Department Initiative & Recent Events Explained

[AGP 3169]

4 minutes ago, TeaLulu said:

We have feedback threads, and if the Forum dept could be completely and utterly redone to be less horrendously overly-defensive of their friendos (though ironically not of upper staff, whom, it is apparent, don't give them as many direct benees), to the point people felt comfortable posting feedback, discussing feedback, and gathering feedback, and if the administration made a point of listening to this feedback in a balanced way (Which, I think, in the past, they have shown the ability to listen to the vast shitfits we vomit on the forums, to an extent. Moreso than previous teams, anyways). Then feedback would be a reasonable way to assess these things; But only if players were protected when they made reasonable feedback, instead of being villified- And I do mean players and not just staff being defended by other staff when other other staff delete their posts. 

 

Otherwise what else do you propose that is reasonable?

There is no other reasonable system, but since we have admins that seem (keyword; seem - I've no idea if they actually are or not) to not listen to feedback we're basically ******* boned when it comes to getting what we want. All this protocol crap is well and good, but in the end a good administration team doesn't need it and a bad administration team won't adhere to it so protocols are a moot point. All I know is that the decisions coming down from the administration make me want to roleplay on LotC less, and that I'm not alone in that sentiment. 

I think the staff needs to take a step back from all this system theorycrafting and re-evaluate why they exist and what they're actually here to do. Telanir touched on direction in his OP and that's exactly what the staff team lacks. Imo the staff exists to do two things; keep the server online (pay the bills etc.) and support/encourage roleplay. They seem to be doing the former but they are definitely, /definitely/, not doing the latter.

[big narstie 1701]

tbh don't think tht the idea behind being a gm is literally to abuse **** like /fly and that not one of you except geoboy66 became a gm to actually change things. actually scratch that not even change things, just help out. waiting 45 mins for a modreq and only getting it sorted when complaining in a public channel is outrageous. this is especially outrageous when there's 5-8 gms online and through use of /check only 2 (again geoboy66 tends to be the one) are actually answering modreqs. I have a firm belief that if there is a task that requires a moderator such as a modreq then the gm should drop what they're doing and put their rp on halt to deal with it. basically if there's an outstanding task then it needs to be done. gms need to start seeing the role that they have as a job and regardless of whether or not they volunteered for the role and treat the position that they've been entrusted by the community and the present staff members with a certain degree of responsibility. in my line of work I could do 1000 jobs in a day but if I was taking 45 minute comfort breaks to piss about whilst there were ongoing jobs then i'd get the sack. the average handling time for a modreq cant be more than 10 minutes realistically yet the average waiting time for one is literally 45 minutes. you have a modreq quota for every gm to fulfil but that's literally just a measure of activity. furthermore if there's a huge, blatant dislike and disdain for clearly reasonable reasons (Leowarrior, to name one) by a majority ff the server that gm should be instantly given a disciplinary and followed swiftly by a demotion if they haven't changed their ways

[Song Druid 1486]

This in my opinion doesn't address the abhorrent actions of administrators last night, who did not follow set guidelines for other moderators when issuing punishments, in some cases just handing them out without warning or any prior information.  

 

And when confronted about it in FM chat this is how they respond?

 

 

It just makes me even saltier.  I want to see a response from Fireheart.  I want to see him own up to his actions and I am sick of this baloney treatment of staff as if we don't have the right to give feedback on the forums.

[Telanir 6975]

Just now, AGiantPie said:

There is no other reasonable system, but since we have admins that seem (keyword; seem - I've no idea if they actually are or not) to not listen to feedback we're basically ******* boned when it comes to getting what we want. All this protocol crap is well and good, but in the end a good administration team doesn't need it and a bad administration team won't adhere to it so protocols are a moot point. All I know is that the decisions coming down from the administration make me want to roleplay on LotC less, and that I'm not alone in that sentiment. 

I think the staff needs to take a step back from all this system theorycrafting and re-evaluate why they exist and what they're actually here to do. Telanir touched on direction in his OP and that's exactly what the staff team lacks. Imo the staff exists to do two things; keep the server online (pay the bills) and support/encourage roleplay. They seem to be doing the former but they are definitely, /definitely/, not doing the latter.

 

Aye Telanir here, I get the bills paid, nice to meet you.

 

About protocol, I advise you reconsider. A healthy protocol is the best method to keeping a good Administration. A bad administration would never use it, but it allows a good administration to keep itself that way without seeming abrasive. Removing an Administrator can cause a clusterfuck if there is no process to it, because they can claim `corruption` or brown-nosing or whatever really.

 

Just now, big narstie said:

~snip~

 

Thank you. Similarly to the points I addressed in my main post.

[big narstie 1701]

Just now, Telanir said:

Thank you. Similarly to the points I addressed in my main post.

 

No, thank you!

