Happy Pride Month!

[Navigator 4260]

I'm not going to reply to the person because its pointless.

 

I'm Muslim. I don't give a shit about this ban, it does not infringe on my religion in any way, shape or form.

 

Let people express their personal liberties and rights without fearing for their lives or mental health.

 

EDIT: if its about IRP religion, cope even harder

[lemonke 6014]

58 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

I agree on the sexism tbh, there's no reason why it shouldn't be included in this list, sexism isn't more nuanced than racism or homophobia, it's just more socially acceptable.

Please ban the sexism, we need more women playing. And also?? More women in staff.

I lost you here, my friend. No one is NOT being allowed in the staff because they are a woman. Many staff members are quite helpful and good, such as @NightcastorKitty. I don't think people are not playing "women characters" because of sexism. Nectorist put it down in better words: let's not get too zealous and relax about it. 

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@NarthokMy instruction was VERY thorough, I was just so gay that I eventually exploded from suppressing myself, along with some other very bad experiences with the Roman Catholic Church. I am fully aware just how homophobic the church is, but it is not a prominent feature of the religion, like the ten commandments, or the Four Gospels. Yeah there's some homophobic stuff, but to insist that it is a main feature of the religion and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to roleplay a fantasy religion vaguely based on this religion without being a raging homophobe. It is simply not that important. I'm a Unitarian Universalist now. There are plenty of denominations of Christianity that aren't homophobic.

[Narthok 10416]

4 minutes ago, Velkuzat said:

let me preface this with: I'm very openly queer in orientation & gendah

 

 

Banning homophobic RP entirely is sort of silly? Of course, people have been shitty and RP'd it solely for OOC motives. I've seen it, but I've also seen them get rightfully hated out of whatever community they're in and, very often, banned for harassment. Just the type of people who do that RP.

 

However, it's also been a big part of some of mine, and friend's, and other peoples', characters' arcs. i.e., I had a noble gov character who had internalized homophobia because of how he was raised and hid his relationship with another man in the government for DECADEEES out of shame, it led to some interesting drama and development as people. I've also had characters who were genuinely hateful, some of them pivoted and became accepting because they had family, or friends, that were gay.

 

With how certain cultures in roleplay are (wether it's religious, familial, etc), it's natural for hatred of certain things to exist (besides human subrace racism, that was always weird), and I think while it's definitely in good spirit ban it, it's also just an attempt at a big fix-all "we don't think the players can handle this nuance, so it can no longer exist". At what point is it catering too much to people who really ought to step back and take a breather? I say we shrimply beat all the ooc homophobes to death anywho slay the month away my brothers and sisters

 

(and imho sexism rp is infinitely more annoying and evil to deal with than any homophobic rp I've encountered. put a girl on .. these rule discussions! srsly!!)

I broadly agree with the position Velkuzat outlines. There are certainly people who chud out and are just brutish for the sake of OOC. I think this contributes to the steady trend of babyfication that LOTC has been undergoing.

 

Should people be prevented from using crass slurs? Yeah I don't really have a problem with that I think that is how LOTC has been for a very long time and think it is a general good. Should ooc harassment be prevented by staff? Yes that's reasonable.

 

I do not like the babyfication of the server. And I do not like the degree to which disagreement is increasingly being prohibited by the platform. The Admins have obviously made up their mind on this issue though so the degree to which it is worth discussing further is negligible.

[Navigator 4260]

Just now, Fluffy Horror said:

@NarthokMy instruction was VERY thorough, I was just so gay that I eventually exploded from suppressing myself, along with some other very bad experiences with the Roman Catholic Church. I am fully aware just how homophobic the church is, but it is not a prominent feature of the religion, like the ten commandments, or the Four Gospels. Yeah there's some homophobic stuff, but to insist that it is a main feature of the religion and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to roleplay a fantasy religion vaguely based on this religion without being a raging homophobe. It is simply not that important. I'm a Unitarian Universalist now. There are plenty of denominations of Christianity that aren't homophobic.

Canonism isn't even based on Catholicism, its based on Muslim Pillars with Catholic iconography.

[Cheeseycereal 829]

17 minutes ago, Velkuzat said:

let me preface this with: I'm very openly queer in orientation & gendah

 

 

Banning homophobic RP entirely is sort of silly? Of course, people have been shitty and RP'd it solely for OOC motives. I've seen it, but I've also seen them get rightfully hated out of whatever community they're in and, very often, banned for harassment. Just the type of people who do that RP.

 

However, it's also been a big part of some of mine, and friend's, and other peoples', characters' arcs. i.e., I had a noble gov character who had internalized homophobia because of how he was raised and hid his relationship with another man in the government for DECADEEES out of shame, it led to some interesting drama and development as people. I've also had characters who were genuinely hateful, some of them pivoted and became accepting because they had family, or friends, that were gay.

