Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[Space 2335]

Personally, if there is a God, he isn't exactly taking care of us. I think he gave up on us a long time ago, if he was ever up there watching us. Personally, I believe two things:

a) We are here just because we are.

B) There were beings billions of years before us situated in the solar system, and they set us up for evolution, just because I don't think evolution just randomly happened.

Then explain how those beings became advanced enough to force evolution on us, if evolution isn't 'natural'.

[hypercrit 237]

Just cuz?

I don't really know. I guess I know there must be something, but I don't know what. I know it's not the God that Christians believe in though, or he's changed since the Bible was written. He's not a very nice guy, if he's up there.

[Space 2335]

Just cuz?

I don't really know. I guess I know there must be something, but I don't know what. I know it's not the God that Christians believe in though, or he's changed since the Bible was written. He's not a very nice guy, if he's up there.

Just cuz means it's natural. So you believe in evolution of a alien race, that helped evolve humans because they couldn't cause it's impossible?

[Bawd 222]

I'm going to pose a challenge. I will not post again on this thread if my challenge can be overcome. Provide me with one solid piece of evidence for the existence of a deity that created the universe, referencing sources, quotes and all other things that are not your own. If this evidence is in fact solid, I will rest my case and stop questioning the existence of a deity.

[Bawd 222]

Oops, double post.

[Misery's Host 2]

I'm going to pose a challenge. I will not post again on this thread if my challenge can be overcome. Provide me with one solid piece of evidence for the existence of a deity that created the universe, referencing sources, quotes and all other things that are not your own. If this evidence is in fact solid, I will rest my case and stop questioning the existence of a deity.

^I would also like someone to present me with evidence of a deity, not analogies or moral philosphies, but solid evidence.

[Rhisereld 317]

Just cuz?

I don't really know. I guess I know there must be something, but I don't know what. I know it's not the God that Christians believe in though, or he's changed since the Bible was written. He's not a very nice guy, if he's up there.

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

The Christian God hasn't changed. He's always been an asshat.

[Dargene 51]

I believe that it was aliens, its deffo them, they wanted an experiment, we are all just like single cells in a test tube ALL HAIL OUR ALIEN OVERLORDS!!!!! THEY SHALL BRING US TO ASCENTION

Now in all seriosness

I have no problem with people who believe in god, but the fact that he can take attendence at church, Is everywhere ect i have a problem with, If there is a good, whats with all the suffering, Why does he ignore people praying, Is it because he simply does not care anymore, or maybe there was a god and he just died from old age, everything has a lifespan, from simple bugs to giant stars.

I do want to believe that it was evolution, Due to the fact there is more evidence in this favor, also due to the fact it could mean that there is alien life somewhere in the universe, i mean think about it, if god created us in his own image, JUST US, then that is a pretty lonely existence in the universe no ?

(Little funny thing)

Have you noticed even if people are not religios they go Oh god, or Jesus christ when bad things happen :3, Never heard anyone go Oh Big bang theory, or Oh Evolution.

[Shelby ! 21]

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

The Christian God hasn't changed. He's always been an asshat.

1st Timothy 2:12: For women, they had to obey and submit to their husbands. They did not genuinely have to submit to other men, and were allowed allowed to talk. He is mainly referring to the ranks in the Church. Women did have civil authority over some men, their children and possibly others. Women had to be in full submission to their husbands, but not in total submission to all men.

Good insight here. I won't lie, I had to research this. It's hard to explain to people who don't grow up in the Church x'D One thing you have to understand is that things were harsh back then, and genuinely women did not have as many rights as men. It wasn't just Christians/Jews, but I shouldn't have to point that out.

Genesis 2:22: He was testing Isaac's faith to Him. He never actually made him kill his son, he stopped him.

Ephesians 5:22: Above. -.-

1st Peter 2:18: Clicky. Too lazy to explain it. This goes into better depth than my tiny little mind can. xD

Judges 19:25-28: If you read before and after, instead of picking out this one verse, it explains a lot. Beforehand it explained how now having any laws and no King would lead to bad things- aka this verse. This is why the Jews demanded to have a King. If you actually read this book/chapter, you would understand that. :3

Just my little feeble defense. x.x

(Little funny thing)

Have you noticed even if people are not religios they go Oh god, or Jesus christ when bad things happen :3, Never heard anyone go Oh Big bang theory, or Oh Evolution.

I've noticed that too o3o

[Rhisereld 317]

1st Timothy 2:12: For women, they had to obey and submit to their husbands. They did not genuinely have to submit to other men, and were allowed allowed to talk. He is mainly referring to the ranks in the Church. Women did have civil authority over some men, their children and possibly others. Women had to be in full submission to their husbands, but not in total submission to all men.

Good insight here. I won't lie, I had to research this. It's hard to explain to people who don't grow up in the Church x'D One thing you have to understand is that things were harsh back then, and genuinely women did not have as many rights as men. It wasn't just Christians/Jews, but I shouldn't have to point that out.

The verse says a woman cannot have authority over a man. They must be silent. That is what it says word for word. Don't try to wriggle out of this by saying, "Oh, but it's only in X situation". In church, or out of church, this is a disgusting mentality that has no place in society.

