Wars? Why Do We Promote Them?

[monkeymo14 53]

Speaking as a former nation leader, war is something that can rarely ever really be avoided, in one hand you have a group of people who want to war and fight, and the other, a group of people who simply want to roleplay. 

I'm sure many of the nation leaders out there would agree that a majority of their players also want to fight and war. It's not really a problem which can easily be resolved, since you have to canter for everybodies needs. 

For example, many of the members of the Decterum pressed for war against either the elves, or orcs. Whilst trying to change the image of "dirty item pvpers" quite simply I refused them, over a duration of time they became frustrated and annoyed, and eventually began to act on their own accords. 

Military orders NEED PvP to strive, or so some would think. Reality is, they do not. On numerous occasions I tried to combat those problems by giving the orders something to do, IE: Run drills, patrols, training sessions, but at the end of the day. There are still those who want to war because they're bored. 

 

I agree to those who say "war does not create ban reports, people do." Why do people do such a thing in times of war? To win, of course. Get rid of the key figures and victory is yours for the taking. it's a matter of strategy. 

 

Anyway, i'm just going to say that. For people who want roleplay, there are also those who crave for PvP wars, there is nothing really you can do to change that. Some people prefer the adventurous type of roleplay, some prefer the military type of roleplay.

The only real way I could say to combat it is to actual have both nation leaders discuss what happens, and when it happens, with the exception of warclaims, of course. 

What is bolded is the truth. Dear god it is the truth.

[_pok_ 1768]

The problem on this server is not just some broad 'war is bad' type of thing, it's really a 'we have no idea how the **** to RP during war other than attack each other' type of thing.

 

Here is the problem. Way back in Asulon, me and Aislin had this great idea where during the Salvus war where we would move around, march with our armies set up tents, bring civilians along as help to feed and supply the army. Basically, picking up a nation and moving it from war camp to war camp until we had a battle. The problem was, nobody wanted to do it. Why? Nobody wants to RP during war, they just want to log on the day of a warclaim and fight it out.

 

The issue is that our server, and really no server, knows how to RP war. Wars can and should be exciting times for a nation, but the opposing forces also have to recognize that there is a 50/50 chance they won't win, and in many ways they have to understand they will suffer the consequences.

 

Look at the Salvus War (First one: Asulon), think of all the RP that lead up to that. There were negotiations in secret, legitimate spying where people would sneak into each other's palaces. Betrayal from the Teutons that would then spark conflicts later on, and then the actual destruction of the nation. It all happened in RP and was a catalyst for all the events and RP that came in it's wake, most notably King Godfrey and the Holy Oren Empire (if you even try to argue that that was somehow not RP, or good RP, I will link you all the 3000 word posts for that damn Empire's rise and fall). 

 

I think in order to establish wars that a majority of the population can have fun and RP in, you need to have at least two things. One: A determined set of rules that are followed and enforced TO THE LETTER, make a team of capable people from each and every nation to enforce these rules (because to be honest, I don't think most GMs or Admins can or know how to handle them properly, just look at their history with wars). Two: Have some sort of system set up that allows for war to take a long time, battles occur every so often with little changes. Sieges should last AT LEAST a week IRL and involve siege roleplay of incredible size and scale. Similar scenarios for battles that aren't small skirmishes/raids.

 

TL;DR

Wars on LoTC could be amazing, we have the resources to make them so, but they're a failure because we don't know how to RP War

[osumanduas 1442]

 

They made the Adunian playerbase go from 40+ to less then 10.

 

Yeah, they're /fantastic/.

 

 

They made the Orcish playerbase go from -40 to more then 10.

[yopplwasupxxx 5946]

You're wrong, mate. Adunia consisted of 50 players that were active on their Adunian characters aprox. 80% of the week. War brought stress, brought discomfort, and eventually - one by one - they left, including myself. You can't RP rebuilding a nation because there's always people trying to attack you, even if in RP you don't have a military. Most wars consist of people getting armor and weapons from who-knows-where and preparing to fight without any ranks nor RP whatsoever. It's bullcrap, sincerely.

As I was one of the Thanes of Adunia at the time, I'm going to agree with Ballnazor and disagree with you. Adunia didn't have "50 people" it could just bring up to war, maybe 15-20 people maximum, 25 on a good day. And the war, in my eyes, was pretty fun. It was a war of survival, and its our RP fault that we didn't prepare successfully. Also, wouldn't it make sense to attack a nation who didn't have a military? Most wars do contain a functional rank system, look at the Orcs with their Wargoth/Elder/Warbozz system, Oren with its multiple military orders such as the Decterum and OSL, and the Dwarves with their legion.

[SirSnowMan 318]

Guys lotc is a Tavern-Only Rp Server.

