What do you think of the Empire and its contributions to the server?

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@KaiserNo? Don't put words in my mouth. If you see it happening, inform the player, and if they continue to do it, make a report. It's not that hard.

[Rig 17579]

19 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@KaiserSo what if they're jokes? Joking about that stuff isn't funny. We shouldn't encourage that.

 

@CheeseycerealI feel like people have zeroed in on a singular example I gave, Haelun'or, rather than addressing the entirety of my argument. People are so focused on going "BUT YOU SEE, HAELUN'OR WAS EVIL, SO THEREFORE WE WERE RIGHTEOUS!" I'm not arguing about the morality of the situation. This isn't about Haelun'or. In fact, forget Haelun'or!

 

People seem to be so, so upset that I am referring to the Empire as villainous, like that is a bad thing. It's not! Stories need villains! Do you genuinely think that Hadrian is a good guy, a hero? Do you think that Werewolf thinks that Hadrian is a good guy and a hero? No! He's playing a Caligula-like figure! He has gone out of his way to emphasize the character's cruelty. Same with a lot of other Empire characters. You do not need to be offended on their behalves. They know what they're doing.

 

People should try reading 'The Guide to Ethical Villainy'. I know my opinion is very controversial. I think that people have a responsibility to uplift those around them in RP, even if they're on opposite sides. I get that isn't the culture of LOTC.

 

@RigOkay, cool, people are poorly informed and don't know the symbolism of Rhodesia. I'm informing now. You are twisting yourself into pretzels to try to justify not doing anything about it. Is your genuine opinion "well, people don't know, and it's part of LOTC's history anyway, so just suck it up and keep watching people do it"? We can't maybe do something about it?

 

The Empire checks some boxes on the 10 Pillars, which is enough for me to consider it as fascist. You have a different threshold than I do,  clearly. Agree to disagree.

 

I told you to go to staff or the actual player to get them to rename their Maltese Cross. You're poorly informed, you don't know the symbolism of the Maltese Cross. I'm informing you now. You're twisting yourself into pretzels to justify not reading any concrete information about anything. Is your genuine opinion "Well, I'm going to double down on my ridiculous opinions, and everybody else must be wrong anyways because I'm unilaterally perfect, so just suck it up." You're legit bending head over heels over nothing. The difference is I'm going to laugh and keep on role-playing, and you're going to be lamenting that one time a Halfling mislabeled a harmless cross design while painting it on somebody's hand with his tiny fingers. You're not a sage or an intellectual, you're sitting here calling people fascists over their Minecraft faction having a Warhammer cross on the armor. You're single handedly winning every Westboro Baptist the culture war with how dog water your opinions are. 

 

Yes, the racially homogenous Empire, where a Halfling is the High Priest, and countless elves live in harmony. Yes, Caligula, I don't know man, Caligula doesn't seem PG13! 

[Kaiser 2347]

5 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@KaiserNo? Don't put words in my mouth. If you see it happening, inform the player, and if they continue to do it, make a report. It's not that hard.

 

I genuinely don't know how you did it but you single handedly made me disagree with my own opinion, even though I started this all out agreeing with you

[tasty_cheesecake 2298]

 

this is what i got when i googled "rhodesian cross" btw

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@RigCalling CHARACTERS fascists. Not people. Their CHARACTERS. They didn't call it the Maltese Cross. They called it the Rhodesian Cross.

 

Okay, Haelun'or was not a genocide. You have laid out the arguments to sufficiently prove otherwise. The Empire has not committed a genocide yet.

 

So, to lay out my "dogwater opinions" that you hard disagree about:

1. People should enforce not using the term Rhodesian Cross anymore, and correct people when they use it

2. Some people in power in the Empire are being deliberately villainous (do you feel they're the good guys?? Is this where this is coming from?? They're killing kids and advocating for the purging of entire races)

3. If you choose to play a villain character, you should be mindful about it

4. Each race should be allowed to maintain one place free of the influence of other races so that those who do not want to engage in racism/discrimination RP don't have to.

 

Is it all of these points we disagree with? I get it, I play differently than people, these are my opinions but the culture of the server is different. Hence why I'm outlining them here in an opinions thread instead of reporting to the admins or something. I know full well that points 3 and 4 will not happen on LOTC. I'm not going to enforce my own personal opinions on the culture.

 

My sticking point, the one thing that I believe actually needs to be dealt with, is the Rhodesian Cross thing. How hard is it to simply ask people to change one word? Can we call it the Maltese Cross? I'm not asking y'all to stop using the cross, just to enforce calling it literally anything else.

[𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍 2451]

A lot of this topic, I've noticed, has spiraled into rage-baiting and personal attacks, which I don't care much for, in a game where many characters will be warlords, whether they take themes from real-life wars and conquests matters little to me, as controversial and sensitive as it is to some. I'm commenting again to revisit the suggestion that the Empire of Man is evil. Perhaps that is the narrative the ST, Imperial Leadership, or opposition wants to spin. Still, I disagree with the notion that any Empire raised by any of the primary descendant races would be considered evil rather than self-interested. It's all a matter of perspective from each community. While I disagree with the extent of world dominance that is imposed on others, past and present, I think it would be just as unfair to destroy all the world-building the imperial characters have created for themselves and the Human communities.

It is a fact that the LoTC Staff & Admins have persistently failed to create an environment where each of the primary races has its own political agency in the world, while somehow maintaining a level of sanctuary that prevents the total destruction of a player community that generates activity in the game. For many maps, we've seen the rise and fall of Empires, along with the sheer annihilation of smaller communities, as well as several of the main race communities that have struggled to make something of what little they are given, as "shitty" as some claim they are. While for the most part I think alternative Kingdom communities would be fair game for vassalization or conquest, I think otherwise about the main race communities that should be provided with some asylum from total death. Of course, each should receive some loss or grief. Still, I have always found that the total collapse of a community is especially harmful to growing what is supposed to be a community server, or rather, constantly regrowing it from the ashes over the years, as neat as some might think it is for a narrative.

To describe this, I think back on Aegis and how Staff managed to maintain consistency and preserve the main communities, along with any alternative groups that rose. Was it because Minecraft was so popular back then that each community between the Elves, Humans, Orcs, and Dwarves had enough players to defend and repel any incoming invasion, or was it because Admins and Staff managed to keep stability through rules and didn't allow destruction of the main communities they wanted to grow, being crucial to the game and its narrative of the Four Brothers? I think there is certainly a balance that could be had where each primary descendant race could have grown an Empire of their own, all existing on the same map that Staff & Admins are simply neglecting or refusing to explore. As it stands, the start of this map is already on track for world domination and the submission of those independent of the Empire, which I think is unhealthy to allow, given the differences in cultures and religions among the primary races.
 

Spoiler

I always thought it would be fascinating to establish something like the For Honor Faction Map. Strongholds would be the capitals and RP Hub centers of main-race communities, providing a refuge that could potentially be looted and sacked in war but never fully conquered, leaving some room to recover. Ultimately, in this way, worldly domination could be achieved, to an extent and in essence, by conquering castles established in foreign lands and taking territories, but never by complete conquest or genocide of another main race hub or stronghold.

Probably not the proper place to insert this being that this thread is about the Empire's contributions and polling the community's favorability towards it, but it's a suggestion I wanted to share nonetheless.

[Werew0lf 24179]

The dribble about genocide and fantasy oppression has dialled down to your opinion being about a cross that two players unrelated to the Empire referred to as the Rhodesian cross. 
 

A monumental waste of time.

 

Also I’m not the bad guy. 

[_AzureLexi 766]

As xo31 put it,

 

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@Werew0lfNo, I have other opinions, I just agree that my other opinions are not popular enough to be implemented. But I think the enforcement of no name dropping Rhodesia is something that COULD realistically be enforced, therefore it is what I choose to advocate for.

 

C'mon man, enough with the trolling. Hadrian is a madman after world domination. You have written a very compelling villain. Take credit where it's due, don't cheapen your writing by insisting that Hadrian is the good guy.

[Rig 17579]

3 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@RigCalling CHARACTERS fascists. Not people. Their CHARACTERS. They didn't call it the Maltese Cross. They called it the Rhodesian Cross.

 

Okay, Haelun'or was not a genocide. You have laid out the arguments to sufficiently prove otherwise. The Empire has not committed a genocide yet.

 

So, to lay out my "dogwater opinions" that you hard disagree about:

1. People should enforce not using the term Rhodesian Cross anymore, and correct people when they use it

2. Some people in power in the Empire are being deliberately villainous (do you feel they're the good guys?? Is this where this is coming from?? They're killing kids and advocating for the purging of entire races)

3. If you choose to play a villain character, you should be mindful about it

4. Each race should be allowed to maintain one place free of the influence of other races so that those who do not want to engage in racism/discrimination RP don't have to.

 

Is it all of these points we disagree with? I get it, I play differently than people, these are my opinions but the culture of the server is different. Hence why I'm outlining them here in an opinions thread instead of reporting to the admins or something. I know full well that points 3 and 4 will not happen on LOTC. I'm not going to enforce my own personal opinions on the culture.

