__WaterFox__

Bad example. Why would you heal a fatal wound? It's called fatal for a reason. A better example would be third degree burns, which are exceptionally difficult to treat even in modern times due to trying to keep the patient stable in such a precarious state. Magic means that could be healed with significantly less risk of the patient dying from what would surely be a fatal injury on LoTC. We could also go with dangerously gangrenous wounds, magic could clear that up whereas natural means could only affect it if the reagents were enhanced by a druid. How is this a problem with lore? You do know what power gaming is right? It is an offense that can be reported. Seems like this is no more easily regulated than people magically getting swords or armor without receiving it irp. Again? How is this a problem with how healing magic functions. This is just bad roleplay. Powergaming even. Given the amount of wood elven players who outright refuse to be healed by magic? Given how Xionist think the aenguls are just slavers? This idea seems like it would actually encourage more dynamic routes in roleplay. People are trigger happy to dismember because it is so hard to heal, not because it is so easy to heal. Most guards use this for serious offenders since it does require a lot of work to replace or heal. That is kinda the point. All the consequences fall on the caster, not the patient. Alchemy? Exact opposite! So you have two differnt medical styles ? I'm not actually sure how you were trying to refute this point. As for evocation just being a combat magic? Only for uncreative minds. A fire evocationist could use it to very precisely temper a blade, cook a meal, or just make pretty sparks that amuse children. I think that right there also proves that flames don't just bugger off to the void, but can have an impact on the material world. 1.) No magic can regenerate limbs, only alchemy can 2.) People who want to do twisted **** irp are going to do twisted **** irp regardless of how healing works. We will just get a bunch of amputees and mutilated people. 3.) People who ignore consequences will ignore ultra-harsh consequences. They don't care. 4.) Who cares about getting rid of ulta-harsh consequences?... It may end up being **** rp, but it is still rp. Magic healing is just a way for people to deal with that rp after the fact. You are misconstruing the argument here, outright changing words to fit your narrative. The point Astartes was trying to make is that some people do play villainous character who will disfigure your char in horrible ways that dramatically affect your rp and some people do not enjoy having their rp mangled for the sake of someone else. As for your example, no not gruesome at all, but having all your fingers cut off and sewn in different places is. When someone has it out for you, it can often be a case of either don't log in or get fucked. Not everything is the victim's fault. As someone who rp's with clerics and various holy orders? I see this on a regular basis. With clerics, if they aren't revived in time by another cleric, it is a pk. I promise you, you're not thinking this through! There are consequences and then there is **** that just fucks up your roleplay. For the sake of argument, please assume we mean the **** that just totally fucks up someone's ability to roleplay. Last time I address this! There are consequences, consequences that mean your character may not be able to fight or dance or hear music. Then there are the consequences that leaves your character a babbling mess, a blind,mute, and deaf mess with no hands, or leaves them so psychologically fucked (along with yourself) that you just don't want to rp the character. Read deeper then. If magic works like that, where you take the injury onto yourself and have no special regeneration powers, then there is no reason to use the magic in the first place. You might as well use alchemy. Remember that this is not a discussion to remove magic btw, but to improve it. You do understand that healing magic is meant to be deus ex machina? If you can't fix that **** with alchemy then you're going to need a miracle. Now before you bring up that point again, healing magic is not necromancy and is a magic (which means it takes time to cast) so injuries that would you kill you in seconds or minutes are just going to kill you.

I did read and most of your points were about how the patient could perform poor roleplay by logging out or ignoring any consequences. I saw nothing about how the magic ITSELF could be abused, is in someway overpowered, or gaps in lore that would allow for something stupid or absurd like attaching limbs to someone of a different race of said limb. It is one thing if you criticize lore, it is another if you talk about how people abuse lore in such a way that they can be reported for power gaming.

@ChonGojDragonski, I'm not going to quote all your responses, but it looks like over half of them had to deal with poor rp'ers doing poor rp rather than an inherent flaw in the magic.

I have a paladin and a cleric and both use alchemy with their magic, why? Because I understand that most wounds would kill a person if not dealt with immediately and that some things are not worth wasting the mana on. I'll give passes to people who make most of the healing emote to describing the way the magic looks or is behaving in those situations since I know not everyone has any medical knowledge to speak of, but if it has neither of these elements than it is just a bad rp'er. As for only healing impure wounds? Name more than three wounds that actually leave behind dark magic to be combated against, curses don't count.

Ascended did that and in all honesty? Why bother even using that magic if you don't have the ascended's regen properties.

I disagree with this, but I do think more information needs to be handed out since mundane methods are necessary in some situations. I've seen quite a few people get so excited about their spell that they don't actually try to stabilize the patient before beginning, which is a culture I think we need to introduce rather than make as a rule.

I disagree with most everything you wrote in your post. Honestly, I thought that combat healing was addressed, but it seems people just cannot help themselves so perhaps removing the entire idea of healing in active combat can be a thing. As you can see I support the idea of some form of 'counter healing' like you suggested, but I do not think it should be harmful. In my mind healing magic should be a grand act that accomplishes what mundane healing could not fix such as missing limbs, third degree burns, or even blindness along with taint inflicted wounds. No nerf's please, just make it function differently than the way that allows for heal bots to occur.

