Mankaar 166 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why would the undead have to do that? That ruins the surprise completely. Are you serious. Abuse of raid rules and war rules!?!?!? THEY ARE THE UNDEAD! THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DECLARE WAR OR HAVE LIMITS! THEY AREN'T THERE LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER! THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLING YOU! not making warclaims and following "raid rules" True that brother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezimus 1523 Share Posted October 12, 2014 ^ refer to my earlier post do you think the undead in aegis followed raid rules? Hah no! And thats what made them unpredictable and fun. I was agreeing with you but yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swgrclan 2682 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I've been seeing a lot of complaints that sound like they are being made before things have even happened. You folks need to stop sticking to the rules and accept that the Undead may have a little more leeway over this complicated raiding/war system, as it was back when they first existed (though no one gave a **** and a half about raid rules, people just dealt). Do not barricade yourself with the mountain of rules that were created to keep nitpickers happy through the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heff 2460 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I was agreeing with you but yeah. ((I was agreeing with you too... lol sorry if I didnt make it sound like that xD)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdwhisperer 1174 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think the Undead should decide whether they are a player faction or an event team faction. If they're a player faction, they should be subject to the same rules as other players, and if they are an event team faction they should be held to higher standard of rp. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heff 2460 Share Posted October 12, 2014 But they're both and they should be treated as such Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 879 Share Posted October 12, 2014 If someone kills another in a fight with the same weapons, it's more impressive than someone shooting an unarmed person in the face with a gun and killing them that way. If the Undead create a threat without having to go around the rules, they'll be taken far more seriously. Right now people still find each other to be a bigger threat than the Undead, there's the same amount if not more warclaims between normal factions. The downfall of Anthos' antag was that people were more annoyed OOCly than scared RPly at them, and that was due to making them able to just completely go round the normal OOC way of war, as well as OP spells. I think the Antag now shouldn't be following the path of previous in this regard, unless they actually want to fail as an Antagonist. A pragmatic solution over one that has failed previously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E__V__O 2000 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 As things stand, that would basically mean no raids whatsoever. Not to say I agree with the current rules against normal players but can it really be expected that undead should have to adhere to that? That'd mean none of the surprise attacks on cities that we've been seeing, and as I said also, it could take about five to six weeks to conquer a settlement. It just wouldn't make sense. I'm fairly sure this would work against the undead as well, as it would require only one warclaim to conquer a settlement that they control. The undead are a player orientated group of members not heavily controlled with OOC. Though if you go by the tactic five to six weeks of attacking a settlement, wouldn't that be good for role play besides one battle? I mean constant undead fights trying to siege the capital city and conquer ownership or remove it. Besides one battle that would last three hours and hardly any progression of other things considered? Are you serious. Abuse of raid rules and war rules!?!?!? THEY ARE THE UNDEAD! THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DECLARE WAR OR HAVE LIMITS! THEY AREN'T THERE LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER! THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLING YOU! not making warclaims and following "raid rules" Heff, The post I made was clarification, people commented about it. This isn't complaining. Though you state how they are the undead, a big group of people that are the server created player ran and watched without heavy OOC following them. They have leeway of raid // war rules, shouldn't it be good to find out how much leeway they have? Incase they go overboard? I think the Undead should decide whether they are a player faction or an event team faction. If they're a player faction, they should be subject to the same rules as other players, and if they are an event team faction they should be held to higher standard of rp. I would have to like this post here, if they are a player running group or event team they should state such. Though in my belief an player orientated ran group which has the title "Player-Ran-Faction-Antagonist" would be bad as it promotes that a normal player can work their character up to becoming an antagonist that isn't affiliated with the current "Player-Ran-Faction-Antagonist". Which