you’ll speak about freebuild while simultaneously saying it will never happen, giving no reasons and telling players to just go away. 

 

It is more valid to say that if you want a nobuild doll house server then this is not the server for you, and you should go elsewhere. These are not the foundations on which the server built its success and is certainly not the future. 

 

When I saw that you posted, I thought that there would finally be some credible opposition to the debate. How disappointed I was to read such a witless and poorly considered response. 

Edited May 28, 2025 by Dalek348

[monkeypoacher 8055]

42 minutes ago, Kaiser said:

If you want anything done on this server you're gonna have to create a system for it. Write it out, write out how it'd effect other systems, how it'd work, how we know if it works or doesn't, what data can be collected if any, what rules need to change, what new rules need to be made, how this will be moderated, etc etc. Bring me that and I'll talk with you, or anyone, about Freebuild.

 

You won't do that though, so the staff aren't really gonna implement your idea.

It's in the works, buddy.

[NightOfTheWind 3226]

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

Metaplay; its definition, how it is handled, 'good' vs 'bad' metaplay, how it diferentiates to metagaming, etc.

Metaplay is a very strange thing and it's incredibly prevalent from the youngest to oldest players in regards to server age. At the end of the day LOTC is a game and if someone does something like powergame and metagame, contrary to the opinion to some players on the server, it shouldn't mean we should hold a public execution for that player. After all, it's a game (people say this all the time but I'm about to tell you what it really means). It's when that player who doesn't play it right that you hold the right to share your opinion on what they did wrong. That being said there's always a right and wrong way to go about things.
These are very simple concepts here, ones that are only so prevalent because no one looks to those sitting next to them and calls them out on it. So I implore you, whoever is reading this, if you see someone playing the game unfairly be sure to point them out. I assure you the server is a lot more fun even when you're not winning, as long as you're actually playing the game the right way.

 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

Realm mechanics; how much does it influence rp despite being an OOC mechanic, reformulation of the realm rules, etc.

I'm unsure what this is supposed to mean but I assume you're talking about nations. Nation RP is probably the easiest way for a new player to get into the server and the reason why a lot of things are stagnating compared to 2019 LOTC for instance in culture, religion, and some other things (not everywhere of course, just some places/races on the server are having a hard time catching up I've noticed) is because there's no new lifeblood being circulated through. So you basically have the same five players in a council chat rotating around different seats on different characters when it should be that a new player is going to eventually take up that mantle. 
I think activity checks as much as I didn't like them as a new player were one of the most necessary evils that I'm glad we have back. Pressure from activity checks really drove home that you could lose your nation if you didn't work hard for it and actually made people lock in. I'm looking forward to seeing what other people create with new nations. I'm also glad things are starting to condense and we have less realms.

 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

• Free build; should it return? is it good? is it bad? why?
•  

Yeah I was one of the players that played during the freebuild era and had a pretty active settlement. We had this dude who did nothing but build on the server, it's just what he liked doing so he basically made an entire nation build for my friends and I that we could roleplay in. It was totally in survival too it was nuts how much he grinded for blocks he was a really nice and great player too--wish he still played. 

Anyways, people like to forget that the server has changed and bringing back old systems won't 'bring the glory back to LOTC'. That's just not how it works. I doubt people will use free build anyways if it returns because even back in Arcas which was the map I played on that had freebuild it wasn't really used that much. People only used it to either store their items, do loner caveman roleplay, make horrible builds that was just straight up griefing the server, or the rare occurrence of a small group of players (like the group I was apart of that some friends of mine invited me to) doing some active RP but it wouldn't last for long. 

By bringing back free build the way it was you're going to ask a lot of mods to oversee an entire section of the map, constantly checking it for when New Player J*n S*ow rip-off decides to make a dirt mud house because he couldn't find his way to Burgundy and there was no monk to help him. I guarantee you they won't do that. 
I don't think the server will be hurt either way but I think if you want to bring it back in a way that would better fit this era of LOTC, I'd give nation/realm leaders the power to decide whether or not a tile they have is freebuild. This way you won't have an entire space that no one will ever play on clogging the map. And if they ever think that their community or random players are sort of abusing that power, they'll just modreq to take it away. Very easy and simple solution I think. Of course there's also running the risk that someone might grief your build but that's just a risk in general if you ever give someone build perms lol.
 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

• Discord; is it worse than TS/Skype back in the day? is the centralization of nation discords bad for rp? are discord 'hubs' announcing events technically metaplay?
•  

