Breaking the Ice

[Zezimus 1523]

((Just throwimg this out there.A naval batle or amphibius assault would be lots of fun))

((Indeed, we thought we'd try something new for a change. A lot of us have been working almost non stop to make sure we had the lore for the armour was correct so I do have to wonder why it is being called sloppy now, after we were told the war claim had already been accepted.))

[Cloakedsphere 1471]

( Yeah? Why would this be over ruled? They go into lots of detail in creating the armor. Over ruling it really does not make much sense since its taking a VERY small portion of land in hanseti. )

[mylimo7 409]

(have you even tested it

[MajesticOwyn 334]

Below is a conversation I had with Seventh on the issue and I feel like the arguments that were put up were not at all valid and I would like to request that the original GM, Seventh, and perhaps a third GM or administrator like Native oversee this as both sides are claiming the other to be biased.

We worked hard on this lore and tried to make sure we followed everything both in-game and on the forums. If anyone has any questions or arguements, please, I would be happy to clarify anything.

The actual conversation: (Warning, pretty long)

<19:11:17> "MajesticOwyn": Hey Seventh, saw that you denied the Warclaim and I thought I would ask for some clarification on it. I was a pretty big part of the lore building up to it and I would like to know what is too sloppy about it. We already had a GM come in and deal a verdict on how the suits were aquired and the lore itself, they passed it.

<19:11:26> "Seventh": Talking to Zezimus.

<19:11:31>  Chat partner has closed the conversation

<19:13:32> "MajesticOwyn": Zezimus said that you want to speak?

<19:13:48> "Seventh": Zezimus wants to talk to you, not me.

<19:13:55> "Seventh": I want to talk to Zezimus.

<19:14:01> "MajesticOwyn": He asked me to talk to you about the lore, I'm in private chat with him

<19:14:11> "Seventh": Talk to him, he'll talk to me.

<19:14:13> "MajesticOwyn": Perhaps all three of us can talk in a channel?

<19:14:30> "Seventh": Nope.

<19:14:56> "MajesticOwyn": Alrighty

<19:15:58> "Seventh": <22:14:53> "Zezimus": Just without the magical properties which we were told by Teutons themselves were unnceccessary.

<19:15:59> "Seventh": Names.

<19:16:43> "MajesticOwyn": Segari, Abeam, Ventraux, Niedster and Sargeblub all said that the runes only dealt with the weight of the suit

<19:17:00> "MajesticOwyn": They are all ex-order members around for the suits themselves

<19:17:02> "MajesticOwyn": and all wore them

<19:17:09> "Seventh": Yeah... that's all the runes do.

<19:17:12> "Seventh": Weight.

<19:17:17> "Seventh": However, I see this pointless.

<19:17:35> "MajesticOwyn": So we built a single layer steel suit that is airtight with the filter mask that protects from the gas

<19:17:38> "Seventh": Because, Zezimus couldn't tell me, properly, I doubt you will either.

<19:18:05> "Seventh": Okay; you can use the suit, to test it.

<19:18:07> "Seventh": However.

<19:18:12> "Seventh": I can't say why it wont work.

<19:18:21> "Seventh": But, when you try, I'm telling you now, it won't.

<19:18:31> "Seventh": Am very limited to say why it won't work.

<19:18:39> "Seventh": Because, frankly, I'm not trusting people with any of this lore.

<19:18:41> "Seventh": Evar.

<19:18:42> "Seventh": EVAR.

<19:20:57> "Seventh": Thing is.

<19:20:59> "Seventh": It's like.

<19:21:08> "MajesticOwyn": If that is the only thing the magical properties of the suit handle, how would it fail to work if it is designed off of the suit itself? The Dwarves are master smiths and were able to reverse engineer the technology. They had two masks that were made by Mirtok himself, one was the early TAC mask and the other the one from the Sariant suit.

If we test the suit and it fails, what do we have to go off of? That's pretty much all the lore that is written about the suits, theres nothing else that states we have to do more to it.

<19:21:15> "Seventh": You can't invent something because you heard about it.

<19:21:39> "Seventh": Yeah, that's why it's fool proof.

