Request to Staff: NAVAL COMBAT (Maritime-System-SIMPLIFIED)

[i.uomini 2552]

 

Naval Combat

The Maritime System [Book 4/4]-A

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[*] - This symbol represents a value or mechanic that is negotiable, not integral to the system, and can be easily changed based on community input. [See the bottom of this post]

 

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Section 0/8

INTRODUCTION

 

CONTENTS:

Section 0 - Introduction

Section 1 - Aspects of a Ship

Section 2 - Rules & Process (simple)

Section 3 - Damage & Defense

Section 4 - Unit Displays

^[*]Section 5A - Battle Setups (option 1)

^[*]Section 5B - Battle Setups (option 2)

Section 6 - Engagement Process (full)

^[*]Section 7 - (Optional Mechanic) Ship Classes

Section 8 - Definitions & Vocabulary

][- Community Tags -][

 

The following document is a highly shortened & simplified version of the original version seen in the link here.

Spoiler

 

This simplification is an attempt to reduce the barriers to implementation so that those wishing to participate in naval combat may do so. Do not be upset by the length of this document, it is mostly big text and pictures that take up space.

The 4 keywords which are necessary for understanding, are defined at the bottom, and are also Capitalized throughout the document.

There is an obvious question here; 'If this is an appeal to staff, which team?' - I think Mod team is the answer, if moving around ships is their purview. Aside from the moving of vessels from one place to another, I intentionally made this system with as little staff interaction as possible as to not require deep monitoring and backlog.

In few words; the 'request to staff' i am referring to is this; "Please consider implementing a system for naval combat in lotc" - it doesnt even have to be this one, but I wish for ships to be AT LEAST as useful for rp and mechanical war as they are for scenery and nice accents on a map from a zoomed out persepective.

 

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Section 1/8

Aspects of a Ship

 

Hull (Health): 

• The UNITS of hull determine the ship’s ability to stay in the battle
• If all UNITS of hull are destroyed, the ship is removed from the battle
• Indicated by the first column, on the left of the display board

 

Cannons (Attack):

• The UNITS of cannons determine the ship’s ability to damage other ships
• If all UNITS of cannons are destroyed, warships can no longer attack other ships
• Indicated by the third column, on the right of the display board

 

Sails (Defense): 

• The UNITS of sails determine the ship’s ability to dodge enemy attacks
• If all UNITS of sails are destroyed, warships can no longer defend from attacks
• Indicated by second column, in the middle of the display board

 

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Section 2/8

Rules & Process - Simplified

[See Section 6/8 for Full Version]

[Rules]

- Ships may only attack 1 ASPECT (either Hull, Sails, or Cannons) per turn

- Ships must only roll for attack and defense according to how many UNITS are in the corresponding ASPECT-column [see section 4/8]

- Ship Captains must announce the STATUS of their ship after each turn to signify the end of their turn [see vocabulary 8/8]

 

[Process]

1. You (the ship with the first turn) will choose an ASPECT of the enemy ship, and roll for attack
2. The 2nd ship will roll for defense
3. The 2nd ship will adjust its display as needed
4. Your ship will send it’s STATUS

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5. The 2nd ship will choose an ASPECT of your ship, and roll for attack
6. Your ship will roll for defense
7. Your ship will adjust its display if needed
8. The 2nd ship will send it’s STATUS

• This process continues until all Hull UNITS of a faction’s ships are destroyed.
• After all Hull UNITS have been destroyed, the victorious faction will choose to Capture or Sink the enemy ship(s). [Section 6/8]

 

 

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Section 3/8

Damage & Defense

 

The damage which one ship does to another is decided by the number of Cannons UNITS that ship has; after an ASPECT of an enemy ship is selected, the attacking ship will /roll according to the Cannons UNITS

• 1 UNIT = /roll 4
• 2 UNITS = /roll 8
• 3 UNITS = /roll 12
• 4 UNITS = /roll 16

 

The damage that a ship prevents is decided by the number of Sails UNITS that ship has; after the attack roll has been made by the enemy ship, the defending ship will /roll according to the Sails UNITS. If the defense roll is higher than the attack roll, then no damage is taken.

