Forced Conquest: Your View

[marimbamonk 1501]

Kind of indifferent about this; but I think it will add a tad of realism to have forced conquest, so I'll support it. I think it might be a bit too early to see the long-term effects.

[Aislin 4354]

I've learned the ways of based Aislin

 

I do not condone nor take any responsibility for anything said by this individual. Contact my lawyer for further details.

[The_Epic_Potato 69]

What do you mean by "non-primary" account?

[monkeypoacher 8055]

If Oren takes over the world, it's warriors will get bored by the lack of action and spoils, and they'll all retire or rebel. I'm assuming if Oren distended it's claim over the whole of Athera, it would lose to a rebellion an elven month later.

Y'all gotta chill and RP realistically and what not.

[Ricky 321]

I'm saying you don't have to piss off anyone if you get over the idea of this beign black and white, forced conquest or no forced conquest.

[LatzMomo 2088]

What people don't seem to understand is that forced conquest won't ruin Roleplay, it'll create more Roleplay, it'll force those who have a sense of safety for no reason, lose that, they won't be safe to be assholes to Oren, they won't be safe to bad mouth the most powerful factions on the server, i'm not saying that Oren deserves Respect OOC'ly, because after all, this is a game, and we are all players, I don't think it makes sense IC for people to be calling Oreners, Orener Scum, there should be at least a shred of fear or respect for the most powerful nation by far on the server, this goes for other powerful nations as well, the Orcs, they're like 8 feet hulking beasts of pure muscle! I legitimately wouldn't be surprised if someone shat themselves when they saw the Orcish horde, that would be terrifying in real life, so I imagine it would be terrifying in character! and lastly, the Dwarves, they're these hugely muscled midgets with the best smiths in the world, their weapons are insanely deadly, and their armor is insanely protective, on top of that, they're known for having some of the best enchanters on the map, when you're going to be disrespecting one, you should at least think twice, they're truly a strong nation

 

If you don't want to get fucked up, you better suck up.

[Publius 4098]

As someone that has only played while there is war, being denied the ability to make server history because people OOCly don't like Oren has always made me mad. Everyone makes fun of Oren's stability, but in the same sentence talk about how unbearable it would be to have Orenian personnel RPly overlord over a town. If we're not going to last, what does it really matter in the long run? The fact that a lot of people are speaking out against this as direct discrimination, rather than constructive discrimination, boils the hell out of my blood.

 

Let's face it: People are against Oren having forced conquest, not forced conquest as an idea.

 

People hate Oren.

 

This main complaint that we'll alter RP in an unbearable way is obviously blown out of the damn water when our only non-human vassals are preaching how little it has hindered their RP. Who among the nay sayers is an Orenian vassal? I want to hear from them, and good reason's, not anti Orenian rhetoric, but actual reason's. This include people who aren't plain rude, stereotyping or condescending.

 

Real reasons.

 

Personally, I see denying a conquest much like ignoring an emote. If some lumbering, 10 year veteran of the military manages to get pissed off at your poor, 10 year old high elf, and you were to say that he couldn't kill you because he was just too tough, you'd be a powergamer. Change this scenario a bit: You have a populous, powerful nation with gold pouring out its ears, and it floods the plains of your little hamlet, guarded by the men of their respective houses. While the army wants to occupy, they have to settle for destroying the settlement, even if IRP, they may have every reason to want to do nothing else but occupy it. It's turned down though, because a leader simply does not feel its fair that a large nation is beating on them.

 

That's powergaming.

 

Another reason I reckon people are so against Oren having forced conquest is because they've become bitter over the outcomes of wars with Oren. Our politicians are heavy handed, sure, but it'd be out of character for an ambitious, devious and greedy noble to want nothing less than all he can get. What is wrong with that? If you don't like that RP, submit, and then go about your business, since, as many of our vassals can confirm, it will not affect your RP much, if at all.

 

Numbers are low, sure, but have you considered exams, culminating activities, and last ditch efforts to save grades are currently underway, and ending in like a month? You can NOT say you support it, but just not at the moment, when low population comes in regular cycles like this all the time. I know personally, I'm performing 2 shows, doing a culminating activity, keeping up with Math homework and doing overtime at my co-op to assure my necessary number of hours, so I would have to strip time from IRL priorities atm to maintain the activity I used to. I'm sure everyone is much the same, so I think this lipping about a low population is moot.