[Telanir 6975]

3 minutes ago, Song Druid said:

~snip~

 

Please refer to the following post I have made not long ago.

 

[Hanrahan 2983]

A Universally bad idea that both players and GMs are asking the Admin to repeal; who's fighting tooth and claw to keep their meaningless reforms through big wordy posts that mean nothing? This is truly the way forward..

[TeaLulu 1783]

2 minutes ago, AGiantPie said:

There is no other reasonable system, but since we have admins that seem (keyword; seem - I've no idea if they actually are or not) to not listen to feedback we're basically ******* boned when it comes to getting what we want. All this protocol crap is well and good, but in the end a good administration team doesn't need it and a bad administration team won't adhere to it so protocols are a moot point. All I know is that the decisions coming down from the administration make me want to roleplay on LotC less, and that I'm not alone in that sentiment. 

I think the staff needs to take a step back from all this system theorycrafting and re-evaluate why they exist and what they're actually here to do. Telanir touched on direction in his OP and that's exactly what the staff team lacks. Imo the staff exists to do two things; keep the server online (pay the bills etc.) and support/encourage roleplay. They seem to be doing the former but they are definitely, /definitely/, not doing the latter.

It's sadly, I think, impossible to have an administration team that doesn't draw ire from some quarter of the server or another. "great" admins of all histories have all had people who disliked them, and "******* awful biznasty shitass terrornazi" admins have all had people who liked and defended them. (menarramenarramenarramenarra)

 

I have been in your same position; Decisions from different teams have all at one point or another made me want to stop playing LoTC. I literally stopped back when Menarra and Readicti kicked me from the dev team for what would become Vailor, because they were "just going to hire a map creator" and my services (which were on the coordinating end of: "What the hell, you guys don't have any idea what you want and you just threw ET on here and expect us to somehow make sense of this **** map when you don't even have a plan for what biomes you want where? Could you get your **** together, maybe?") were no longer needed. 

 

Yea, we're not always going to agree with decisions. But I've at least come to understand over the years that it's better to suggest an alternative than to just disagree; To come up with a legitimate alternative that could function efficiently and better than what the admins or mods or various other teams have decided to do. I don't think there is another reasonable system here, at least one I can think of.

 

Direction is a problem across all depts; most lack it. ED is guilty of this too. I'll be the first to admit that. Freema is working on potential fixes, while as for my own part I'm focused on a certain project, and hoping we can go into 5.0 with a fresh, better way to do events. Feedback on how we can improve directionally speaking is always welcome (for ED, anyways). 

 

I think all this OOC change and reorg stuff is necessary to sort of address a lot of the other issues, slowly but surely, floating around; bias, nepotism, abuse, bias, inactivity, etc. I think above the reorg though, the admins should focus first on the "mission statement" and enforcing that across mods esp (as opposed to the mods just expecting other teams to follow it... get off my back about my forum behavior just because I'm ED and don't you assholes dare threaten me for "forum behavior")

But I disagree that the staff only exists to 1) keep the server online and 2) support/encourage roleplay. I think there's a 3rd aspect, which is to find ways to improve the server and actively implement them? The whole implementing change thing has been a problem in the past. It still is a problem. You get all this great feedback, all these ideas, and then...nada. Don't have the drive or effort or fucks-to-give to carry through with implementing it. Or worse you get pushback from the staff, or even the specific group, which goes "Why should we change? blah blah we shouldn't have to, players are liars and wrong and there's nothing wrong with us" (legit facts has been said.) And sometimes the pushback on change comes from players, who think it's stupid or not efficient or what not, and thats okay, so long as there is actually an alternate solution thats feasible?

 

And I think actually working to improve the server is a really big part of things that needs to be addressed on all fronts; Mods needs to put more work in to improve the moderation of the server and their own methods of moderation (too quick to the gun, or too soft, or an uneven enforcement of rules all around which makes no sense), and all the teams need to put work in to improve their teams and processes, and that will reflect on the server and the community as a whole. (ex. Forum dept, event department, application dept [ok tbh our app i feel is too...lessthan, and I feel like the App dept has a 'lets just float along, we're goood enuff' attitude? idfk], wiki [team was a gr8 idea], lore [bigger and better stuff. Think application for EVENTS, not "how cool does this sound on paper", and do an EVEN AMOUNT, so that all the races have something, and so the event dept has lots of **** to pull from that is actually legitimate (as opposed to hornets or rabid dogs or whatever the hell)]

I sort of went off on a tangent there but in general the server needs to improve on literally all aspects, departments, teams and fronts. The question is, as the head honchos and enforcers; Will the Admins be capable of making that happen, and being the hardasses they kind of need to be to force people off their asses to improve? The main 'direction' the server needs, right now, imo, is the leadership of people actually capable of getting others to get to work...and removing them when they won't, no ifs ands or butts about it.

