[Lore] Official Creator Cleric

[JCQuiinn 168]

I don't have any of chaq's lore, the lore team doesn't, you don't, it doesn't seem anyone does. How then can we know if it is accepted at all?

Ptah, the only Chaq lore that I know ever existed was his magic application.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

Ahh... sorry   Well carry on then and pretend I was never here XD

PM me on Skype (JadeKadoa) and I can tell you what I told Wardog.

We /want/ creator magic as this. Little to no void, and drawing from ourselves as well to help give us the power to heal.

Creator Paladins could be this. Minor healing and connection to void. This solves the whole issue of people running around as T5 healers and T5 pyromancers

[PtahWithin 1318]

Ptah, the only Chaq lore that I know ever existed was his magic application.

Then you see our problem.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

A gm is highly requesting to talk in Teamspeak. To help explain this better.

as for me, I prefer voice explination, can make a better statement T_T

[MamaBearJade 2088]

- Creator Clerics physically decline the more they use the magic. It is a slow process but it is much like Arcane. You will decline physically in health. For how much you heal takes how many years off your life. Each race loses about 1% of their max life span for each Stage 4 or up healing. This means major healing of muscle, any bone healing, and all regeneration of limbs.

We can say we are drawing it from our own life force to explain it. We are still able to connect to the void in minute amounts. This would explain why we have THIS as a drawback

[E__V__O 1984]

Also I do not think it was stated, though could you make it that healing limbs would be a very tiring task and maybe not able to use healing again for 1 IRL day, or such, maybe 1 IRL hour for less extreme measures.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

That being said, regenerating an arm, for example, would be exceedingly debilitating. If one forced themselves to heal such grievous wounds, one might suffer internal bleeding, long-term weakness, or comatose for IRL days or weeks.

This is from the actual guide. I expect clerics to actually roleplay this properly

[Katherine1 362]

If they can connect to the void, then it can't be a deity-based magic. The only exception to this is Ascended magic, where Aeriel being the Archaengul is powerful enough to transfer power to her followers in such a way that it does not interfere with connecting to the void.

Could you quote the lore that says this? For a long time the druids had a thing where you automatically lost your attunement if you practiced void magic. We were told by the lore admin that we couldn't do it this way anymore because the current aengudaemon lore says that they cannot revoke their gifts once given, which means that once you have deity magic, you very much can go and learn void magic while you're at it. The followers of that deity will probably hunt you down and strip you of your deity-based powers, but you can technically do it.

And on the actual topic, I really don't see the point of this lore. At it's core, Creator Clerics seem like copycat magic to get around the restrictions of the original cleric magic. I generally am against copycat magic. This doesn't seem to do much to differentiate themselves from other sorts of clerics, and it's trying to guild lock itself? So why do we need two clerical orders? If you want a cleric guild, one exists. You're harming yourself and the original cleric order by doing this in nearly the same way that the druids are hurt every time they split into multiple groups.

[CosmicWhaleShark 2486]

Founder didn't write a thing as well, if it's not written down in a guide or something it is not followed.

 

 

It was never written down, it isn't followed.

 

 

Word does not mean it's written down for the other players that roleplay it to learn it right. This means his word is not followed. Again, they followed the priest guide, and as such, that is the powers they hold.

 

 

 

 

Hosper in this guide seems to have avoided this problem by clearly stating that the source of the magic is not known and indefinite.

 

 

Ptah, the only Chaq lore that I know ever existed was his magic application.

 

 

Then you see our problem.

 

Belated, but relevant all the same. I've noticed a pattern, which raises a question. "If it's not written down in a guide or something, it is not followed." Interesting. The only guide in the way of Creator clerics is this very thread, and it's essentially plagiarized from the original clerical order healings as well. Nothing was ever written down for this subtype. A footnote was added into the lore originally made for the clerical order, as an accomodation to the new founded Creator clerics.

 

"Word does not mean it's written down for the other players that roleplay it to learn it right." -Jistuma

 

In that case, I would also ask why it could be learned in the first place. If they cannot learn it correctly, how do they learn it at all, considering nothing was ever written down to reference.

 

In reference to Ptah's quote about Hosper, as previously stated, there was never any written explanation for just how creator clerics went about their methods. That was a courtesy, an accomodation, to the apparently accepted lore. (What lore? Exactly.)

 

Ptah, the only Chaq lore that I know ever existed was his magic application.