• 1 UNIT = /roll 4
• 2 UNITS = /roll 8
• 3 UNITS = /roll 12
• 4 UNITS = /roll 16

 

UNITS (The wool blocks) take damage when hit. If the green UNIT at the top of the column takes damage, it becomes a yellow(!) UNIT to show effect. When a yellow UNIT takes damage, it turns into a red(!!) UNIT. Red UNITS which take damage are removed from the board. Any future damage to that ASPECT will be done to the green wool block below it. When STATUSES are given, (!)s are given next to the number of UNITS to show how much damage the current UNIT has taken.

 

CRITICAL HITS: If the attacking ship rolls the maximum attack roll, this is a critical hit, and the UNIT which would normally be damaged, is entirely removed from the board. 

When a UNIT is damaged enough to be completely removed from the board, then that ASPECT of the ship will be diminished. This means (for example), if 1 out of 3 UNITS of Cannons/Sails are removed, the attacks/defenses (respectively) must /roll 8 instead of /roll 12. 

 

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Section 4/8

Unit Displays

[Display board]

In front or on the deck of each ship, there will be a ‘Display Board’ which will have 3 columns (one for each ASPECT) and 3 rows (# of UNITS). This is one of the 2 ways in which everyone will keep track of the STATUS of friendly and enemy ships.

(Figure A: Display Board Default) |-*-| (Figure B: Damage Sequence)  

There are 3 columns, one for each ASPECT of the ship (Figure-A). When UNITS are damaged, they are changed from the TOP -> DOWN (Figures B/C/D).

 

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( Figure C: SS Baxton-A 2! - 3 - 3!! ) |-*-| ( Figure D: SS Baxton-B 2 - 2!! - 2! )

 

The following is an example of a ship in the middle of battle. Some UNITS are missing and so the ship will be compromised in some ways. The STATUS of the first ship (Figure-C) would be expressed by the following; 

{SS Baxton-A:  2! - 3 - 3!!}

The STATUS of the second ship (Figure-D) would be expressed by the following; 

{SS Baxton-B: 2 - 2!! - 2!}

 

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Section 5a/8

Battle Setups^[*1] (Option 1)(preferable)

 

Ship and Fleet arrangements

• When ships are engaging 1 vs 1, they will be arranged facing each other, with the forward tips of their ships some distance of blocks away.
• When fleets (more than 1v1) are battling eachother, they will be lined up side-to-side, facing the enemy, who will be lined up in the same way. (Figures A&B)
• The fleets will always be centered at a single point in the water, as seen by the figures below.

(Figure A - Example of fleet v.s. fleet arrangement)
(Figure B - Fleet Arrangement with Display-Boards labelled)

(Figures D/E/F - Outlines of ship & fleet arrangements)

 

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Section 5b/8

Battle Setups^[*2] (Option 2)

 

Ship and Fleet arrangements

• When ships are engaging 1 vs 1, they will be arranged parallel to eachother, facing in opposite directions.
• When fleets are battling eachother, the fleets will be parallel to each other and facing in opposite directions. If the number of ships in one fleet is not equal to another (for example a fleet of 3 ships battling a fleet of 2 ships), then the ships in the middle will line up non-directly, with both ship lines being centered at a point in the water. (Figure E)
• If two full fleets are facing eachother, each ship will be directly across from another still parallel with the enemy, and lined up directly in front or behind their allied ships (Figure C)

(Figures A/B/C - Example of Ship & Fleet arrangement)

(Figures D/E/F - Outlines of ship & fleet arrangements)

 

 

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Section 6/8

Engagement Process - Full

 

Prior to the battle, both Ship captains (or admirals, if a fleet) will /roll out of 100, the higher number will have the first turn.[*3] 