it isn't possible to do. - So yes a clarification on, the raid // war rules they can follow, just incase they go over-the-top and we can report it. Thank you ~ttwesten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaCabra (Soda) 1519 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think part of what makes an antagonist exciting is that it's unexpected and that attacks happen out of the blue and unbeknownst to the players. There is a giant lightning strike on top of the castle in Petrus? Everyone says "OhfrickIneedtogorallymyforcesorpeoplearegonnafrickindie!" and they get excited as they march off to war... It's unexpected, you're not sitting there waiting for it to happen. This is what happened in Aegis, I remember sprint jumping with my sword from Laurelin to Al'khazar on one occasion because people were screaming "UNDEAD ATTACK!" Another time I marched with a huge band of Orcs to the Dwarven city because of the same thing. Now, when you have an antagonist require warclaims and whatnot... All of that is flipflopped. The excitement is taken out of an attack. That's what was special about the Undead, they were dynamic and did their own secretive thing... What's the fun in just sitting at your keep waiting for an army to attack? I do believe, however, that as antagonist players, the Undead need to be held to a much higher standard. None of those crappy Orc/Human raids of 3.5 should happen, those sucked bad. You guys shouldn't be using human bandits to fight alongside you, that's dumb. Don't be just a simple mage alongside regular bandit joes. You're a f***ing Undead. You're expected to make something exciting happen, so do that. Kill a group of merchants on the side of the road and send their bodies back to their village, terrorize people inside of an inn, win over nobles and corrupt them, get evil groups to do your bidding! Cause mayhem! Plant spies everywhere, get minions to go steal gold for your stores, BE EVIL! To refer back to the main post, I think the antagonist deserves a bit of leeway on things... They're not held to the same rules as ordinary players (besides obvious things like cyber and stuff), because they're the ANTAGONIST. The EVIL OF THE SERVER. THE MAIN ENEMY THAT LEGEND TELLS OF. "Oh, humans have to follow the rules, Elves have to follow the rules!" they're not the antagonist. The antagonist is literally meant to cause trouble. Let them do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezimus 1523 Share Posted October 13, 2014 ((I was agreeing with you too... lol sorry if I didnt make it sound like that xD)) Oh no worries, probably just misunderstood, lol. The undead are a player orientated group of members not heavily controlled with OOC. Though if you go by the tactic five to six weeks of attacking a settlement, wouldn't that be good for role play besides one battle? I mean constant undead fights trying to siege the capital city and conquer ownership or remove it. Besides one battle that would last three hours and hardly any progression of other things considered? Maybe for a week or two but for six weeks? The entire RP would just become completely stale by then. To all those saying Undead should follow normal rules and yet still act as a threat, I've got to ask how exactly you think that would work? They wouldn't be a threat simply because they could do next to nothing but make planned events. As anyone from Aegis can tell you, the old undead were about a whole lot more than that. If the staff wishes to recreate the same feel the Aegis antagonist had, it just isn't possible to make them follow every single restriction we currently have set on normal players and still expect them to play an active role in Athera. As SuperSodaPops said, the RP should be of a high standard, which hopefully the antagonist players can provide by themselves. I think some of you just need to give them a chance and see how it goes. The antagonist has barely begun and people are already complaining over the smallest things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E__V__O 2000 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 I was just offering suggestions as this is an assistance thread. I really only wish to ask what the undead can // cannot do in raids and warclaims. Though I was from Aegis, I remember the battles and they were fun, sparked, and instant. It was good and alright. Each battle lasted at least 3 hours on a capital. Though I felt like it left out some progression which could of been improved on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elindor 666 Share Posted October 15, 2014 There is a difficulty in having the player-run-following-the-rules antagonist, as well as those players then having their cool Undead powers. If they were able to have the kinds of numbers they would need to adhere to normal raid rules successfully, then the undead would literally not be stoppable. So: as long as someone knows what the specific guidelines are for Undead fights, raids and wars, I don't care about seeing them. The rules don't really need to be public. Just so long as they do exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappy 1599 Share Posted November 11, 2014 This players questions have been answered and the situation resolved.Should you wish to have this reopened, please PM me your reasons why it should be so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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