Another Question

[Abeam 511]

Dwarven legion ==)))

haha, thats a great joke, they're really good at organized retreats, Ill give them that

[Leric 1097]

 

 

What did they do that made them so infamous?

 

 Defending itself in the Orenian Civil War against the Roses and Blackmonts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And who won that war? White Rose. Who ordered the legendary sally that decimated the Teuton, Lion Knights, and Salvian forces? Tommy Boy - Leader of the White Rose

White Rose wins 

 

Edit: I have no clue how I just did that white background

[Samson Option 9652]

Canadian brings up a good point and this leads me further into saying "There is no definitive best military organization".

 

The Teutonic Order is responsible for breaking open the Pandora's Box of War Roleplay, this cannot be contested seeing as the only real fighting other than the Teutonic Order was against a server antagonist [namely, the Undead].

 

The Order of the White Rose is responsible for adding a crazy amount of detail and tactician's play into said war roleplay, this cannot be contested. Think of the White Rose as perhaps a Medieval: Total War-like playthrough to Minecraft PvP. The Teutonic Order was crazily sneaky, I led the Teutons against a GM meta-gaming my entire army, but I didn't treat PvP with the level of depth that Tom and Steven did.

 

The Flay bandits are definitely one of the best dark horses in that this war group consisted of some of the best PvPers on par that the server has seen.

 

Give credit where credit is due.

[Kardel 1054]

Emperor Thorin Grandaxe's Legion subdued a whole continent.

 

I think that qualifies it as the strongest. 

 

HOWEVER.

 

The White Rose, Flays, and Teutonic Order were also forces to be reckoned with. In fact, in terms of long term vitality, these organizations top the Legion. If I had to choose from these three, it'd be the White Rose because they had damned good RP. Shame they left...

[hellfiazz 879]

okay, ya'll humans can debate all you want

 

but the iron horde of krugmar, pound for pound, remains supreme

[craotor 617]

Emperor Thorin Grandaxe's Legion subdued a whole continent.

 

I think that qualifies it as the strongest. 

 

HOWEVER.

 

The White Rose, Flays, and Teutonic Order were also forces to be reckoned with. In fact, in terms of long term vitality, these organizations top the Legion. If I had to choose from these three, it'd be the White Rose because they had damned good RP. Shame they left...

Didnt you lose the battle of the Crossing and only subdued the continet after Oren did its famous Exodus?

[NomadGaia 930]

I would have to say the white rose. I was genuinely terrified to enter human lands with them around.

 

Edit: I'm saying this in terms of rp effect. This was the only group I actually took seriously, and made me scared to enter other lands.

[bulgaria is white 461]

The Starstruck bandits

[Nug 2011]

me and my goblin crew

[Cracker 4570]

To give OP some credit, he's asking a bunch of different questions at once, so there is no one answer here.

 

The most infamous military organization? I think that belongs to House Flay bannermen, an absolute terror and scourge on the field. While lacking the discipline necessary to attain more prestigious honors, the Teutons nor the Roses can boast creating such absolute havoc in terms of raiding potential and shock value. The Flays had a near monopoly on the best PvPers on the server, only rivaled by a select few Teutons, and thus they were most able to spread their name through successful raids despite insurmountable odds. (Khabbi, Haelunor, Mt. Ire)

 

The most influential? The White Rose, of course. While I think they never conducted operations as grandiose as the Flays or Teutons, the White Rose has a far better PR than either group due to their standard of RP and success in managing to stay on the good side of history, so to speak. They are more WR saints and more WR figures of renown than any other military organization and they have left a lasting impact on human culture as a whole, for better or worse.

 

The most successful? It pains me deeply, but I have to admit that the Teutonic Order may have a better claim than the White Rose. As much as I know I'll get flak for it, the White Rose just wasn't around long enough as the TO, and the Teutonic Order technically had a much longer hegemony as the dominant military order historically from the Aegis to Fringe/ early-Anthos period. As an Aegis lurker, I can say that the Teutonic Order was a far more relevant force in Aegis than in Anthos, and the Teutonic Order actually had a legitimate succession, evolution, and change in ideals with various different Hochmeisters.

 

Under Mirtok, unfortunately these ever-changing ideals led it to collapse, but its run and achievements are loftier than that of the short-lived Rose, whose self-imposed Exodus prevented it from evolving and growing as an order. WR ideology forced it to stagnate while the TO survived much longer; if not for Mirtok's mistakes, the TO would have a far greater legacy in Oren today simply due to longevity with many great battles under their belt (only the Flays and Teutons can boast killing dozens upon dozens of enemies in a 5-man raid, let alone the Teutonic Order solo'ing the dwarven nation and winning on their own)

 

 

Dwarven Legion doesn't get to claim 'subduing the human realms' as one of their achievements, lets get that cleared up, because the submission of human sovereigns to the dwarven yoke was due to diplomatic, not military pressures. I'm sure William Horen armies alone could have bested a dwarven invasion at the time, let alone the entire might of man.