 

Don't know about TS/Skype wasn't there for that but I'm going to be honest with you Discord has never been an issue; the players are. I think old players have spun this weird narrative that is basically a huge nothing-burger because they can't properly point a finger on what's actually wrong with the server at the moment (if there's anything wrong at all). As a player you control the buttons you press and if you're spending too much time on Discord and the Forums making fun of people and trying to one-up them on something you're barely educated about you should take a moment to remember why you applied to the server in the first place.
That being said there could be a better argument to make regarding Discord's integration onto LOTC but I'm going to be real with you I don't really use Discord that for LOTC stuff. It's really good and saves a lot of time when you want to apply for citizen doors and build perms but I think you could do the former IRP with a minecraft book.. but I don't mind it it's great for saving time trying to find that specific steward number 13 out of 28 who barely plays lol.
If Discord is being too much of an issue for you then just stop using it to be fair. You can get a lot of mileage from a roleplay without ever having to tune into a nation discord.
 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

• The ST; is lore too boring? is ST to be blamed for it? is stuff too overtuned/too weak? should ST be allowed in leadership positions, or be made an exception alongside mods/admins?
•  

I don't think any lore is boring at all unless it's a rip-off of something. I like seeing what people create but there's a tough pill to swallow that not everything is going to work on the server. LOTC is very unique in that regard. I do kind of miss that era where magic was barely prevalent. Nowadays it's void-magic this and [Event Character] this for [World Ending Event]. It's very tiresome and I wish that I could see more player-driven narratives rather than magic ones that stem from lore. Then again I think some players have forgotten how to drive a narrative.
Just kind of a shame how everything needs to be spread around and everyone needs to know everything and talk about it. Now that I think about it that could be an argument you could make against Discord but then again that too is a product of players not being able to restrain themselves. Surprises in a narrative make it more healthy.

Regarding any player being in a leadership position it's kind of really easy to spot when someone is abusing their position like that. But then again people also don't know what they're talking about sometimes and just complain for the sake of complaining about something that's not going to affect them. 

At the very least, I'll say this: Back during Arcas there was a dude called firespirit who played a character called Jack. He was a pretty big deal in the Paladins and that player was an ST. He was also the leader of the 'Last Light Camp' which was a group of players settling down in demon-infested lands. If Firespirit44 didn't communicate well with the story team members during that whole eventline, which he himself was participating in as a player, that event definitely wouldn't have been as organized for the ST nor as fun for the players.

I don't think we should alienate players from opportunities narratively because of the faults of other people, especially when they do a lot of work for the server that they're volunteering for. 

 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

• Wars; why did wars pause to 'fix rules' and rules are still a mess? should wars be completely reformulated?
•  

Not going to touch on anything war-related personally. I don't participate in them so I don't really have the right to. 

 

7 hours ago, Navigator said:

• Hate speech & analogies on the server; should we accept obvious connotations/analogies to be made? (ex.; n*zi analogies)

 

 

It's really easy to spot when a player is being a nuisance and a genuine bully. Especially because it's always the same ten players doing it (they just got a successful ban appeal from their six month ban for doing the same thing). However I don't think we should draw lines towards things where there doesn't need to be. Fine to raise an eyebrow and talk about it with your fellow player but don't make them out to be a villain based solely on your suspicions.

If they're doing something bad, I guarantee you it's going to be obvious.

@NavigatorWhat do you think about what I had to say? I think you've made a very interesting post and hope the conversation remains civil between the players here without the Four Horsemen of Thread Derailing coming in.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

48 minutes ago, Dalek348 said:

When I saw that you posted, I thought that there would finally be some credible opposition to the debate. How disappointed I was to read such a witless and poorly considered response. 

This guy isn't going to argue with you on the forums, and it's his right not to. I think freebuild is a self-evidently superior system to what we have, and creating a "system" for it is straightforward.

 

But KaiserThoren *is* right that you would need to slot freebuild in to lord of the craft's existing systems such as they are. 

You can't join a project and set someone else's already existing part of it on fire, even if you're ontologically correct to do so and it would improve the project as a whole.

 

If anyone wants to chat with me about the freebuild doc, my old discord got nuked. Hit me up at large_weird_bug

[NightOfTheWind 3226]

6 hours ago, monkeypoacher said:

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but I think there should be build = TRUE regions covering most of the center of the map, where players are most likely to interact with each other. This would work mechanically like a blacklist system- everyone can build in the freebuild areas, maybe you get your privileges revoked if you're obnoxious.