The ship with the first turn will be hereafter referred to as the ’First Ship’

 

1. The first ship will select the ASPECT of the enemy ship to attack (Hull, Sails, Cannons). 
2. The first ship will roll to attack 
3. The second ship will roll for its defense. 
   1. If the first ship’s attack number is above the second ship’s defense number, then the UNIT of the selected ASPECT will take damage, and it’s display will be adjusted accordingly.
   2. If the first ship’s attack number is below the second ship’s defense number, then no damage will be done to the ship’s ASPECT.
4. The First ship’s turn is complete, the captain will announce the STATUS of his ship in the following format; 
   1. {[Ship Name] - Hull UNITS - Sails UNITS - Cannons UNITS} 
   2. Ship captains should double check that their display boards are properly updated according to the damage done to their ship. 
   3. If there is ever a confusion, the captains can always issue a CLARIFICATION STATUS, which will ensure that all captains are on the same page in terms of ship STATUSES.
5. The second ship will then select the ASPECT of the enemy to attack (Hull, Sails, Cannons). 
6. The second ship will roll to attack 
7. The first ship will roll for defense. 
   1. If the second ship’s attack number is above the first ship’s defense number, then the UNIT of the selected ASPECT will take damage, and it’s display will be adjusted accordingly.
   2. If the second ship’s attack number is below the first ship’s defense number, then no damage will be done to the ship’s ASPECT

This process will continue until a faction’s ship/fleet is destroyed or surrenders - at which point the victorious faction makes the choice of EITHER boarding OR sinking enemy ships.

 

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[Fleet Battles]

This same process takes place when multiple ships are involved on each side, with each ship within the First-Fleet taking it’s turn, then each ship of the Second-Fleet taking it’s turn.

Ships may target any ship of the enemy fleet, and are not required to only target their direct opposite.

 

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AFTER BATTLE - [Sinking & Capturing]

The Victorious side in the battle will decide to either sink or capture the enemy ship(s). Once a choice has been made, (for example, to board and capture), it must be followed through upon, and failure of the action will not allow for the other action to be done; The remaining defeated ship/fleet will return to it’s port for repairs.

Sinking a Ship:

Sinking an enemy ship will destroy it completely, removing it out of use for anyone. To do this, the victorious ship/fleet must /roll 100 - any number GREATER OR EQUAL TO 75 will result in the ship being sunk.

Sinking of a fleet must happen by individual ships, so each ship in a defeated fleet requires it’s own /roll 100 with a result of 75+ in order to be successfully sunk.[*4]

 

Capturing a Ship:

Capturing an enemy ship will bring it into the possession of the victorious faction. In order to capture a ship, it must be boarded in pvp, with all defenders of the vessel fleeing or dying in the defense.

1. When a capture attempt is announced, both teams will status-up, and a countdown will begin. All weapons are allowed in the offense and defense of the ship(s).
   1. If a ship within a fleet is targeted for boarding, all ships of that fleet will participate in the boarding offense and defense, making it an entire Fleet v.s. Fleet pvp battle.
2. If the boarding attempt is unsuccessful, the naval engagement is still considered a victory, but the defending ships of the boarding may return to their ports and must be subject to the repair periods before being used again.
3. Flagships (The main ship of a Nation/Settlement) cannot be captured or sunk (they can be boarded), but if defeated will be unavailable for use for 14 days[*5]
4. If a fleet is victorious in battle, but has had ships disabled, those disabled ships will return home and be unavailable for 7 days[*6]

 

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Section 7/8

^[*7](OPTIONAL) - Ship Classes^[*7]

 

[Ship Types]

For the purpose of realism and the increased power of grander ships, it may be useful to add a system of Ship Classes, which will modify the amount of  Hull, Sails, or Cannons UNITS available for different ships based on Criteria. This will, negatively, change the standard 3x3 layout of the display boards, but in return will allow for greater ships to have a greater effect.