 

As for population, you're only going to drive it down if you cater to the minority over discrimination against the majority. Tavern RPer's aren't denied their right to RP, even though people don't like it. Family RP may not be everyone's forte, but it doesn't mean we can it. So why should our RP as conquerors, something that would be temporary, be denied? Bandit RP is allowed, and literally, all it is, is taking someone's MC mechanical stuff. When the overlords come to occupy towns, they take nothing but RP titles. What is wrong with that? Why should we be denied the ability to do so? Sure, some people don't like it, but who among them has even experienced it? Again, much like tavern RP, it shouldn't be denied because some people don't like it.

 

Especially in this case, considering a majority like it.

 

It's w/e, honestly, but the inability to do forced conquest has fueled flame wars, promoted joke warclaims (see Oren's return to Hanseti and the wave of snowballs: As fun as that was, that was a legitimate RP event, and that's how it legitimately played out) and has seen many lose enjoyment getting caught in the crossfire of constant bickering.

 

In short, tl;dr: Deniable warclaims promote toxic behavior by frustrating the majority, giving players the ability to powergame, and making impossible the goals of nearly any war if the enemy side does not hold the same ones OOCly, which is simply a recipe for disaster. Population will only go down by displeasing the majority, and population is low because the time of year calls many to IRL responsibilities.

 

Edit: I'm doing an edit every now and again because my spelling and grammar is making my eyes bleed

[Jachnun 566]

Gonna have to agree w/ Publius here. I find it quite hypocritical to see such avid rp'ers who want their rp to go against Forced Conquest, denying conquest isn't even rp, what stops you from conquering ic lol nothing, its all ooc boundaries. So to me it seems like you don't actually value dynamic rp, consequences that happen in rp and just act selfish working for your own ooc benefit, which isn't really acting like a proper rp'er. You could argue that Oren is a **** rp nation but really look at the situation, Oren is one of the only nations that actually values dynamic rp, many Orenian nation leaders have accepted consequences in rp and went by doing so, Andrik Vydra, Franz Carrion, etc, and you can't really say that to other nation leaders, I hate to point fingers but specifically to the man who created this thread who's char by all means should b pk'd and a man who was for forced conquest before Oren wanted to conquer his nation. 

[christian2142 79]

I believe I said it before, and because of that I'll say it again:

 

Conquest is not unfair so long as a valid war, or rivalry is active between both parties. One that is thus recognized by the general community. Not just someone who is simply bored, and wishes to conquer a players hard work for the sake of mounting another head on their vast collection of pikes. If you lead a nation, or town, or any sort of fraction of the player-base under a common goal/philosophy/moral, you are only responsible for the destruction or loss of your hard work. To balance out forced conquest, I do believe the staff should regulate diplomacy. That is to say: If the defenders do not with to be conquered, they should be given a chance to negotiate. If they either refuse to negotiate, or refuse to agree on terms of the attackers (which should be limited in the terms they provide, so it is somewhat more savory than direct annex. Such an example would be this:

 

Nation A is at war with Nation B. Nation A declares a warclaim on a town of Nation B. The town of Nation B doesn't want to be conquered, because their player-base is loyal only to its current ruler, and would like to maintain some credit to their hard work. The staff as such enforce a chance to negotiate. Nation A proposes that the town gives them 75% of all resources they accumulate, pay taxes which compromise 90% of what the town collects periodically, and that they surrender the entirety of their military/guard. As such the town disagrees, or tries modifying the deal so they aren't completely bankrupt in the future. Nation A refuses, and conquers them anyway. Half if not more of the town quits unanimously, and boom. Server population drops an increment, and with that a portion of the role-play community. 

 

The above context would have worked fine up until Nation A's "proposal", which was made much out of favor to the player-base defending and obviously unacceptable. Perhaps lowering the resource tax to 25-50% would be more fair and should be regulated, and taxes should only go for 50-75%. This way the town can maintain some credit to its name, and autonomy, for a war they may not even be responsible for (as they are simply under a nation which got dragged into it). As for nation capitals, and cities with direct connection to contributing to the war/propagating/generally large-scale participation or instigation, they should be conquerable without question, so long as the war they are in is validated under circumstances of role-play. Those leading a nation should hold themselves responsible to the loses they bring upon themselves both ICly and OOCly, and take their community into consideration. This is how leaders in history are ousted, and replaced by more competent and capable people, or when more menacing individuals slink into the hierarchy in times of desperation to pursue darker deeds. That creates better roleplay, and acts as a better dynamic for nations, towns, etc. 

 

Moral of the story:

 

I strongly support forced conquest, but only under the terms stated above. G'day, my lovelies.

[zaezae 1098]

Man, maybe people should up and quit cause they couldn't RailRoad their RP exactly how they want. No, RP handled in RP. No skygod over sight. 

[mitto 2312]

Moved to The Great Library. It shall be sorted into the appropriate category shortly.

 

If you feel this is a mistake, please contact myself or any FM and we'll restore it.