 

The main concerns people have with freebuild are either landscarring, map decentralization, or their nations losing pixel power. The latter two of those can be addressed by restricting build = TRUE to the center, greylisting some areas for claimable land, and whitelisting the periphery of the map for lairs and event areas and such.

Back in Arcas which was the most recent freebuild map there was little to no map decentralization because no one played there, it was also off in the corner of the map near the Korvassa where no one played there either until near the end of the map (Al-Faiz and a few other builds if you remember). I actually think land-scarring is the biggest issue here but like I said before, out of sight out of mind.

Your change to putting most of the freebuild regions in the more populated areas of the map would flip that idea on it's head which is a pretty interesting take. However I do think there could be some problems its execution if not done correctly. I think that a realistic take would be to see that assuming anyone uses the freebuild tiles, they'll most definitely be pushed out by nation roleplayers wanting the tile they're on because it's in a very advantageous position for activity.

I hypothesize you're almost always going to see a group of ten players MAX in a small town/village being pushed out by a larger nation of 80+ players even if your tile is closer to where the roleplay is. This is assuming that tile in question is claimable by any nation/realm. So I actually suggest a solution that the tile can be claimable, however they don't have the ability to push anyone out. But the nation/realm is able to claim the activity of the free-builders as a part of their nation. Freebuilders get to keep the place they grinded hard for, and the nation/realm guys get to get what extra space is left in that tile as well as consuming their activity for their own.

Regarding how this would affect the narrative, I imagine land disputes being an interesting avenue to take. Although on the other hand, I personally disagree that such tiles should be in such a popular place. I think they should be littered throughout the map rather than one big massive blob of freebuild in the center. It's be a healthier thing if you decided to take that tile 'by chance'.
 

[wowj 9747]

hello

[Nectorist 12869]

4 hours ago, NightOfTheWind said:

Back in Arcas which was the most recent freebuild map there was little to no map decentralization because no one played there, it was also off in the corner of the map near the Korvassa where no one played there either until near the end of the map (Al-Faiz and a few other builds if you remember). I actually think land-scarring is the biggest issue here but like I said before, out of sight out of mind.

Arcas actually came to be quite decentralized, but this was mostly because staff policy back then was to allow any settlement that had like two signatories on the forums. It came to be quite an issue in late 2019 and was really only fixed by the total collapse of the server forcing everyone to RP in the same 5 chunks.

 

4 hours ago, NightOfTheWind said:

I hypothesize you're almost always going to see a group of ten players MAX in a small town/village being pushed out by a larger nation of 80+ players even if your tile is closer to where the roleplay is. This is assuming that tile in question is claimable by any nation/realm. So I actually suggest a solution that the tile can be claimable, however they don't have the ability to push anyone out. But the nation/realm is able to claim the activity of the free-builders as a part of their nation. Freebuilders get to keep the place they grinded hard for, and the nation/realm guys get to get what extra space is left in that tile as well as consuming their activity for their own.

I kinda agree with this. I think most nations now would be pretty happy to have a group of like 10 guys just building stuff under them, which is how it worked on the pre-Arcas server, but the cultural shift towards preventing ANY kind of vassal activity outside of the capitol (for fear of rebellion/loss of OOC oversight) really killed that for a while. For most of this map, you've had REALLY good land in the Midlands totally devoid of anything because none of the nations that owned it after Veletz were willing to allow anything to be made there.

 

I think that if there are pockets of prime real estate that just aren't being developed at all, then players should be free to build on them and nations should have to act accordingly. If anything, this is probably more "realistic" - people would build settlements on good, unused land all the time, and nearby powers would try to find a way to extend their authority over them.

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

To be so real, Freebuild being allowed or not is not a issue itself; its wholly incompatible with the current tile system & Tile-based WC System.

 

Who's PRO on a tile in a freebuild? How do you determine costs for traveling armies? Who gets to declare war upon what builds? Who gets to fight? What WC goals are allowed? What are you allowed to have on a freebuild within a tile?

 

It's not happening bc way too much seems to be invested into tiles and tile-based systems for staff to abandon it imo

[Laeonathan 5889]

11 hours ago, Kaiser said:

Freebuild is never coming back just to put that out there for everyone

 

It was so aweful to maintain.