 

[Sloop]

Sloops are lightly armored small ships. 

• These have 1-2 sail masts, and are no wider than 6 blocks. Sloops are allowed no more than 3 cannons per side
• The standard UNIT count for a sloop is, THEORETICALLY… 
  • (Hull = 3, Sails = 3, Cannons = 3)

 

[Frigate]

Frigates are well armed & armored ships with two or more deck levels. 

• These have 2-3 sail masts, and are no wider than 9 blocks. Frigates are allowed no more than 6 cannons per side
• The standard UNIT count for a frigate is, THEORETICALLY… 
  • (Hull = 3, Sails = 4, Cannons = 3)

 

[Galley]

Galleys are the largest and most armored ships with at least 3 deck levels.

• These have 3 or more sail masts, and are no wider than 12 blocks. Galleys are allowed any amount of cannons the designers may wish.
• The standard UNIT count for a Galley is, THEORETICALLY… 
  • (Hull = 3, Sails = 4, Cannons = 4)

 

[Steam-Ship / IRONCLAD]

Ironclad are semi-sub-surface vessels with engines, which will be considered the defensive ASPECT to account for mobility. 

• These have no sail masts (using engines instead), and are no wider than 8 blocks. Ironclad are allowed no more than 3 cannons/mortars.
• The standard UNIT count for an Ironclad is, THEORETICALLY… 
  • (Hull = 4, Engine = 3, Mortars = 4)

 

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Section 8/8

DEFINITIONS & VOCABULARY

 

UNIT - The wool blocks used to indicate how in-tact each ASPECT of a ship is.

 

ASPECT - The parts (Hull, Sails, Cannons) which are used to conduct ship-combat.

 

STATUS - The condition of each ASPECT of a ship, attached to the ship name for identification

{[Ship Name] - Hull UNITS - Sails UNITS - Cannons UNITS} 

 

FLEET - A collection of up to 3 warships which may battle against other fleets.

 

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Community Tags

 

[*1] - Arranging the ships in physical space while keeping them at a reasonable distance will be difficult. The first option for how to do so is described in the section; and I will only note that this is preferable for the ability it gives all ship captains to see the STATUS display-boards of all enemy ships.

 

[*2] - The second option is aesthetically useful for it’s realism and appeal to both historical and media depictions of naval battles. It does, however, require more open space on the water, and prevents the full view of STATUS display-boards from both friendly and enemy ships.

 

[*3] - This mechanic uses /roll 100 to decide who gets the first turn (the higher roll) in a naval engagement. Other ways of deciding could also be used, however.

 

[*4] - 75+ makes for a 1/4 chance of the defeated ship being completely destroyed. Is this a reasonable probability to put onto it based on how rare and valuable combat-ships are at this point? 80+, 1/5 saving chance was also considered. What do you think?

 

[*5] - Flagships are intended to be non-sinkable, but still vulnerable to defeat. If they are defeated, 2 weeks might be a long time to not be able to use it, perhaps 10 days would be more fitting? Alternatively, SHOULD FLAGSHIPS BE IMMUNE TO CAPTURE & SINKING TO BEGIN WITH?

 

[*6] - In the event that a fleet wins a battle against another, it is reasonable that it’s defeated ships could be salvaged and repaired, this would presumably increase the dynamism and therefore fun, of naval wars. The question must be asked, however, is 7 days too long of a time to wait for repairs?

 

[*7] - Many different types of ships exist on Lotc, design wise. We have the option to allow these different ship-types to play proportionally larger or smaller roles depending on the amount of value which would normally be ascribed to them (in terms of size and weaponry). Additionally, there exist some non-sail-based ships such as steamboats/ironclads which people theorize should be included into the system. Much deliberation and debate will be necessary for these classifications, and TO NOTE: the numbers given in this optional section make sense, but are only examples of the potential disposition.