 

With how certain cultures in roleplay are (wether it's religious, familial, etc), it's natural for hatred of certain things to exist (besides human subrace racism, that was always weird), and I think while it's definitely in good spirit ban it, it's also just an attempt at a big fix-all "we don't think the players can handle this nuance, so it can no longer exist". At what point is it catering too much to people who really ought to step back and take a breather? I say we shrimply beat all the ooc homophobes to death anywho slay the month away my brothers and sisters

 

Okay I knew I wasn’t crazy. Banning homophobia IC, transphobia IC, and other types of discrimination doesn’t actually fix the root of the problem. But when people get too much freedom with this stuff, it ends up being abused. It’s like a class getting a pizza party, some kids mess around so bad that now nobody gets pizza, even if others were enjoying it in a meaningful way.

 

I do like the direction things are going with more progressive ideas. I have a character who deals with internalized homophobia, that was a big part of their development. But if you want your cake at the table, everyone else needs to chill and be respectful too. And unfortunately, people just didn’t. So this is where we’re at.

 

I honestly think we could’ve had some really cool character arcs and stories come out of this. Characters bouncing off one another, exploring how it feels to be queer in a space where people around you are homophobic, that kind of internal + external conflict can lead to really  cool character arcs. It’s just a shame we lost that potential because some people couldn’t handle it responsibly.

[Cheese 8882]

18 minutes ago, Josh3738 said:

 

We discussed including sexism at length in drafting up this rule. The way I've tended to put it is that, of these big 4, the first 3 are fairly easily definable. You'll know it when you see it kind of thinking. The 4th, sexism, has some more nuance to it, and we wanted to take some more time to think on it and refine this with its inclusion when we're done.

is it that hard to talk to women about what they feel

[Hanrahan 2983]

actually based nice one 

[Narthok 10416]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@NarthokMy instruction was VERY thorough, I was just so gay that I eventually exploded from suppressing myself, along with some other very bad experiences with the Roman Catholic Church. I am fully aware just how homophobic the church is, but it is not a prominent feature of the religion, like the ten commandments, or the Four Gospels. Yeah there's some homophobic stuff, but to insist that it is a main feature of the religion and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to roleplay a fantasy religion vaguely based on this religion without being a raging homophobe. It is simply not that important. I'm a Unitarian Universalist now. There are plenty of denominations of Christianity that aren't homophobic.

The church's position on marriage and the sacred act wherein humans, in reflection of their status of images of God are empowered to make life in their own image has been clear for a very very long time. Its clear in the New and Old Testament, the Church Fathers were also very clear on the subject. 

You can certainly disagree with them, but that will generally just place you in error and contradiction with clear scripture. 

Again, you can choose to live how you want and this is not the place to litigate the issue. 

[faust 54]

Dare I say that as a queer person it just isn't fun roleplaying out a situation where someone's character is being actively homophobic (etc) when you can 90% of the time tell that it's just an ooc bias being roleplayed out

 

You can argue that it limits RP all you want but player comfortability should come first with things that very easily tend to feel like there is character bleed. We are in a fantasy setting play off of the fantasy shit not what directly mirrors real life

[kraltan raider 71]

This has to be some sort of fever dream... an intricate hoax or an administrative plot cause i just cant believe what my eyes are reading here ooohweeeh! awesome progression lotc, glad to see it! lowkey **** Canonism btw really shit lore

[Narthok 10416]

7 minutes ago, TaraJess said:

 

There is nowhere listing the religions of the world and saying if they are banned or not. If you want to rp your religion, that is fine, there are people that do it. They are saying you cannot be an racist, transphobic, or sexist. If that is too much for you to handle, the good thing about LOTC is there are so many different kinds of people and communities, you do not have to be around people you do not like. These groups of people get enough shit irl, God forbid they get on a game to enjoy their freetime for a few hours without having to worry about their irl issues be something they also have to worry about irp. 

 

TLDR don't like them? don't rp with them. nobody is attacking your religion

It is clear that this rule change applies to religions. I would like staff to clarify if these rules apply to legal institutions like primogeniture,  knighthood, clergy etc.

[Malta 2811]

1 minute ago, Narthok said:

It is clear that this rule change applies to religions. I would like staff to clarify if these rules apply to legal institutions like primogeniture,  knighthood, clergy etc.

bro ur pushing 30 hang it up

[TaraJess 2848]

1 minute ago, Narthok said:

It is clear that this rule change applies to religions. I would like staff to clarify if these rules apply to legal institutions like primogeniture,  knighthood, clergy etc.

i understand that, but unless you practice canonism irl, I do not see how this is an issue for you

[Pearlescent 585]

4 minutes ago, Narthok said:

I do not like the babyfication of the server.

Not allowing hate on the server = babyfication 

 

Maybe people like a space away from irl where they can feel good about themselves without being harassed by intolerant people because "it's part of my religion"