And saying that it was a long time ago is no excuse for such an archaic and oppressive statement. If this is how things were ran in that time, then why didn't an elightened man of Christ such as this one speak out against the oppression of women?

I'll tell you why.

It's because religion isn't the word of a higher power that is inherantly "good". It doesn't stand for the rights of women, blacks, homosexuals and transgender people. It stands for old superstition and outdated oppression. Religion is a snapshot of all the bigotry, superstition and irrationality of that time period. As time goes on and people realise that subserviency isn't okay, religion may grudgingly change its mind. But, Jesus, it took God a bloody long time to figure that women aren't animals, huh?

Genesis 2:22: He was testing Isaac's faith to Him. He never actually made him kill his son, he stopped him.

Ephesians 5:22: Above. -.-

No. What was God testing him for? Psychopathy? If so, Isaac definitely passed. In what universe is a willingness to kill your own son a desirable trait? What moral does this teach? That if the voices in your head tell you to kill your own son, you should stab him to death to prove your "faith"? I find that a deplorable example of the filth that is religion.

I conclude this particular argument with an exerpt from one of my favourite songs.

1st Peter 2:18: Clicky. Too lazy to explain it. This goes into better depth than my tiny little mind can. xD

You can't weasel out of the existance of slavery but hiding behind a slight ambiguity of the word. It might mean 'slavery'. I might mean 'hippopotamuses'. But chances are it means 'slavery', and the fact remains that the modern version of the Bible condones slavery.

Judges 19:25-28: If you read before and after, instead of picking out this one verse, it explains a lot. Beforehand it explained how now having any laws and no King would lead to bad things- aka this verse. This is why the Jews demanded to have a King. If you actually read this book/chapter, you would understand that. :3

I actually know quite a bit about what happened before and after, as I have a nice picture book about it and a handy tool called Google. There was nothing said the Jews demanding a King in this chapter. This guy chose to send out his concubine to be abused and raped in order to protect the much-more-important man who was staying with him.

Afterwards, he put the corpse on his donkey and went home, before cutting the corpse into twelve pieces and sending it all throughout Israel. Then they declared religous war and killed pretty much every Benjimanite. Then they felt sorry about that because the tribe would die out, so you know what they did? They went somewhere else and killed and pillaged, and brought back some virgins to give to the Benjaminites. Which God supported.

"Go and strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword; also the women and the little ones. 11 This is what you shall do: severy male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall devote to destruction.” 12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead 400 young virgins who had not known a man by lying with him, and they brought them to the camp at tShiloh, which is in the land of Canaan."

"And they commanded the people of Benjamin, saying, “Go and lie in ambush in the vineyards 21 and watch. If the daughters of Shiloh come out to adance in the dances, then come out of the vineyards and ****** each man his wife from the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin."

Still think the context of this passage excuses its barbaric contents? All throughout this, God punished the entire Benjamin tribe indiscriminately because of that occurrence, but the man who sent the concubine out in the first place didn't even get a second glance. I'm not even going to touch on the fact that the tribes seemed more angry about the destruction of the man's "property" than the actual loss of the life of a woman.

I find this absolutely disgusting.

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

Religion is stupid and self-conflicting. India fought and slaughtered innocents in Sri Lanka. Yet, they are build upon Buddhist values. Israel shot Palistinian civillians, built upon Judaism and it's values. Both of those religions focus on love and peace. Yet look at these disgusting acts. The IPKF (Indian Peacekeeping Force) shot people on suspicion of being Sri Lankan rebels. You saw the news of the Gaza Strip. Disgustng acts in higly religious states, beng the homelands of said religion. And this religion would have justified these actions if it were the 1600's, but now we have political excuses for such, which is just as disgusting as the spotty religious excuses. So, this is why I am an atheist. Religion is self-destructive, and absolutly pointless.

[Space 2335]

Religion is stupid and self-conflicting. India fought and slaughtered innocents in Sri Lanka. Yet, they are build upon Buddhist values. Israel shot Palistinian civillians, built upon Judaism and it's values. Both of those religions focus on love and peace. Yet look at these disgusting acts. The IPKF (Indian Peacekeeping Force) shot people on suspicion of being Sri Lankan rebels. You saw the news of the Gaza Strip. Disgustng acts in higly religious states, beng the homelands of said religion. And this religion would have justified these actions if it were the 1600's, but now we have political excuses for such, which is just as disgusting as the spotty religious excuses. So, this is why I am an atheist. Religion is self-destructive, and absolutly pointless.

That's not a very good reason to be atheist.

Be a atheist because it's the only thing any regularly evolved human being would believe in.

[Wavejammers 328]

[Space 2335]

HEY, NUDITY

BUt yes, pastafarianism is funny.

Edit. Carl Sagan but it beautifully. 'If you ask the question how did the universe get here, you can answer 'God'. But naturally you ask 'How did God get here?' 'Well he's always been here.' and naturally you can assume that the universe has always been here then.

And well this is flawed in the sense that we know that the universe hasn't always been here, that is also it's saving grace. If the universe wasn't always here, then it would of been impossible for god to have always been here.

Hell, in what day does it say he invited gravity? Or electro magnetism? Or any of the other 4 forces?

[Wavejammers 328]

BUt yes, pastafarianism is funny.

Stop insulting my Religion