 

 

 

[Yeetboy0206 1574]

Trust Lomiei, he’s probably the most dedicated person on the server I know when it comes to designing something to this scale. He’s awesome!

[Spellblades 749]

Exciting post; I don't believe I've seen much naval roleplay in general during my time playing. Good job :D

[Asutto 2452]

this is the simplified version?

[FlemishSupremacy 6115]

boy i'd hate to see the unsimplified system

While I'm definitly in favor of having some system designed to make ship stuff a little more functional (I made a similar post in Almaris, shameless plug:

), I somewhat believe that this roll based system overcomplicates things and the ship classes are really restrictive. 

Overall, I think any system that mainly relies on people rolling will be very boring for everyone but the captain's rolling.

 

[Xarkly 17299]

I haven't read the full thing but I'll tell you straight-up a system this long could never feasibly be implemented -- that's not at all to say it's bad, but a core tenet of good conflict rules is to make them as simple as possible. 

[woke 1157]

Request to Tech Team: Mechanically useable battleships plugin 🔥

[i.uomini 2552]

7 minutes ago, Asutto said:

this is the simplified version?

I had a feeling someone would say this but essentially yes, its based off a much larger and more complex system that I cut down, but works in progress can always be further refined. you never know.

[i.uomini 2552]

7 minutes ago, FlemishSupremacy said:

boy i'd hate to see the unsimplified system

While I'm definitly in favor of having some system designed to make ship stuff a little more functional (I made a similar post in Almaris, shameless plug:

), I somewhat believe that this roll based system overcomplicates things and the ship classes are really restrictive. 

Overall, I think any system that mainly relies on people rolling will be very boring for everyone but the captain's rolling.

 

I have to apologize, I did research for so long to see if anyone had these ideas back when I released my original system 2-3 years ago. I could not find this anywhere BUT it seems we both had similar ideas on certain mechanics.
The 'un-simplified system', i agree, was much too large and complex to put in lotc, but im thinking with this one, as a proposal; only the parts that matter to combat and movement will really need to be put in any rules section for it. Nevertheless I made sure to elaborate everything on my side, so that there wouldnt be any confusion or grey area if something similar would ever be implemented.

As for the rolling mechanic, I agree that it would struggle to provide constant interest in the non-captain players on the ships, though various styles of rp would naturally arise both before and during battle, nevertheless, if not a rolling system, i imagine the battles would reach something closer to a ship-to-ship CRP, which would make battles last irl weeks or something thereabouts. The ship classes I think are not the most necessary, id prefer to just have all ships the same, but I could imagine certain people with bigger ships would hate that idea when faced against a 3-cannon schooner with equal stats. thats a deep debate I wouldnt have the confidence to force my own opinion on, thats why the ship class section is optional as a whole.

Thank you for your response overall, i will have to do a deep look into your system and hopefully one of ours gets implemented in some way or form

16 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

I haven't read the full thing but I'll tell you straight-up a system this long could never feasibly be implemented -- that's not at all to say it's bad, but a core tenet of good conflict rules is to make them as simple as possible. 

This is a true point - I had it in mind the whole time I was both making this and when I was stripping it down, I even wanted to make it in the same format as what we see in the combat rules section of the forums, but I decided against it. 

I dont have a rebuttal to the argument of it's length being a barrier to implementation, but I will say; most of the finer details would not need to be included in the final implementation. My vision for clarifying each detail was to prevent any grey-areas or confusions later. the core of the system would mostly be found in sections 1-4 of the overall document. 
Nevertheless, I dont think it would ruin the whole system if I continued to cut and chop it down, but who knows how long that will take. Only time will tell. 
Thank you for responding to my post.
 

Spoiler

Sigismund III was the best king of Haense. - Krusae zwy kongzem

 

[Nectorist 12869]

I honestly think something like this is better off as a ruleset agreed to by nations at war, aided by whatever staff can use worldedit to move the boats, than as an official set of war rules. It conflicts a lot with the staff team’s preferred direction for wars, but it would be perfect as something utilized by two warring parties between themselves.