 

 

Then you see our problem.

 

In that case, I come with a supposed answer. Creator clerics never rightfully existed, therefore, shouldn't be role-played. Unless you have something to contradict my conclusions, I think with consideration into the given statements in this topic and consideration of lack of support in the ways of Creator clerics, then they simply should not exist.

 

No need for it to be sudden drop, we can always role-play out this loss of power. There have been several solutions given. Whether the clerical order patron seeks out this imposter, or whether the creator cleric powers are somehow significant to Anthos (considering they only really became abundant recently in Anthos), there are multiple ways to go about their removal.

 

Chaqery made a magic application for magic that was never actually made.

 

It's been illegal from the start.

[Bircalin 331]

Jade, three double posts in one topic, ease it up, please.

Thank you!

[ski_king3 0]

Just saw this, and this contradicts a lot of the creator cleric "lore." I'm not sure if this is meant to branch off from the Toov-esque healers and be a separate entity, or if it is meant to fundamentally change the way in which a magic roleplayed by a great many players works, but regardless I'm not a big fan. It just creates another guild-locked magic which isn't needed, and more of a mess in a field of magic that is already more ambiguous than many like.

 

Also, basically all of these changes that contradict the creator cleric "lore" can just be RP'ed without this lore, given the glorious freedom of magic that we have now. The not killing, the losing lifespan, the changes in magic you can learn, all of that can just be enforced in your own RP without imposing it on others, and done without "locking" the magic up. Seems like a much better way to handle this, if you ask me.

 

EDIT: Also, well before the MAT got dissolved, we had discussed in-depth what the place of Creator Clerics (or holy magic users, I really prefer that term) could do. I won't say we all had a firm understanding, but I believe myself, Hosper, Cruz, Supremacy, Lanader and perhaps some others (Geo should have as MAT Head, but I suspect he isn't as knowledgeable) knew it pretty well. I don't think we ever codified a specific lore doc, but the priest healing and/or clerical magic guide that hosper or I (think it was hosper) posted many months ago outlines everything as far as I'm aware. If there are any issues or ambiguities, I can definitely explain the magic via PM's.

 

I would have written down a document of sorts perhaps elaborating the "lore" even more explicitly before the MAT got dissolved, but it was firmly understood among the staff that decided to make remove of the MAT (or so four or five GM's told me, since I wasn't a part of the actual discussion), as well as those of us who wrote the removal of MAT post (Cruz and I) that the moderation of magic would be almost nothing beyond "don't powergame," so I felt no need.

 

EDIT PART TWO: Also, I realize I'm annoyingly adamant about this whole magic business, both about the Toov-esque holy magic (which a lot of you misrepresent), and about the way magic has been handled since the removal of the MAT, and I'm sorry that I likely drive some of you folk (looking at you LM's) up the walls with my insistence on these things when I'm not even actively playing on the server anymore. However, I think it's more or less justified.

 

In regards to the holy magic thing, there's a character that I've probably put 250 hours or more into developing, with a huge portion of it being the development of said character's magic. It's not terribly unlikely that I'll eventually return, at least for a brief while, and want to play this character, and I really don't want the time and development put into this character to be ripped apart by retconned magic lore. Perhaps if the issue was that the magic was powergamed in a manner that is actually problematic (not just morally reprehensible people healing others, but powergaming that can actually negatively affect others) I'd be down with it, but the only reasons I ever see is that there's no recorded lore for it (which isn't exactly accurate), that it differs from the original cleric lore, or that people don't like how toov wore armour and cast magic and therefore his magic is incredibly problematic. None of those are good reasons to try to retcon a magic, especially when the magic system established by the staff is that there are virtually no restrictions on magic other than magic=bow=sword, magic is also PVP default and that magic shouldn't be powergamed.