[LPT 771]

I never see dwarves unless there is a war. I see human politics boost when internal conflict is happening, and Orcs actually do something during war. Elves are the only player base that does not benefit from war. And they make that very clear and voiced.

[Draeris 3124]

We all sometimes need a break from our Personal Computer, and do a bit of morning yoga!

 

[Devland99 180]

I know why we promote them, because we have 6 year olds screaming in nation leaders ears all day!

[Katherine1 362]

It feels like wars and combat are held up as the pinnacle of RP on this server, and this has just grown over the (slightly less than a) year I've been here. If they're is a good balance between war and other types of RP, it seems like we have not only fallen into having too much war, but that even discussion of trying to pull the server back to a healthier balance is met with hostility and demonization. (As is typical for a contentious issue on LotC)

[Zezimus 1523]

Looking through a lot of the arguments against server warfare, I'm really just seeing the same claim over and over that people enjoy them purely for the thrill of PvP. I'll try to make an argument against that as I believe wars in LotC are a lot more important than many would care to make out. I would argue that war has been an integral part of what Lord of the Craft has become since its founding. Even the racial lore of the server suggests that the races were intended from the very beginning to conflict. The Orcs and Dwarves in particular had an emphasis upon their love of battle for example.

 

Now I once saw war as a bad thing when it came to those who didn't want it. However as time went on and I looked back at how wars had changed the server, quite often for the better, I realised why they were really so important. They provide change and a break away from the norm of nation RP. Just look at the situation when Oren and Urguan were allied  There was no major server warfare but people hated it because the two most powerful nations at the time were allied and could basically just do whatever they wanted. Even the RP grew stale as there was little to no conflict outside of inter-nation wars. When these ended, players just grew bored or resorted to random attacks on peaceful communities.

 

Without wars, there would be no pressure on nations to up their game, no real threats to a ruler’s authority and therefore no opportunity for change. Every period of nation evolution in LotC has been marked by the occurrence of a war or conflict. In addition, it is because we have conflict and warfare that new nations can arise. With them, comes new types of RP and new opportunities for different players to take charge and gain power. In my opinion, this is what makes Lord of the Craft so interesting and is one of the many reasons why I continue to play. You can go away from the server for a year and then come back to find it’s a completely different place.

 

As for those who prefer to RP in peace, I would recommend trying to join a nation that already has an effective military. That way, you wouldn’t be under such a huge threat when a nation attempts to warclaim you. That’s why the best nations in my opinion are those who can balance RP within their capitals, while also having a suitable military force to back them up.

 

In the end, I think that whatever anyone tries to say, war isn’t going anywhere. What’s really important is that we try to make it as enjoyable and fair as possible.

[Song Druid 1486]

It's all about leadership.  Like Gauis said in Aegis we had mature leaders in the form of Mogroka (though his maturity plummeted as he ascended to Admin) and we had Luchian and Gaius and so many more that really made for a fun time in wars.  It was never about totally dominating each other, it was more about the nations working together to make displays of power to others and it worked out in a really neat way.

 

Using Zeizimus above me as an example-I've known him for 2 years and as a nation leader I expect that he brings to the table the same maturity and stability that we saw in Aegis.  There are some groups that are still getting there but what needs to happen is they need to be taken care of, not war itself.

[3VN 136]

Wars are fun. I think anyone in the Blackmont-Teutonic war would agree on that.

[mmat 7460]

Wars are fun. I think anyone in the Blackmont-Teutonic war would agree on that.

 

+1

 

However, despite the PvP this war was fun for one more reason, constant hostility. Salvus was a constant hotbed for Sariant-Flay/Carrion/Rose skirmishes and tensions which generated such cool roleplay, it was my favourite roleplay I've ever had. Lastdash, Hunwald and the Blood Eagles being hunted down by Sertorius Cagan and I for about three hours, such fun.

[__WaterFox__ 636]

In the real world politicians end a war, here its the people that get banned the most or rage quit. In other words smash them in battle then leave them alone, they want to have another fight? Smash then write up a treaty

[Samson Option 9652]

Although it does appear that folks loved the Blackmont - Teuton War and it looked intriguing, I think folks are doing either of two things:

 

a. Looking at it with rosy-tinted goggles.

b. They've sorta forgiven each other for the amount of griping and blithely pitiful internet bullshittery they pulled.

 

That war was terrible with how much mistreatment you all showed each other. Between passing each other's ripped Facebook photos which would creep me out and in real life, you'd probably get ostracized for how pathetic that was, calling Mirtok a brainwasher over some silly arsed powerpoint, Coaster being called a *** 24/7, and the amount of underhanded misbehavior - that war was rather low and disappointing.

 

That being said, I am glad ya'll are cool with each other regardless. No point holding e-grudges over a video game.