Magic Cleanup: Your Thoughts On Subtypes

[Stag 3229]

No offense to anyone but you are all off topic. Ski is asking for what you guys think about specific subtypes. Other opinions on magic aren't going to really help him & the LM and should go to another thread.

 

In all honesty it may be best to just post the subtype list that the MAT is looking at.

[ski_king3 0]

In all honesty it may be best to just post the subtype list that the MAT is looking at.

 

That's part two. In all likelihood, it shall be done tomorrow.

[Cyndikate 2303]

No offense to anyone but you are all off topic. Ski is asking for what you guys think about specific subtypes. Other opinions on magic aren't going to really help him & the LM and should go to another thread.

 

In all honesty it may be best to just post the subtype list that the MAT is looking at.

I'll rephrase again. What specific subtypes?

 

All of them.

[ski_king3 0]

Why wasn't the list given outright? If it was to prevent hostilities then it's failed, as people being uncertain if their magic is on the line or not results in them being defensive. 

 

We started compiling our thoughts on various subtypes at the same time this post was made. LM's and MAT's have been posting periodically over the past few days.

[Ventusyr 233]

Eh. I don't think the subtypes need any changing or removing. Diversity in magic is neat, and we need subtypes to define sources of magic (Void magic comes from the void, clerical magic comes from Aengulic patrons, shamanism is from orcish spirits, etc etc). The magic system is a little wonky, to be sure, but I don't suggest removing all the subtypes and writing an entirely new magic system, or even removing some. That will create more drama and more work than necessary.

[Lark 2227]

Personally I'd prefer a total magic overhaul. Rework everything. Remove this magic comes from nothing(the void) and have it something more updated. Something that I can sink my teeth into and read

[Anderssn 1115]

Make it go away!

[Nug 2011]

If this is still a thing, I find it kinda dumb that Xan paladins can use void magic and other users of deity magic can't, there's no explanation as to why they can. I also think it doesn't make sense when Xan is the Aengul of order and the void is a plane of pure chaos.

 

Another magic that is kinda off in my opinion is Dark Shamanism, the lore is hard to find (link here) and there should probably be a guide for it. In the lore it says that hardly anyone should know it yet I've been seeing more Dark Shamans than actual Shamans. It should probably be restricted on how many people know it until Shamanism reemerges.

[Ventusyr 233]

If this is still a thing, I find it kinda dumb that Xan paladins can use void magic and other users of deity magic can't, there's no explanation as to why they can. I also think it doesn't make sense when Xan is the Aengul of order and the void is a plane of pure chaos.

 

Another magic that is kinda off in my opinion is Dark Shamanism, the lore is hard to find (link here) and there should probably be a guide for it. In the lore it says that hardly anyone should know it yet I've been seeing more Dark Shamans than actual Shamans. It should probably be restricted on how many people know it until Shamanism reemerges.

 

From what I've heard, Xan paladins can't. No deity magic can (except for Ascended pre-reforms, but they were a bit OP), but this is the third time I've heard of them using Void magic, so... Someone needs to crack down on that.

 

To be honest, release more guides and lore. There is nothing lore-wise on Xan paladins currently other than their creation lore and history. Nothing on their powers, red lines, power progression, nothing. There's nothing for Ascended, either, but I understand this is because of current debate between them and the LMs about what they can or cannot do magicwise (in which case, publish some lore and have players comment on and critique the abilities. Don't just rely on LT).

 

There should be no secret lore. Call people out if they metagame abilities or something, but its impossible for someone to call you out on powergaming if they don't know what your abilities are.

 

That's all I have to say about magic.

[Samsan99 274]

From what I've heard, Xan paladins can't. No deity magic can (except for Ascended pre-reforms, but they were a bit OP), but this is the third time I've heard of them using Void magic, so... Someone needs to crack down on that.

 

 

We can (( at lest for now )) but at a cost to our Xan magic if you want to talk about it Ask tsu. I do think we need to have all of that lore though but the clerics where the same until a few weeks ago so give it time.

[Ventusyr 233]

We can (( at lest for now )) but at a cost to our Xan magic if you want to talk about it Ask tsu. I do think we need to have all of that lore though but the clerics where the same until a few weeks ago so give it time.