 

Likewise, I vehemently oppose all of these magic restrictions because they are the result of stupid bureaucratic bullshit that shouldn't be in existence on a Minecraft server. A very large portion of the playerbase request removal of the MAT and magic system for months. The GM's and Admins vote to remove the MAT and magic system. The MAT Heads are told to outline how the removal of the MAT and magic system will work. Cruz and I write up said post, making an explicit point to have nothing but bare-bones restrictions so magic lore is fluid and allows for creativity, rather than restrictive and explicit. Cruz sends it up to the MAT Heads and Rittsy (maybe other admins, not sure). Discussion is had, edits are made, but virtually none regarding the important parts of the changes or the intention of the document. All the MAT Heads and Rittsy approve it, and it's posted in MAT chat. We make a few last-minute decisions as the MAT, and the post is posted. Magic is more or less restrictionless for about a day before magic falls into the Lore Team's lap, who undo a very significant portion of the changes that were intended with the removal of the magic system. A few of us former MAT protest, but our attempts to explain that the Lore Team is misrepresenting the changes made are ignored. Arguably months of effort, a long, drawn-out process that's admittedly pretty personal to me given the effort I put into making it happen, and much of it is undone because of silly Minecraft Server bureaucracy regarding who "took over" magic. I'm sure many of you won't agree, and I'm sure I sound whiny as **** right now, but at least I hope this helps you understand why the way magic has been handled peeves me to no end (aside from the fact that it's just an inferior system).

 

TL;DR: I'm irrationally mad over a video game I hardly play anymore because of a tremendous amount of past effort. Time to take another break LotC.

[CosmicWhaleShark 2486]

Before I got in touch with you, you were cutting yourself mid-casual conversation with a golden crucifix. Clerical magics are not founded upon actual religion, and a crucifix is a torture device. Without Christian symbolism, your cleric was carrying around a golden torture device upon their staff for... Royal mice or something, I dunno.
 
This is a direct quote from myself to you, Ski_King.
 
[10/2/13 12:30:13 AM] wardog4445: Within the scale of good vs evil, clerics definitely lean towards the side of 'good', the light, and thusly there are a set of established laws, guidelines and rules that aid in RP and prevents any clerics from acting 'clever' in using their own magic to justify their obviously wrong actions.
[10/2/13 12:30:43 AM] wardog4445: It's quite simple really.
 
Here is a quote from your fellow pupil, a person taught directly by Toov. The initial line is in reference to Toov.
 
[3/19/14 12:21:44 AM] wardog4445: He burned his own soldier with holy fire, moogle.
[3/19/14 12:22:20 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: I did similar stuff.
[3/19/14 12:22:29 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: I tortured people with fire-brands from my finger.
[3/19/14 12:22:42 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: My trademark thing
[3/19/14 12:22:50 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: Pointing it to their forehead
[3/19/14 12:22:52 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: and executing them
[3/19/14 12:22:56 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: with a bolt of fire
 
Neither of you two acted in a clerical way, at all.


[3/19/14 12:25:19 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: My creator cleric
[3/19/14 12:25:29 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: was a psychopath with dissociative identity disorder
[3/19/14 12:25:31 AM] ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Perrin Ferioli / merrymoogle ᕕ( ᐛ )-b: had every evil

Without the supervision of the order, creator clerics, or toov hybrids have always abused their apparently holy connection. You can be a self-proclaimed holy magic user, by all means. However within the Clerical Order's eyes, the original owners of the lore, you are not. Toov himself would burn people alive with holy magics, you would reference actual religions, and Moogle tortured his prisoners with holy magic. All three of you were either first or second generation, the originals, teacher and students.
 
Needless to say, it has since devolved even further.
 
The MAT was a haven for abuse and taking advantage of one's positions. It's why Asulonian Liches were apparently so powerful, and why I as a war cleric could not harm one of them because they protected their bones with ice. At the same time, I had one of my student's applications originally accepted. Then a few hours it was retracted, and put on hold for more than a week. The reasons today still are unclear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chaqery only had his unique magics approved after being on the Magic Team. You yourself referred to me as a consultant for clerical lore. I'm not particularly inclined to agree on the legitimacy of the MAT's decisions after my personal experiences, nor particularly sympathetic considering that creator clerics really don't have any rites of passage. You choose to be a creator cleric, and you become one, anyone can do so. Something as powerful as being able to heal yourself through magics needs to be regulated and rules enforced. You do not get that with creator clerics. Also according to the current authorties, the Lore Masters, in regards to their responses in this topic... Creator clerics never were legitimate, since Chaqery made a magic app, and teacher app, to a magic that did not exist beyond his specific character's backstory. A backstory that he made, -after- getting the approval to role-play his magics.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

@Ski - I had to write this as a way to appease those who think they are better than us because they have clerical magic long before.

I do /not/ like being threatened with the loss of magic I have roleplayed for a long while. Even if /this/ specific written lore is not accepted, i /dont/ believe those of us who /have/ been roleplaying as creator clerics properly should lose our magic.

