What would you do?

[monkeypoacher 8054]

2 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

To be so real, Freebuild being allowed or not is not a issue itself; its wholly incompatible with the current tile system & Tile-based WC System.

 

Who's PRO on a tile in a freebuild? How do you determine costs for traveling armies? Who gets to declare war upon what builds? Who gets to fight? What WC goals are allowed? What are you allowed to have on a freebuild within a tile?

 

It's not happening bc way too much seems to be invested into tiles and tile-based systems for staff to abandon it imo

 

Yeah, that's the point. We are constantly having to argue over the what the rules should be in any case where one of the "tile-based systems" does not translate from the 4X game in its author's brain to the Minecraft world we are all roleplaying in, or the infinite possible scenarios that could happen in text-based roleplay.

For instance, say there's a rebellion in tile X. Group A is fed up with the leadership of Group B. Is tile X now at war with itself? Who is allowed to move through tile X to get to another warclaim somewhere else? If Group A wins, what happens to Groups C and D which were neutral in the rebellion? Are they vassals of A, or does tile X get redrawn? 

 

But I guess since it's so important, who's the PRO on tile X? Clearly it can't be a member of Group A or Group B; how could that possibly be fair? So I guess there's no PRO now. Every "system" that depends on there being a PRO has to either be suspended or rewritten to cover this specific case. There was a point a few maps ago where you literally were not allowed to rebel because the staff could not figure out how it was supposed to work.

 

LotC's rules are based on such fragile and expensive abstractions that when the war rules need to be rewritten, there's a long period with no rules, and no way to resolve conflicts. And you're asking me how we'll figure out who gets to go to war with a house in the freebuild or what builds are allowed? I think we'll figure it out!

 

We don't need to reach for a hypothetical. There is a 100+ reply forum argument going on right now that started because there weren't specific rules to represent the roleplay agreement the high elves made with Caurost. This is why we're arguing about freebuild. It's not just because we like placing blocks. It's because the rules and """systems""" have become so bloated and overcomplicated that the Admins can't seem to figure them out.

[the GOAT of the craft 606]

@Dalek348

 

[MrMojoMordor 2413]

Honestly, as someone who's last map was Atlas - LotC is in a pretty good state when it comes to the general vibe. Sure it still has it's issues, but ATLEAST there are a lot less weirdos & edgy teenagers. Literally all my friends besides 3 from Atlas - got banned for being freaks in the 5 yrs i didn't play LotC. So in that way, i'm glad the community has become a safer place as a whole.

You know what would fix the meta-play issues & those rules being unclear?
Make examples. 
Literally post PICTURES of examples what is & isn't okay. Yes it'll probably take some elbow grease & will get tweaked over-time - but it'll stop the confusion & people's eyes from glazing over when they read rules.

When it comes to staff, I barely interact with them unless they're a friend of mine before becoming staff.

Maybe only thing i would comment on is ST - while i see some communities & players constantly post, partake & talk about events, I myself found it incredibly hard to do so unless i happen to walk into one. I want to do cool shit do - but i have no clue how to even do that without going to beg ET's or lurk in communities that have the happenings. @ET make more Shaman events please :3 & @LT I'm sorry for spamming you guy's with Hex requests. @BT I've never seen you do anything, but i assume your builds are cool. The Fall of Xan one was at least.

Otherwise I hold no opinions on other topics. I get on just to make player-events or be silly. 

[LithiumSedai 5750]

It amazes me how @argonianand @monkeypoacherconsistently seem to have great takes on every single feedback thread. I would create an ST imperial crown of Godfrey for james2k if it meant he would be in charge of server policy

 

[NightOfTheWind 3226]

7 hours ago, Nectorist said:

Arcas actually came to be quite decentralized, but this was mostly because staff policy back then was to allow any settlement that had like two signatories on the forums. It came to be quite an issue in late 2019 and was really only fixed by the total collapse of the server forcing everyone to RP in the same 5 chunks.