 

Actually, no. We've had guides and lore since the first clerics in Aegis, they were just typically included with our guild posts. Hosper and wardog's updated 2014 guides were our source for how to play a cleric and our red lines prior to my release. The only reason I wrote the lore was because there were several ambiguities and a lot of stuff needed to be spelled out. Its more of many additions to cleric magic, as well as some changes. The only thing that lorewise wasn't published anywhere (but still accepted by LT) was blessing and warding.

 

Void magic's relationship with deity magic is the connection to the deity greatly diminishes the voidal connection. Say, Tier 5 void mage would drop to T2 upon connection, and by the time they're a tier 2 whatever they've lost all voidal powers. The point is, you cannot have a Deity magic and a Void magic. It's overpowered and it doesn't make much sense. The only ones that can do that are the monks, but its fine because they can't use Voidal magic in combat, or do anything combat-wise.

 

Push for your higher-ups to publish some lore, friend. You've had since Xan's first appearance fighting Setherien to do so. That's a lot of time.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

I'll toss in my two cents as a person who generally plays low fantasy medieval knight characters.

 

  There have to be like five magic types that are basically identical in purpose. While they may be stylistically different or perhaps come from different places, I feel like shade magic, blood magic, and necromancy make each other redundant. The least used of the three deserves the axe. My poor characters have been assailed by so many different sorts of 'dark tendril' and 'evil mist' and yet each time their ominous summoner belongs to a different agenda.

  To the common man, what is the difference between a Wraith and a Graven? The evil creatures and evil magics overlap, they contradict and compete. There have to be at least three types of ghost analogue, or floating evil cloth apparition.  There are bizarre undeads and not-quite-deads galore. While I've noticed that an evil fellowship is beginning to take shape, don't the innumerable different sorcerers and sorts of devils stir factionalism within the ranks of Vailor's degenerates?

  Please do declutter the spooky arcane of LoTC, for the good of muggles like myself.

[Mankaar 166]

A more simplified magic categorization has been needed for a long time now, any magics that seem redundant should either be combined or removed all together. Dark arts magic, for example is all extremely similar there must be a way to simplify it to just a few subtypes.

 

While not mentioned in the original post I'd propose the LM and MAT work together to overhaul the magic system (The process of obtaining it) as well. The return of magic applications from the past with barely any edits to it is astoundingly irritating. You're starting with a broken, flawed system and trying now trying to simplify magic and that's just going to end poorly. Look at the flaws of the current system (Clique magic, difficulty of the teaching process, freedom of roleplay, ect.) and work on finding an actual fix instead of a copy paste. There was a reason it was removed in the past, because it didn't work and it had many issues now's the time to fix the mess magic has become once and for all.

[Mephistophelian 977]

If this is still a thing, I find it kinda dumb that Xan paladins can use void magic and other users of deity magic can't, there's no explanation as to why they can. I also think it doesn't make sense when Xan is the Aengul of order and the void is a plane of pure chaos.

 

Another magic that is kinda off in my opinion is Dark Shamanism, the lore is hard to find (link here) and there should probably be a guide for it. In the lore it says that hardly anyone should know it yet I've been seeing more Dark Shamans than actual Shamans. It should probably be restricted on how many people know it until Shamanism reemerges.

Dark shamansim is being revamped. There are many normal shamans, and they are all active. You simply do not see them.

[Mephistophelian 977]

I'll toss in my two cents as a person who generally plays low fantasy medieval knight characters.

 

  There have to be like five magic types that are basically identical in purpose. While they may be stylistically different or perhaps come from different places, I feel like shade magic, blood magic, and necromancy make each other redundant. The least used of the three deserves the axe. My poor characters have been assailed by so many different sorts of 'dark tendril' and 'evil mist' and yet each time their ominous summoner belongs to a different agenda.

  To the common man, what is the difference between a Wraith and a Graven? The evil creatures and evil magics overlap, they contradict and compete. There have to be at least three types of ghost analogue, or floating evil cloth apparition.  There are bizarre undeads and not-quite-deads galore. While I've noticed that an evil fellowship is beginning to take shape, don't the innumerable different sorcerers and sorts of devils stir factionalism within the ranks of Vailor's degenerates?

  Please do declutter the spooky arcane of LoTC, for the good of muggles like myself.

Using ignorance as an excuse for wanting a magic gone is a bit poor. The magics you mentioned are immensely different from one another. My advice is, next time a dark mage does their spooky RP, to ask them OOC questions. I'm sure they won't refuse to tell you, and you might get a little OOC lesson on the differences!