[✗] [Rewrite] Ologs - Krug's Indomitable

[spaazmatism 1018]

make ologs cool again

[MysticalWeasel 910]

5 hours ago, Panashea said:

I think tying strength to a specific race directly goes against the Techlock and the ideas of outlining how combat works mechanically. "Orc Strength" and "Olog"  have been clarified in amendments within Tawkin, but not in the core race lore by itself.  Current olog lore only describes it as lifting strength, and has nothing to do with combative prowess or efficacy. 

So you suggest other lore pieces reword their strength caps when using certain abilities that increase the user to large amounts? 

[King_Kunuk 3022]

I actually think this is oddly decent. I would probably remove the idea of them learning magics entirely, but I like how they been given more ability of intelligence.

 

Still should make sure there is a no TFB clause if it doesn't exist already.

[Panashea 3323]

1 hour ago, MysticalWeasel said:

So you suggest other lore pieces reword their strength caps when using certain abilities that increase the user to large amounts? 

 

In general yes, the "olog strength" numbers don't actually exist on the olog page, they ONLY exist on the Tawkinist bolstered strength spoilered redline. There's no reason for Azdrazi or Zar'akal to say olog strength when 3x descendant or 2x descendant actually represents how combat works.  It'd also be easier/more interesting to have varied numbers for all these different creatures.

[Slorbin 2932]

Letting them learn magics is honestly OP as **** but I'm not opposed to the idea of making them a *bit* smarter.

[Muckelpu 291]

Despite wanting to see a an Olog voidmage...i am afraid of the Kani Olog min maxxers...I don't think that they should be able to learn "higher" magics, it would make them Op from my pov. Though I could see them being able to learn the whymsical magics, like Housemagery or Bardmancy. The minor soulbased magic so to say.

As for feats...I always somewhat headcannoned that something the size of an OLOG or BRUTUS golem doesn't posses the finess/dexterity to work something like Alchemy, or make little clay men like sorvians without breaking them...that is just my headcannon for giants trying to work with in comparison tiny plants and sticks...

[Jaslaw 602]

10 hours ago, BakedPotato said:

I simply dont think its as op as you think it. Anyone can powergame even without CAs, MAs, and items. Subraces exist so everyones not forced into playing the same character, thats why there are 4 different human subraces, a billion different elves, multiple different dwarves. Orcs deserve some variety too, olog is an orc subrace which i feel is being mitigated a lot. Its the same reason people choose to play goblins when they could play an uruk, because they want to. People who play uruks now play them because they want to. People who play ologs play them because they want to. If you play an olog for the mentality nothing stops you from keeping your olog dumb, this just opens doors but still less doors than uruks. If you want to play an olog to be taller than an uruk then ok, a subrace’s purpose is to provide variety. This aims to help balance olog’s currently op strength. Helmet offered good feedback, a lot of your earlier complaints were solved by reading, if you have actual criticism beyond they’re op then please add but I’ve already engaged with you beyond what I should.

 

The issue with that is that this is not just a ''subrace'' for flavor. This is a race that gives special abilities and boons, and you can just become it from the get go after one day waking up and going ''why not''

 

No other subrace has this sort of stuff, so you can not honestly compare different aesthetics to full out CRP abilities, extreme size which will have people going ''ur weapon smol it doesn't do anything :D'', and on top of that allows you to use magic and do everything else any normal character would but with insane power ''cuz why not''

 

And just because there are people out there that won't choose to go for a stronger option out of sheer lazyness to write an app that can genuinely be done in an hour or so doesn't make it any better. Yes people choose to play goblins over orcs, but that is usually because they want magic or are interested in more chill things- goblin and orc are not the same type of player, but orc and Olog would be. Because it is litterally just what orc is but even more op.

 

It is not really ''less'' doors than Uruks, you can still do the exact same things as an Uruk would, you can still do reaserch, you can stack feets, you can learn magic, and basically just do anything you want without paying the cost most CAs have. Be it PK claus, specific weaknesses, or heck even a hit counter that ST love to slap onto dark CAs.

 

When you actually look at it every other CA has at least some cost to their abilities. Meanwhile this rewrite just lets you play as a giant Uruk, with extra abilities, and nothing to justify its power.

 

When rewriting Ologs it shouldn't just be ''Uruks but better'' it should be its own thing or AT LEAST come with the banes that being an Obese 10 feet tall monster should bring like slower movement and unability to wear full plate armour due to it restricting movement too much

 

If the rewrite had stuff like that I would have no issue with it, but it doesn't. It is litterally just trying to make op Uruks that are as strong, or even stronger than currently existing Dark CA's which have creation cooldowns and specific requirements

 

So yes, I absolutely hate to see Ologs that are their own thing be used as an excuse to basically just buff orcs

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

 

Hozh. You have my notes; I hope this gives Olog players more agency to breathe extra complexity into a creature otherwise seen as nothing more than cannon fodder. 