 

Lol I remember all those posts with the huge amount of signatures, I remember signing off on one myself I think. But yeah I phrased that bad. I wasn't really talking about Arcas itself but rather the freebuild part of it--that because no one played in the freebuild area, it didn't really affect any nations or charters that were player-made with the signatures you're talking about. 

 

7 hours ago, Nectorist said:

I kinda agree with this. I think most nations now would be pretty happy to have a group of like 10 guys just building stuff under them, which is how it worked on the pre-Arcas server, but the cultural shift towards preventing ANY kind of vassal activity outside of the capitol (for fear of rebellion/loss of OOC oversight) really killed that for a while. For most of this map, you've had REALLY good land in the Midlands totally devoid of anything because none of the nations that owned it after Veletz were willing to allow anything to be made there.

 

I think that if there are pockets of prime real estate that just aren't being developed at all, then players should be free to build on them and nations should have to act accordingly. If anything, this is probably more "realistic" - people would build settlements on good, unused land all the time, and nearby powers would try to find a way to extend their authority over them.

That's unfortunate that people weren't able to build around but yeah I agree with what you say at the end here. It's really the only way I can see freebuild coming back if at all under the current LOTC. That being said I can see unfair and toxic conflicts coming from land disputes between freebuilders and nation roleplayers. It'd have to be a system that operates on a very delicate touch if that makes sense.

[NightOfTheWind 3226]

3 hours ago, MrMojoMordor said:

Honestly, as someone who's last map was Atlas - LotC is in a pretty good state when it comes to the general vibe. Sure it still has it's issues, but ATLEAST there are a lot less weirdos & edgy teenagers. Literally all my friends besides 3 from Atlas - got banned for being freaks in the 5 yrs i didn't play LotC. So in that way, i'm glad the community has become a safer place as a whole.

You know what would fix the meta-play issues & those rules being unclear?
Make examples. 
Literally post PICTURES of examples what is & isn't okay. Yes it'll probably take some elbow grease & will get tweaked over-time - but it'll stop the confusion & people's eyes from glazing over when they read rules.

 

Server's a lot safer than it used to be but I don't blame the newish players for still thinking there should be an improvement. One map's climate is way different than the one preceding it after all. 
Regarding your fix on meta-play issues, where would you post these examples? Personally I don't think they'd do much. This is because that when you're a new player (or at least when I was) you're still pretty new to roleplay and you need to learn based off of the people around you. That's why you see so many new players that end up in unfortunate places getting brainblasted by people that shouldn't be teaching new players how to play LOTC go off the deep end because they were exposed too much eldritch knowledge before actually learning how to roleplay ( I made a pink tag I was going to teach magical lore to wait 1 IRL year playing the server as a normal player before giving or teaching him anything).

Another reason why I don't think it'd do much regarding that is because these players that are metaplaying know unconsciously or consciously what they're doing is against the rules but they still do it either to not get caught, or get caught and make an apology, excuse, or hide it better. So that's why I'm saying dealing out punishments to these players that are still spreading around the metaplay mentality is the best thing, rather than educating them on what not or what to do.
If it were that simple, I think we wouldn't have as big as a metaplay issue as we do now. Although I could be totally wrong here--and I don't think it'd be a bad thing to post examples, it's a good idea I just doubt it's effectiveness.

[Smmer 2441]

 

[the GOAT of the craft 606]

Metaplay: Honestly not sure how this is so different from metagaming. Perhaps it's the contrived plots that people come up with to attain power? Either way, mod/admin team need to be stricter with the enforcement of rules and do need to step in sometimes to steer the narrative. Though I would like to see a big narrative thread in the server akin to the Undead v Ascended plot back in the days of old, it seems the server has moved beyond that. Still, there needs to be a hand, or hands, to guide the narrative of the server. Something like the Kingdom of Burgundy should not be allowed to happen again.