[Travista 1361]

Have mercy!

 

I suppose I'll reserve this spot for the Teutonic Order when I get off work.

Heil Mirtok.

[Mirtok 2853]

To give OP some credit, he's asking a bunch of different questions at once, so there is no one answer here.

 

The most infamous military organization? I think that belongs to House Flay bannermen, an absolute terror and scourge on the field. While lacking the discipline necessary to attain more prestigious honors, the Teutons nor the Roses can boast creating such absolute havoc in terms of raiding potential and shock value. The Flays had a near monopoly on the best PvPers on the server, only rivaled by a select few Teutons, and thus they were most able to spread their name through successful raids despite insurmountable odds. (Khabbi, Haelunor, Mt. Ire)

 

The most influential? The White Rose, of course. While I think they never conducted operations as grandiose as the Flays or Teutons, the White Rose has a far better PR than either group due to their standard of RP and success in managing to stay on the good side of history, so to speak. They are more WR saints and more WR figures of renown than any other military organization and they have left a lasting impact on human culture as a whole, for better or worse.

 

The most successful? It pains me deeply, but I have to admit that the Teutonic Order may have a better claim than the White Rose. As much as I know I'll get flak for it, the White Rose just wasn't around long enough as the TO, and the Teutonic Order technically had a much longer hegemony as the dominant military order historically from the Aegis to Fringe/ early-Anthos period. As an Aegis lurker, I can say that the Teutonic Order was a far more relevant force in Aegis than in Anthos, and the Teutonic Order actually had a legitimate succession, evolution, and change in ideals with various different Hochmeisters.

 

Under Mirtok, unfortunately these ever-changing ideals led it to collapse, but its run and achievements are loftier than that of the short-lived Rose, whose self-imposed Exodus prevented it from evolving and growing as an order. WR ideology forced it to stagnate while the TO survived much longer; if not for Mirtok's mistakes, the TO would have a far greater legacy in Oren today simply due to longevity with many great battles under their belt (only the Flays and Teutons can boast killing dozens upon dozens of enemies in a 5-man raid, let alone the Teutonic Order solo'ing the dwarven nation and winning on their own)

 

 

Dwarven Legion doesn't get to claim 'subduing the human realms' as one of their achievements, lets get that cleared up, because the submission of human sovereigns to the dwarven yoke was due to diplomatic, not military pressures. I'm sure William Horen armies alone could have bested a dwarven invasion at the time, let alone the entire might of man.

 

 

TLDR; Gaius, Tornado and Cracker sum it up fine, I did some crazy but cool ****, thanks for the memories.

 

This along with what Tornado and a few others had said make it all up nicely. If I had actually written a post I would have outlined just about all that was said and even added some of the drawbacks of having Mirtok as its leader.

 

Some of our greatest strengths eventually became our greatest weaknesses. Strong polarized leadership contributed to the Teutonic Order sky rocketing to great heights, fielding large numbers and overall achieving great success. But- especially in the case of the Civil War in Anthos- you knock out that leader and you lose practically all of the Order's military strength. My ban and the removal of Mirtok as the Hochmeister came at a really shitty time, being the most defining war in Human history. From that war literally spawned everything that we regard as Human today, if the Order had won who knows what kind of place Humanity would be, better or worse. (I know I would never have "taken over" that's just not how I played.) But in the end, the White Rose were able to become the definition of Oren's military once and for all, the Carrions were allowed to become the standard for Oren on a civic level and The Order was eventually phased out of Imperial culture forever.

 

I will admit to a botched handoff to a new leader in the wake of my ban, no need to sugar coat that, but it was a period of make or break decisions and I honestly at that time thought that few, even the Emperor himself could assume control and still achieve an acceptable conclusion to that war. It turns out I was right, what I said would have happened did in fact happen and we lost.

 

We fell from our peak because we were dealt a critical blow in the absolute height of the Imperial Civil War, unable to effectively employ our fullest capabilities and strengths in the battle because of out-of-roleplay circumstances and decisions. This in no way diminishes the glory awarded to the victors, but man it makes the sting of losing so much worse. I'm at my own core fine with what happened, I personally believe that at the end of the day the strongest earn their place of superiority and if the weaker simply cannot compete then their necessity is gone and are merely a luxury at that point- as far as Human militaries go.

 

On another note, I would like to comment on the Teutonic Order's infamy. The origins of it were spawned under Gaius who revolutionized the power that a military force actually has in RP, how players can literally arrest control of a whole nation from Admins of all people. He had to make some enemies on his journey, we unfortunately had to destroy a lot of other peoples hard work and dreams. There was simply too many slices made into the Human pie, not everyone could be the mayor of their own town, the guildmaster to their own knights, the this to their that and still have Humans be a significant force against something that was literally the only threat to the world we all played in. You can't have a cause without opposition, and no matter how good your cause is there will be those who simply cannot accept it, so we had to make them, even if it was for their own good or not.