 

Keep up the good work, Panashea. You're putting in effort and it's seen. 

[Ropceek 80]

Orcs that have either restrained or willing have become an olog, does that mean they can revert the rite and become orcs again if they are willing or is this permanent? Also clarify if the rite requires the players OOC consent in order to turn into an Olog.

Edited May 13 by Ropceek

[Panashea 3323]

4 hours ago, Muckelpu said:

Despite wanting to see a an Olog voidmage...i am afraid of the Kani Olog min maxxers...I don't think that they should be able to learn "higher" magics, it would make them Op from my pov. Though I could see them being able to learn the whymsical magics, like Housemagery or Bardmancy. The minor soulbased magic so to say.

 

Ologs can already learn house magic. An olog who uses Kani cannot use it in conjunction with their olog strength, as there is an explicit redline on it. Otherwise their strength is just uruk. Void mage ologs would suffer similiarly, weakening them to the same degree as a void mage orc. The innate armor pushes them out of Kani anyway, so I'm fine  making it a double redline.

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

12 hours ago, MysticalWeasel said:

17 hours ago, Panashea said:

The Game 

Expand  

So you suggest other lore pieces reword their strength caps when using certain abilities that increase the user to large amounts? 

 

Is this not a no brainer inevitablity when we quote external lore in our unrelated lore submissions?

 

I don't think Lore A should be at all held in stasis simply because Lore B decided to use A as a reference. Likely without consultation with A's writer to begin with. 

 

---

 

Very curious to see how many people read the post in full before commenting. This is unrelated to the above criticism. 

[Thalyric 72]

I like this rewrite. I personally don't like the idea of Ologs learning any sort of intelligence based feat or magic, though, but that's just personal preference I guess.

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

18 hours ago, Jaslaw said:

Yea... I read it and absolutely hate this.

In  my eyes it is not much more than an attempt at creating ''orc +'' with taking away the HUGE bane of being an Olog, that being their simple minds and unability to cast magics or learn feats. It has some good ideas, like giving them some armour when not wearing any ((which should be closer to light if implemented IMO)), however its just INSANE ammount of buffs with NO downsides.

Being a 900 pound 10 feet tall monster that can have magics, is as smart as everyone else, doesn't have any movement penalty, is able to wield armour and weapons perfectly fine, and gets additional boons just due to existing? Yea no thanks that is broken.

Again, this comes from someone that already plays an Olog, and I absolutely despise it- It takes everything that Ologs are now and than strips that away to instead make them better orcs. There is no reason for such a rewrite to be even happening, Ologs can be played poorly by some people, yes. However there is a certain charm to their simple mindness and dependance on others for mentally tasking things. Personally I had great fun going around as Brick, even if he is not able to do a lot he is doing his best which lead to some really nice interactions! Be it drawing out what he means while asking for paper to draw a letter to someone ((Yes, he got a piece of paper and still drew his plan to send a letter)) or hesitently joining in on playing music with a person by claping his hands together even if he was failing misserably

TLDR: **** Orc+. Leave my dum dum alone.

i have rp'd with maybe half a dozen ologs this map, and they exclusively may as well have been spongebob characters one step away from literally emoting shitting themselves.

i think the "you're busted overpowered but also genuinely mentally disabled" is a kind of character archetype that only appeals to people who want to make non-serious troll characters going "hurr durr" then punching a hole straight through someone's chest, which is not the sort of roleplay niche i think we should encourage in any form.

i'm sure there are decent olog players, i have not roleplayed with the horde community at large in many months and i am therefore limited in this experience, but i have yet to encounter them and see no reason to keep olog in it's current form.

all that being said, i actually like the vibe here. i see no issues with the magics they have access to considering virtually everything except housemagery, bardmancy, and some type of shamanism will remove all of their special olog abilities, and therefore have no balance consideration problems.

[Turbo_Dog 3567]

22 hours ago, Panashea said:

Me, IndignantShaman

IndignantShaman, and I*

[MrMojoMordor 2413]

Man, Uruk-player base is not allowed to have anything nice huh? 

Ologs are a rare sight in an already low-pop player base. Since my return to LotC 3 yrs ago & consistant play - i have met exactly 5 Ologs.
I don't think this rewrite is going to suddenly change that fact or make Ologs a super popular & overpowered CA.

Otherwise, i hold no opinions. I'm not an Olog player. Very cool.