[TeaLulu 1783]

23 minutes ago, Song Druid said:

This in my opinion doesn't address the abhorrent actions of administrators last night, who did not follow set guidelines for other moderators when issuing punishments, in some cases just handing them out without warning or any prior information.  

 

And when confronted about it in FM chat this is how they respond?

 

 

It just makes me even saltier.  I want to see a response from Fireheart.  I want to see him own up to his actions and I am sick of this baloney treatment of staff as if we don't have the right to give feedback on the forums.

tbh don't lie there is no set protocol for Forum mods to actually communicate with people or give them warnings. It is outright laughable and offensive you would imply that there is such, much less that the forum dept adheres to it on a regular basis, or that the forum dept lead actually is at all willing to listen to feedback or even justify the actions of his team in any logical or coherent way.

 

Not saying what happened with that was right, but don't act like there is something there is not and use that as the basis of your argument.

[Song Druid 1486]

2 minutes ago, TeaLulu said:

tbh don't lie there is no set protocol for Forum mods to actually communicate with people or give them warnings. It is outright laughable and offensive you would imply that there is such, much less that the forum dept adheres to it on a regular basis, or that the forum dept lead actually is at all willing to listen to feedback or even justify the actions of his team in any logical or coherent way.

You're wrong?

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.  Just a small snippet-

 

 

Also, there is a warning format that was recently implemented, in fact a lot of positive changes were implemented to the FMs which help solve a majority of the problems you constantly bleat about.  However you will not be satiated.  You will continue to be angry no matter what the FMs do, even if they re founded with entirely new members because a couple times the FM lead ignored your salty private messages where once again you proved you are incapable of submitting feedback in any appropriate capacity.  Sorry.

[DustyDune 241]

Thinking too much yet, feeling too little...

 

EDIT: This is a game where we all come to waste our time away from the real world. I do not see why when the community is unanimous in multiple things like removing the 1.9 combat timers that lag PVP where it is unbearable or many things within Nexus like skill grinding(Though I do know you are changing to a custom plugin different from Nexus so I brush over it). We are not machines and we do not want to be used just for our money. I realize these changes cannot happen overnight but come on when there is a 'temp' server to test things out and the community tells you that there are bugs then why would you release it ignoring the player base. Honestly you deserve this overall explosion from the community because treating everyone like children when most of us are near or adults is ridiculous. Talking to the community you pretend to care about so much with such a robotic tone with no sympathy is easily seen. Anyways I was very loose here in my points so bare with me and thank you for reading.

 

[AGP 3169]

Just now, Song Druid said:

-snip-

Do you want me to go screenshot all the rules that the forum mods don't regularly enforce? I can do that. Forum mods are inconsistent; don't lie to yourself and say they are.

 

3 minutes ago, TeaLulu said:

-snip-

Agreed with your goal #3; though change without a goal is pointless. Just because we should improve where we can doesn't mean we should just change things for the sake of saying we "improved" it. I think LotC would be quite strong if the staff paid more attention to job #2. Vailor seriously disappoints me because of the missed potential in creating rp hubs.

[Song Druid 1486]

I won't lie there were inconsistencies.  But the FM team has made huge changes in the past couple months to address these yet nobody acknowledges them.  I'm not some sheeple who believes the establishment is faultless, I believe my involvement with this entire administration debacle proves that, but credit where credit is due, folks.  Imcookiee has really put a lot of work into the FD and made a bunch of positive changes which were directly influenced by player feedback.

[John Ivory 4547]

1 minute ago, ChumpChump said:

I for one am happy to see change and the staff not being satisfied with the status quo! I appreciate the effort you guys put in trying to make the server better in what ways you think best. I think there could be better ways of dealing with all the 'feedback' but its definitely been a marked improvement from staff teams in the past!

 

Disappointed we won't get a summer map though :-( @poland

Wait is the map really not coming during the summer?

[TeaLulu 1783]

4 minutes ago, Song Druid said:

You're wrong?

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.  Just a small snippet-

 

 

Also, there is a warning format that was recently implemented, in fact a lot of positive changes were implemented to the FMs which help solve a majority of the problems you constantly bleat about.  However you will not be satiated.  You will continue to be angry no matter what the FMs do, even if they re founded with entirely new members because a couple times the FM lead ignored your salty private messages where once again you proved you are incapable of submitting feedback in any appropriate capacity.  Sorry.

Just because it is there does not mean the FM dept actually actively performs those duties or enforces those claimed standards nor protocol. I speak from experience and many others can back me up on this. Your insinuation I am "bleating" is offensive and derogatory.  I will be sated when your team is completely reorganized and undergoes complete renovations to fix the deep-seated cultural problems therein. 

 

I will post feedback in an "appropriate capacity" soon, if that satisfies you. That's quite enough of your offensive off-topic attempts to directly insult me by accusing me of "bleating".