 

My sticking point, the one thing that I believe actually needs to be dealt with, is the Rhodesian Cross thing. How hard is it to simply ask people to change one word? Can we call it the Maltese Cross? I'm not asking y'all to stop using the cross, just to enforce calling it literally anything else.

 

1. Rhodesian Cross doesn't exist. Telling people to stop saying "Rhodesian" has never been in question, it's the fact the cross itself literally does not exist as a Rhodesian Cross. As I said multiple times, staff could help with that.

2. Some people in every nation are bad guys. Every country kills kids. Every country has a few racists. Imperial foreign policy is not bent on this, however. That is evident through the fact that protectorates have their own cultures, laws, and there's only a few imperial laws which are preserved in them. Nation-states all go "good" or "evil" things. The Empire itself does not have anymore of a fascistic slant than Haense did. The difference is that one is a neocolonial power that exercised soft power through backroom deals and threats, and the Empire is a literal Empire. There's not even really any one-sided material extraction given the nature of Minecraft's mechanics. Everybody is just sharing their mines and sharing military support, like an over-glorified big alliance. 

3. People who do villainous things are. My character is a villain and I just do Henry Kissinger RP, but the average guard, citizen, or random duke/knight is not really doing that. There's a myriad of different characters and many of the people in imperial leadership have varying political/social alignments. 

4. No. That's just frankly ridiculous. As a former Rex of the Orcs, if I launch a war as the Rex of the Orcs and kill somebody's friends, and they want to sack me in response, they have that right. Infringing on player sandbox/freedoms is how you create an atmosphere that solely consists of SOL/Romance content. LoTC has had these kinds of war mechanics for 12 years and ought not to change that. We can fundamentally disagree on that, I don't mind.

 

[Werew0lf 24179]

5 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@Werew0lfNo, I have other opinions, I just agree that my other opinions are not popular enough to be implemented. But I think the enforcement of no name dropping Rhodesia is something that COULD realistically be enforced, therefore it is what I choose to advocate for.

 

C'mon man, enough with the trolling. Hadrian is a madman after world domination. You have written a very compelling villain. Take credit where it's due, don't cheapen your writing by insisting that Hadrian is the good guy.

Well, if you’re going to glaze me, I guess I am the bad guy. -smirks-

 

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@Rig1. Rhodesian Cross refers to the Cross of Rhodesia, a Rhodesian military decoration. Staff can only deal with so much. We as players should be spreading around the correction, too. People shouldn't get reported for using something in ignorance.

 

2. I wasn't around for Haense, so I have no idea how fascist or not fascist it was. Yes, everyone everywhere is doing bad things, it's not just limited to the Empire, but because the Empire is so much bigger, the scale at which they commit war crimes is much bigger, too.

 

3. Not always! I've seen a lot of bad faith villainy on LOTC.

 

4. Yup, that's a disagreement I'm cool with.

 

@𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍Yes, all of this!

@Werew0lfWhat the **** does glaze mean

[Rig 17579]

7 minutes ago, Fluffy Horror said:

@Rig1. Rhodesian Cross refers to the Cross of Rhodesia, a Rhodesian military decoration. Staff can only deal with so much. We as players should be spreading around the correction, too. People shouldn't get reported for using something in ignorance.

 

2. I wasn't around for Haense, so I have no idea how fascist or not fascist it was. Yes, everyone everywhere is doing bad things, it's not just limited to the Empire, but because the Empire is so much bigger, the scale at which they commit war crimes is much bigger, too.

 

3. Not always! I've seen a lot of bad faith villainy on LOTC.

 

4. Yup, that's a disagreement I'm cool with.

 

@𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍Yes, all of this!

 

1. All this over a discontinued military service badge that multiple countries have been using in other contexts for a long time, smh. Britain, Australia, the Philippines, the U.S., India, Portugal, etc. Some fire departments use it. That doesn't make them all have the same meaning. 

 

2. The unique emphasis on the Empire as a single body rather than 5 (or more) different player bases is pretty important. 

 

3. That's why you report it and there's a system for dealing with it. People who do that stuff get blacklisted.

[_AzureLexi 766]

"Cross of Rhodesia" having a tiny wiki page for a specific military award, and "Maltese Cross" having a super duper long one for the symbol at large.

 

Give me rep now.

[Fluffy Horror 496]

@Rig1. All this over the name. And it didn't need to be all this, it's a very, very easy solution.

 

2. The Empire is both a single body and a group of other nations.

 

3. No they dooooon't, people be doing bad faith villainy all over the place with no consequences