Now, as someone who has been doing medical rp since I've been on the server, and while I do whine about how people just throw magic at a wound I disagree with nerfing healing magic again. I think magic should be used when natural means can no longer be helpful, BUT I do think things need to change to make the rp more interesting. The magic could be altered so that magical regeneration of a wound still causes exhaustion to the patient, the magic acts more like a patch that can be removed or dissolved when it comes into contact with other magics in a short period of time, or even the regenerated area takes a completely unnatural appearance. Those are just my ideas, I might flesh them out a little more later. Edit: It was suggested in the cleric chat that healing could be done in sessions, but the cap for ability to heal is removed. Ex. Someone loses an arm, the arm can be regrown, but only sections at a time that would drain a tier 5. As for keeping people from having multiple clerics regrow their arm at one time? Could continue on with that patch idea and say that once a cleric has started healing that spot, another's magic will end up reversing what was healed.

Clerics have healing, purging, and enchanting. They are also locked to that magic whereas dark mages can dabble in many things.

A very simple notice was hung up in various cities and the Cloud Temple " I am looking for the instrument known as a guitar, six or nine string variety, but due to my lack of a messenger animal it would simply be best to contact me with a time and date to meet. On that note I am also looking for a messenger animal! - Zatanaes Iheiuh'onn"

I like this unique take to a more 'powerful' form since it does not actually seem to give you more power in the sense of making the paragon's words basically become law no matter how stupid it is or in the sense that this does not bolster the potency of spells cast. I do think that as an added measure, and despite the need for a CA, this should be taught more as an advanced technique taught to teachers who have proven they can maturely handle such a thing so they are not viewed as someone who has set apart or above the rest.

" I currently have a number of items cluttering up my ship's hold. These items include things such as a troll skull, a candle that I am pretty sure has green infused with it, and a sea shell that appears to have been enchanted. Send me a letter so we can set figure out a date where I can show you the rest of the items I have. - Neci Vincrute"

" I am willing to offer a certain amount of minas for items found at the recently discovered Elven ruins. I have deep pockets, so do not be afraid to send me a letter or meet me at the Warhawke camp - Neci Vincrute"

Allright! I'm going to explain why this new magic would absolutely not being taking away from orcish culture. 1.) The dark elven form of worship and perspective is more akin to Shintoism while the Orcish sort is highly variant between the clans and who the current Rex is. 2.) Dark elves are locked to Luara and Kruul, while Orcs still have the free range of use of all spirits. This point might actually explain 1. 3.) It in no way hinders orcs from doing what they want. The only way this lore could infringe on people's rp is if this lore is denied. As for the current difficulties that are currently being faced with the orcish playerbase, the dark elven playerbase went through the same. We went through the trouble of creating cultural lore, historical lore, and even an entirely new sub-sect of magic to get our **** together. We still don't even know if all our effort will even be worth it, so don't shut us down because you guys haven't been able to pull off the same.

I love this lore and given everything we have come up with in group chats to flesh out the dark elves, it fits perfectly. I don't see why people are making such a fuss when racial magics are honestly a stupid idea, so thank goodness no such thing exists on LoTC. 1+

I fully support

I would think it would be like if someone 75% elven and 25% human, they would live a bit longer and be infertile, but if it were 75% human and 25% elven then the curse and blessing of a human would be more prevalent. As for 50/50 I'd say that both curse and blessing would be in full effect. Just my two cents after further consideration.

"I could offer you a nice steel blade. Do you want a one handed or two handed blade? I'm guessing from the desire to have an emerald in the pommel you want a traditional cross guard, but please correct me if I'm wrong. As for price, 250 sounds excellent. You can meet me in Ker'nor if you would like to speak more in depth about this - Neci Vincrute"

"I'll add fifty minas to either of your bids" she said to Alifer and the other guy

The irritated dark elf punched Faile's shoulder,"Would you hush up?"

"250" An irritated dark elf bids

I'm glad this aengul wasn't scrapped! Also serves as a nice way to introduce something of a bhuddist religion to LoTC

Flesh Sculpting Clay Description and effects: This highly traumatizing mixture was made an alternative to a regeneration potion in the event that there is not enough flesh left for a wound to heal over (severe burns, lashings, or any other case where flesh is simply not there). It works by using a toxic reagent such as saffvil to break apart tissue, frost vine to prevent that tissue from decaying beyond it’s use, tippen’s root to reduce the traumatic nature of both those reagents, elf’s hair vine to allow the ‘floating’ tissue to travel, and mandragora to encourage the tissue to reattach at it’s new position. It should be noted that reformed flesh always bear the imprints of how it was moved and always looks like scar tissue, so using this clay to change one’s identity would result in everyone knowing that they tried to do so. Another thing to remember is that this mixture is highly traumatizing, so the use of gloves on the operator's part is necessary if they do not want their flesh to meld with the patient’s and the patient will probably need to be sedated depending on how widespread the wound is to prevent shock from killing them. Recipe: Base: Slime or any thick base capable of retaining a shape after being spread 2 symbols of water-(Regrowth, Ice, Life) 2 symbols of earth-(Resilience, Death) 1 symbol of air- (Travel) Author: WanderingFriend LM Approval Required: No

Could be cool so long as this isn't forced to be the server antag. I can see how it can be the server antag, but I do not want anything to simply be the antag.

Addressing some apparent lore issues: I think Kor is more like a gate keeper, he just keeps the dishonorable out Due to Apohet creating the realm for the honorable and how the lore suggests honorable souls are siphoned there first, I would imagine it would not matter if your character even knew of the spirits so long as they were honorable