<19:21:40> "MajesticOwyn": We didn't, we had two pieces of the real technology in pristine conditions

<19:21:46> "Seventh": Two pieces?

<19:21:50> "Seventh": Where and how, and when?

<19:21:52> "Seventh": Names, as well.

<19:21:54> "MajesticOwyn": The early gas mask and the full sariant suit

<19:22:00> "Seventh": <22:21:43> "Seventh": Two pieces?

<22:21:47> "Seventh": Where and how, and when?

<22:21:50> "Seventh": Names, as well.

<19:22:40> "MajesticOwyn": Niedster and Ventraux, we aquired Niedster's when he joined us and we kept it around until I learned in RP that Zezimus may need it

<19:22:45> "MajesticOwyn": We still have Ventraux

<19:22:52> "MajesticOwyn": the other three suits were reclaimed by Mirtok, that i don't argue

<19:23:14> "MajesticOwyn": As I said before, a GM already dealed with us getting these suits and the lore itself and they have approved it

<19:23:22> "MajesticOwyn": I believe it was Urasept? I'm not sure, Sparrow sent it to someone

<19:23:26> "Seventh": Urasept has no idea

<19:23:29> "Seventh": About any of the lore

<19:23:30> "Seventh": From mirtok

<19:23:35> "MajesticOwyn": It's written out there

<19:23:37> "Seventh": And, personally, ahs a disliek for him.

<19:23:40> "Seventh": Nope.

<19:23:42> "Seventh": Already checked

<19:23:43> "Seventh": Twice.

<19:23:54> "MajesticOwyn": The cloud and the suits are written in the public, no?

<19:23:58> "Seventh": Nup.

<19:24:00> "MajesticOwyn": I remember reading the thread

<19:24:01> "MajesticOwyn": Let me find it

<19:24:12> "Seventh": Zezimus

<19:24:14> "Seventh": Showed me.

<19:24:21> "Seventh": Lolnope.

<19:24:56> "MajesticOwyn": He showed you what?

<19:25:22> "Seventh": Underneath Hanseti

<19:27:49> "MajesticOwyn": So you are telling me there is no lore for these suits of his?

<19:28:03> "Seventh": There is, but he was specificalyl told not to post it.

<19:28:12> "Seventh": I know your smart enough to know why

<19:28:29> "MajesticOwyn": Aye, but if someone were to meta that information you could just shut them down easy, like you are doing now

<19:28:34> "MajesticOwyn": The only difference here is

<19:28:38> "MajesticOwyn": We didn't meta, we did it all ingame

<19:28:41> "Seventh": I can do it, either way.

<19:28:43> "Seventh": I know.

<19:28:44> "Seventh": Hold on.

<19:28:58> "Seventh": <22:21:12> "Seventh": You can't invent something because you heard about it.

<19:29:07> "Seventh": Even if you had 2 pieces.

<19:29:18> "Seventh": Now, I'm telling you now.

<19:29:21> "Seventh": You can sue the suits.

<19:29:22> "MajesticOwyn": We didn't invent it because we heard about it, we reverse engineered it from actualy working technology

<19:29:23> "Seventh": But they will fail.

<19:29:41> "Seventh": Yup, however, you've gotten a lot of things wrong, and if I could say them, I would.

<19:29:51> "MajesticOwyn": What you are implying is we would have started making this suits by merely seeing them on a Sariant, or hearing about it.. No, we worked with actual tech

<19:29:53> "Seventh": If I could, I would, however I can't, therefore I shant.

<19:30:31> "MajesticOwyn": I think when we've put in the last two weeks on this lore that we deserve to know why it doesnt work, even if you just tell me and Zezimus

<19:30:57> "Seventh": Can't.

<19:30:59> "MajesticOwyn": This whole cloud business is complete power-gaming, he gets to sit behind a cloud of gas that kills everyone but him, it essentially makes him untouchable and invincible

<19:31:10> "Seventh": Point is, your MODIFICATION won't work.

<19:31:31> "Seventh": Well; tis how it is. Nobody cried when Dragons flew out of Karik.

<19:31:37> "Seventh": I was annoyed.

<19:31:39> "Seventh": But, meh.