 

Under Hochmeister Samuel Bealcrest, a lot of the meanness of the Order was drawn down and instead he tried to make friends with everyone. Friends with the weak, friends with the strong and so on. That not only allowed adversaries of the Teutonic Order to take advantage of the lull but also allowed the weaker ones to essentially leech off of us. Though it was not all bad, it wasn't all good and when Mirtok was asked to come out of exile and to lead the Teutonic Order he imposed drastically radical changes.

 

Under Mirtok all alliances were severed, beneficial or not. This upset many, those being the Dwarves and the Orcs. Really the Dwarven alliances were cut because they had really poor business practices and Mirtok just felt their leadership was distributed among too many. The Orcish alliance was cut because in the wake of Rex Mogroka- someone who if I'm not mistaken held Rex without ever losing it up until his departure for the Human RP- the Orcish leadership was widely inconsistent with a new Rex popping up almost every week via the Klomp method. A world war broke out that ended up as The World vs. Salvus, with Mirtok in the beginning participating with The World but as the first round of battles took place the Order was on the side of Salvus. Then the Empire was formed, and I guess many viewed the Teutonic Order as a threat to any sort of power climbs many were undertaking in the Empire. Some tried to challenge the Order and were destroyed, others like the Flays turned out to be polar opposites and conflict was simply natural. But the biggest factor of infamy for the Order came from the Teutonic Orders service to the Empire as opposed to all other eras before or after combined.

 

Under the Empire, the Teutonic Order became Godfrey's sword, pretty much the Emperor would come to Mirtok and tell him what he wanted- be it land, someones removal, the creation of technology and so on. Literally Godfrey's will was our command. And the way Mirtok ran things during that era was that everything we did was to serve the Emperor and nothing else mattered at all, not even the Empire. Everyone and everything was fair game and the only thing that could halt us was the Emperor. Of course we tried hard, or at least Mirtok tried hard to instill values of honor and professionalism but the reality of it was the Emperor needed a lot of dirty work done and dirty work makes people angry. I cared but at the same time I chose not to care, I liked purpose and I liked service and everything Mirtok ordered was in that pursuit. Everything else, all the titles, the land and the influence was awarded to Mirtok and the Order, seldom ever requested unless to better conduct the will of the Emperor in the manner he needed it done.

 

And I guess the rest of it just comes from sheer power, exertion, interaction and so on. The great deeds of one group becomes the demonized events of another. Equal exchange. That's the way the world works.

 

These were all just from my perspective. I've been around a while and as with all things, the farther you look back the fuzzier the details become. I appreciate that some of the communities most esteemed or influential players gave the Order credit with a fair amount of respect where it was due. I do not dispute what anyone has said about what they believe to be the greatest and why mainly because I agree with most of it. I'm just happy I got to do something cool.

 

EDIT: Might I add, what a really cool question to ask, thanks OP.

[Heff 2460]

Halflings

Edit:

Blackmonts/Flays easily the most brutal. They gave my Halfling a fear of armor for half of his life. In ale farthing they marched into the village I their armor suits and took 5 halflings to be a slave regiment in their war.

Influential/Infamous: White Rose. I took them seriously + made me RP fear

[Cracker 4570]

On another note, I would like to comment on the Teutonic Order's infamy. The origins of it were spawned under Gaius who revolutionized the power that a military force actually has in RP, how players can literally arrest control of a whole nation from Admins of all people. He had to make some enemies on his journey, we unfortunately had to destroy a lot of other peoples hard work and dreams. There was simply too many slices made into the Human pie, not everyone could be the mayor of their own town, the guildmaster to their own knights, the this to their that and still have Humans be a significant force against something that was literally the only threat to the world we all played in. You can't have a cause without opposition, and no matter how good your cause is there will be those who simply cannot accept it, so we had to make them, even if it was for their own good or not.

 

 

This tidbit really resonates with me; the Carrions faced the same issue upon taking power in purging the nobility. It seems history repeated itself 2-3 years later.

 

 

 

Really the Dwarven alliances were cut because they had really poor business practices and Mirtok just felt their leadership was distributed among too many.

 

I think this is when we first met, Mirtok! Sorry for snaking you of all those diamonds; I was a young hustler back then who'd do dirty things for shiny pixels.

 

I always saw the Flay vs TO conflict as one of not good and evil, which many tried to skew. It was clear that both organizations, from an OOC standpoint, represented the evils of the Empire. Rather their alignments differed in method, with the lawful and cold Teutonics versus the chaotic and wild Flays. It seemed chaos won at the end of the day, though one can only imagine what would have happened otherwise. Alternative history on LotC can be surprisingly fascinating.

 

Good memories, good times. Glad to see you aren't salty, at least on the surface. ;)

[Backup Lago 320]

White Rose takes the top spot by a looooooooooong way by the mark it made on history. Teutonic Order comes in at second, which considering how many military orders there have been is still pretty damn impressive.