Realm mechanics: Players should be allowed to settle where they want. If another group of players want to remove them from the land they should be allowed to through roleplay. However, it has never been this way and probably won't ever be this way. People should not have to write an essay for a lair application, they should just be able to claim what land they want as long as nobody else has already claimed it. They shouldn't need to grovel and ask a realm leader for a tile in their nation. If someone wanted to create a little thieves den somewhere, high up in the mountains or in a cave, let them. If someone stumbles upon a cool looking cave and wants to make it their hermit home for a time, let them. 

Free build: Yes it should. Hire more mods if there is the concern of ugly builds being built. However there are already a plethora of gargantuan and ugly builds on the server and nobody seems to care.

'State' of the staff team: This one is best for the mods to answer I feel, though I doubt we will ever get a proper answer from them. It seems to me they are primarily here to sort out issues between players/groups now.

Discord: Yes it is worse than TS/Skype. The power trips people go on are crazy. The back stabbing is crazy. I feel as though it creates more of a divide in the playerbase instead of uniting us. It falls to older players to try and push younger players to resolve conflict, though discords are usually ran by cliques of players that like the smell of their own farts.

The ST: Lore being too boring is not the issue. My biggest issue is coming up against someone in CRP and them sending me a link to their magic lore and I have to read through all of it if I want a fair fight. This server has gone down a route of making people write essays for absolutely everything and it's ridiculous. I am not going to write a 1000 word essay to be a member of your group. I have a life. We should all have lives outside of this game. I would like to see the ST do more events like the player who was building the spooky caves and got kicked off (lol). I have heard complaints of certain groups of players receiving more ST items than other groups though haven't seen it myself so can't substantiate that claim. Yes they should be allowed in leadership positions if they create something interesting. BUT there should be a storyline, it needs to move the narrative along.

Wars: Wars have always been bad and will always be bad. I don't understand why they are on a different server now when it was fine over a decade ago on the main server. It breaks the immersion. Never let anything like the Haense coalition and Pontifical State war happen ever again. Delay it if needed.

Hate speech & analogies on the server: Yesterday I jumped on and said "Hail" to the marshal of Burgundy and because his title is Kaiser was warned not to say it as it may have Nazi connotations....what the ****? Yes, ban obvious Nazis and others of their ilk. But this has gone too far. When it comes to things like trans rights and homophobia, I'm sorry to say it but people have these views. There are deeply religious Americans that play on this server that grew up in the bible belt and, while they are completely mental, they are entitled to those views. Challenge them on why they feel that way, show them you aren't a demonic gay, lesbian, trans, whatever you are. It crosses a line when they are personally attacking you for what you are, but to break conditioning of people they must be challenged. 

[Gridlock 1033]

I'm glad you aren't doing this for rep because you're not gettin' any from me 😤

[Priceflash 832]

Personally, if I was an admin I would focus on improving VIP benefits and hone in on monetization.

 

Call me crazy but money solves problems and ensuring the legacy of Lord of The Craft lives on to see another day is important. Since the EULA dropped we have dropped the ball on donator benefits. The actual hosting costs are relatively low but outside of that I am sure this website is not rolling in cash.

 

People who support the server deserve to feel rewarded for their support -- and this is coming from someone who has not sent a single dime to tythus ltd. And at the same time,  the server deserves more money so that its legacy can be cemented for generations to come. 

 

There is a day when Minecraft will lose relevance -- I would hate to see the day Lord of the Craft does, personally. This server has, out of any online community I have ever participated in, survived the longest. There is absolutely no other community I have been a part of that has survived this long. Admittedly, it has survived a very long time with very limited monetization efforts, but extra money = more fun!

 

One thing I have learned on this server in my long time of playing here is this -- nobody will ever agree on freebuild, a magic plugin, what the lore should be, pvp or no pvp default. However,  what we do agree on is we like this server, no matter what our vision for it is, and it has shaped the lives of countless who have played on it. Therefore, it is of the utmost importance we think to the future and do all we can to ensure it survives.