<19:31:44> "MajesticOwyn": That wasn't controlled by a single player

<19:31:50> "MajesticOwyn": The cloud is power-gaming, you cant deny that

<19:31:51> "Seventh": Niether was this.

<19:31:54> "Seventh": There was talk 'bout it.

<19:31:59> "Seventh": For de longest time.

<19:32:00> "MajesticOwyn": Yes it was, Mirtok created the cloud

<19:32:02> "Seventh": I even talked about it.

<19:32:04> "Seventh": To Sam.

<19:32:17> "MajesticOwyn": I know, you wanted to destroy the nation, I heard

<19:32:29> "MajesticOwyn": but covering it in a cloud that a small group of people can live in and be invincible isn't the way to do it

<19:32:42> "MajesticOwyn": I also know of the Spire, if you're trying to keep anything secret

<19:32:44> "Seventh": Not my fault.

<19:32:48> "Seventh": Hey, hey ,hey, they addapted.

<19:33:00> "MajesticOwyn": And we're using their tech to adapt to it as well

<19:33:06> "MajesticOwyn": Mind you, it's not some fake set... It is the real thing

<19:33:10> "MajesticOwyn": made by Mirtok himself

<19:33:50> "Seventh": I know.

<19:33:53> "Seventh": But, won't work.

<19:33:59> "Seventh": When did you fail in your lore?

<19:34:06> "Seventh": 2 week lore < 3 Month lore.

<19:34:10> "Seventh": OH BTW

<19:34:17> "Seventh": This just in; Mirtok was actually trapped behind

<19:34:17> "MajesticOwyn": They had to design it from scratch, that is why

<19:34:20> "Seventh": the cloud.

<19:34:23> "Seventh": And?

<19:34:26> "Seventh": <22:21:12> "Seventh": You can't invent something because you heard about it.

<19:34:34> "Seventh": Womp.

<19:34:39> "Seventh": I see little point to this, mate.

<19:34:41> "Seventh": You can use the suit

<19:34:42> "MajesticOwyn": Look how long it took them to develop the atomic bomb, then the US stole the scientists and made the progress in half the time

<19:34:44> "Seventh": HOWEVER

<19:34:45> "MajesticOwyn": Thats what this is

<19:34:48> "Seventh": T'will fail.

<19:34:53> "Seventh": Unless, you can correct it.

<19:35:01> "Seventh": <22:33:57> "Seventh": When did you fail in your lore?

<19:35:08> "Seventh": When were the dwarves unseccesful in making these suits?

<19:35:14> "Seventh": Hmph.

<19:35:16> "Seventh": Hmph.

<19:35:28> "Seventh": Womp.

<19:35:31> "Seventh": I'm sorry, mate.

<19:35:31> "MajesticOwyn": I'd like you to show this suit lore to urasept

<19:35:34> "MajesticOwyn": He made the decision first

<19:35:37> "MajesticOwyn": He is a GM also

<19:35:37> "Seventh": Urasept.

<19:35:45> "Seventh": Has something against Mirtok.

<19:35:56> "MajesticOwyn": How do you know that? That's purely just speculation

<19:35:58> "Seventh": If I knew what it was, I'd have talked to him, already.

<19:36:06> "Seventh": I don't, that's why it makes sense.

<19:36:13> "Seventh": Why would I show it to him, if I assumed?

<19:36:14> "MajesticOwyn": Mirtok has said plenty of things when my VA was up for revoke to try and get out of this, things that weren't true

<19:36:14> "Seventh": Lol.

<19:36:31> "Seventh": Mate; you can use the suits, however, t'will fail.

<19:36:40> "MajesticOwyn": I would request you still bring it to Urasept

<19:36:51> "MajesticOwyn": I don't know what your relation is to Mirtok but maybe I feel that you are biased towards him

<19:36:56> "MajesticOwyn": Bring in more GMs

<19:37:04> "MajesticOwyn": But show it to him, he made the decision first, its only fair that he look at it

<19:37:13> "Seventh": Will do.

<19:37:19> "MajesticOwyn": Thank you.

Edit: I would like to add that the lore actually IS in the Underneath Hanseti post.