You say we are promoting fun? Its not fun when you have Tah clerics snubbing you OOCly and ICly because they are "better at clerical" than you.

Its not fun when you got them telling you they can post up lore as to why we suddenly can lose our magic.

Its not fun when they /demand/ you to have more drawbacks than even necromancy.

I ask that even if you deny this as the official creator cleric lore, that you do not remove our creator cleric magic. I will work with ski_king again and make new lore to explain everything if I have to.

But I am /begging/ that even if you deny this, we creator clerics who have invested so much time, roleplay it correctly, and actually /want/ to do good, still can without the fear of losing it just because a few tah clerics hate us or because a few of us went bad.

[The Templar 195]

I do /not/ like being threatened with the loss of magic I have roleplayed for a long while. Even if /this/ specific written lore is not accepted, i /dont/ believe those of us who /have/ been roleplaying as creator clerics properly should lose our magic.

You say we are promoting fun? Its not fun when you have Tah clerics snubbing you OOCly and ICly because they are "better at clerical" than you.

Its not fun when they /demand/ you to have more drawbacks than even necromancy.

But I am /begging/ that even if you deny this, we creator clerics who have invested so much time, roleplay it correctly, and actually /want/ to do good, still can without the fear of losing it just because a few tah clerics hate us or because a few of us went bad.

Currently it is not our policy to snub creator clerics OOCly. The reason I myself would prefer you to be capped at t3, is because the powers of a T5 are discussed frequently, particularly the regeneration of limbs. Current difficulty ranges from coma-inducing to currently impossible without a method the Council of Light is currently trying to to understand the limits of RPly, and develop OOCly in a fair and balanced manner. As such, it's difficult to give a straight answer on what the average cleric, even T5, is capable of.

 

As for the removal of the power to draw on the Creator Cleric, I'd like to quote you once again.

 

we want a magic that we can use that STRICTLY a healing type. No battle clerics. I /dislike/ clerics that shoot fire balls at people.

 

Clerics of Tahariae are divided into three, rply unofficial, designations that determine how far in the magic they progress. As of a recent restructuring following the reinstatement of the Council of Light, only the priests, who do -not- get war cleric, reach T5. Those priests that obtain it automatically fall outside my own purview and into a different council member's, losing the capacity to hit T5 healing. Those that have already hit would most likely see a bump down in tier. You say you want to just be healers, with no battle magic, and we can certainly provide you with that opportunity. This is exactly what Priests of Tahariae are. They are not warriors, but pure healers. Granted you would change patrons and have to abide by our rules, which are fairly nonforgiving in that once you are disconnected, you are permanently so. We also do not restrict them from carrying and being proficient with weapons, either.

[Katherine1 362]

@Ski - I had to write this as a way to appease those who think they are better than us because they have clerical magic long before.

I do /not/ like being threatened with the loss of magic I have roleplayed for a long while. Even if /this/ specific written lore is not accepted, i /dont/ believe those of us who /have/ been roleplaying as creator clerics properly should lose our magic.

You say we are promoting fun? Its not fun when you have Tah clerics snubbing you OOCly and ICly because they are "better at clerical" than you.

Its not fun when you got them telling you they can post up lore as to why we suddenly can lose our magic.

Its not fun when they /demand/ you to have more drawbacks than even necromancy.

I ask that even if you deny this as the official creator cleric lore, that you do not remove our creator cleric magic. I will work with ski_king again and make new lore to explain everything if I have to.

But I am /begging/ that even if you deny this, we creator clerics who have invested so much time, roleplay it correctly, and actually /want/ to do good, still can without the fear of losing it just because a few tah clerics hate us or because a few of us went bad.

How can you RP something properly that has no posted lore?

Here's the thing. You're wielding a copycat magic of something that is otherwise guildlocked. You should expect some amount of irritation from the guild you're copying. They probably see you as imposters IC and copycats OOC. Is there a solution? Well, they said they've taken in creator clerics before. They are probably much happier to be taking creator clerics in then having them run around diluting cleric RP.

As I see it, this particular lore is trying to do two things: 1. throw away some of what little differences exist between the order clerics and creator clerics to become more like the order clerics, and 2. establish an order for this group that is already is trying to act more like order clerics.

Stop. Just join the Clerics. Your character's faith and the Order's are incompatible? Have your creator cleric powers start to fail. Have a crisis of faith. There are ways to work your path so that it leads to the clerics.