[i.uomini 2552]

28 minutes ago, Nectorist said:

I honestly think something like this is better off as a ruleset agreed to by nations at war, aided by whatever staff can use worldedit to move the boats, than as an official set of war rules. It conflicts a lot with the staff team’s preferred direction for wars, but it would be perfect as something utilized by two warring parties between themselves.

Youre quite right I think. 
so long as mods/ct could move the boats, thats all the input needed, and individual mechanics can be modified or added as prefered by the war leaders. Good point.

@Javert@Werew0lfwhat do you think of this post? if I cut it down a bit more and simplified it further, would yall be interested in testing some of these mechanics out for this war?
@Based1Salmonwhat about you?

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

Arrrrgh

 

@Metaphobia...

[Metamancy 1761]

Okay so.

I haven't read the entire thing, so forgive me if I'm missing anything. But quite simply, this cannot work.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea and if it could be flawlessly implemented, I might even go as far as to say it might be better for the server and make naval warfare much more interesting.

But like Xarkly said. The essence of good conflict is simplicity. This is already visible on a much smaller scale, with the example of wars; PvP resolves conflict much faster than CRP. There is a balance that has to be made between complicated, fun roleplay and simple, engaging gameplay. This wonderful system you have come up with, unfortunately, blows this balance out of the water.

It's clear you've put a looot of thought into this, so I do feel terrible just saying "oh yeah this can never work," but if a system like this were to be implemented, this very post would have to be at least a sixth, or even a seventh (heh) of the length. 

Don't get me wrong. You've done a really great job, and a system like this might work on its own server that is based around this system, or a new video game entirely. 

I just don't think this is viable in terms of LOTC. As a (former) pirate fleet admiral (self-appointed, heh), I think that rp, in essence, should maintain that balance between complicated roleplay and simple dopamine-inducing fun, and I think there's a lot of work that is necessary on this system before that balance is reached.

Only the best of luck with this! I really like where it's going. 

[i.uomini 2552]

38 minutes ago, Metaphobia said:

Okay so.

I haven't read the entire thing, so forgive me if I'm missing anything. But quite simply, this cannot work.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea and if it could be flawlessly implemented, I might even go as far as to say it might be better for the server and make naval warfare much more interesting.

But like Xarkly said. The essence of good conflict is simplicity. This is already visible on a much smaller scale, with the example of wars; PvP resolves conflict much faster than CRP. There is a balance that has to be made between complicated, fun roleplay and simple, engaging gameplay. This wonderful system you have come up with, unfortunately, blows this balance out of the water.

It's clear you've put a looot of thought into this, so I do feel terrible just saying "oh yeah this can never work," but if a system like this were to be implemented, this very post would have to be at least a sixth, or even a seventh (heh) of the length. 

Don't get me wrong. You've done a really great job, and a system like this might work on its own server that is based around this system, or a new video game entirely. 

I just don't think this is viable in terms of LOTC. As a (former) pirate fleet admiral (self-appointed, heh), I think that rp, in essence, should maintain that balance between complicated roleplay and simple dopamine-inducing fun, and I think there's a lot of work that is necessary on this system before that balance is reached.

Only the best of luck with this! I really like where it's going. 

Thank you for your response to this. I dont take any offense to what you said nor do i disagree with any of it. It is the best thing to release these ramblings in their current state, because as much as i like it, if it cant be used or understood by others, that must be said. In the future there will hopefully be simpler, more workable systems, this is just 1 step in the staircase. Perhaps only half-way up.
I dont know if it will be me or someone else, but hopefully there will be a naval system soon, or at least a discussion between war-leaders as to how they want to conduct naval wars.

one thing i will never compromise on; is that PEOPLE NEED TO USE BOATS (plz). However it happens, will be good for the community in my eyes.
 

[PoliteEquation7 187]

Adrian put on his floaties, excited to go swimming.