[shields12347 133]

Below is a conversation I had with Seventh on the issue and I feel like the arguments that were put up were not at all valid and I would like to request that the original GM, Seventh, and perhaps a third GM or administrator like Native oversee this as both sides are claiming the other to be biased.

AH There you are LoTC! Just the way I left you!

[Samson Option 9652]

Shields, need I scorn you like a little child as well. Both parties [pardon the french] shut the f-ck up. Allow Uthor, Ital, and I to discuss this whether in this topic or in PMs.

[shields12347 133]

Scorn if need be my old friend :)

[Samson Option 9652]

Scorn if need be my old friend :)

Very well, it does not help when people make unnecessary and undecipherable comments that pertains nothing to this War-Claim. As much as I am not fond of Seventh's 'maneuver', I am looking past it and if you all want a fair judgement, I require that people do not devolve into monkeys and [pardon my french again] throw sh-t at each other. Let Ital, Uthor, and I deal with this. We are not being biased and Seventh's 'reversal' does not reflect on our ability to sift through this. We however will refuse if we have more ignorant comments. From Both Sides of the 'Table of this War-Claim' so to speak.

[shields12347 133]

Very well, it does not help when people make unnecessary and undecipherable comments that pertains nothing to this War-Claim. As much as I am not fond of Seventh's 'maneuver', I am looking past it and if you all want a fair judgement, I require that people do not devolve into monkeys and [pardon my french again] throw sh-t at each other. Let Ital, Uthor, and I deal with this. We are not being biased and Seventh's 'reversal' does not reflect on our ability to sift through this. We however will refuse if we have more ignorant comments. From Both Sides of the 'Table of this War-Claim' so to speak.

Ah thank you :) You have always had a way with words

[MajesticOwyn 334]

Very well, it does not help when people make unnecessary and undecipherable comments that pertains nothing to this War-Claim. As much as I am not fond of Seventh's 'maneuver', I am looking past it and if you all want a fair judgement, I require that people do not devolve into monkeys and [pardon my french again] throw sh-t at each other. Let Ital, Uthor, and I deal with this. We are not being biased and Seventh's 'reversal' does not reflect on our ability to sift through this. We however will refuse if we have more ignorant comments. From Both Sides of the 'Table of this War-Claim' so to speak.

I posted the conversation as I thought it was in his power to overrule what the war claim team had decided. It was not my intention to throw anything back and forth, only to show the reasons Seventh gave me for why he denied it in the first place and make it clear that his arguments didn't make sense. I wanted to get some people that had the power to resolve this maturely, that is all.

That being said, if it is up to you three then I will await your response and urge everyone else to refrain from posting anything else that is useless to the war claim.

[mylimo7 409]

Mogroka should give the final verdict in all of this, he is Lore-Master, Admin, and Leader of the War Claim Team and I believe it would be best to listen to his wise verdict.

And once again I ask this, HAS THIS BEEN TESTED, and has Seventh has said in the Chat with the Lore-Maker-Person/Dwarf, it is powergaming for it to magically work with no problems at all.

[Sargeblub 78]

Don't get me wrong, I think Mogroka is awesome. But if only people from Oren get to decide the verdict then there's a chance bias could be involved.

[Skippy 2466]

Don't get me wrong, I think Mogroka is awesome. But if only people from Oren get to decide the verdict then there's a chance bias could be involved.

Yup!

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

Mogroka should give the final verdict in all of this, he is Lore-Master, Admin, and Leader of the War Claim Team and I believe it would be best to listen to his wise verdict.

And once again I ask this, HAS THIS BEEN TESTED, and has Seventh has said in the Chat with the Lore-Maker-Person/Dwarf, it is powergaming for it to magically work with no problems at all.

[[ Do you think we would risk our lives if it hadn't been tested? God, have you read any of the lore at all? ]]

[Samson Option 9652]

[Let us try to leave Mogroka out of this, half the server seem to want to crucify him. Anyways, I have not made a SINGLE verdict pertaining to this, I will be reading up and try to give a bit of time to deciding where I sit on this war-claim. The other War-Claim members are free to chime in questions and such, I am in no way trying to dictate to them, but I don't like that there seems to be a bit of an awkward silence before flaming ;)]